Hey Neph... Doc... Help a guy out?
- Thread starter Okiewan
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- Jun 15, 2001
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Ivan, I was just asking right because that's the side his low back hurts on. Typically, Sciatica (which is nerve root compression of L5/S1 by herniated nucleus pulposus--disc) is associated with regional muscle spasm and low back pain as well. The nerve roots exiting @ L5/S1 (lumbar 5, sacral 1) control a dermatome and myotome corresponding with the hamstring, lateral and posterior calf, and lateral and plantar aspect of the foot. What you lose is ankle jerk reflexes (achilles reflex), plantar flexion of the ankle (standing on your toes), etc. I don't do MRI's unless someone has severe pain, or loss of motor function, since they're expensive, sensitive but very nonspecific (30% of healthy high school boys with no symptoms had abnormal MRI's of the back--including herniated discs :eek: ), and operations are reserved for people with serious neurological compromise and risk for further loss of function (rarely). Surgery can actually worsen outcome in a large percentage of cases. Steroids and marcaine injected into the foramen every 2 weeks for 3 shots works VERY well in a lot of cases. These are done by anesthesiologists/anesthetists (typically), and are fluoroscopy-guided.
There's a nephrologist @ Kansas University named 'Chonko' that used to play football for Woody Hayes in the day at Ohio State. He's about 6 and a half foot tall and 330 pounds. You wouldn't want him to do a rectal on ya' for sure (or anyone else for that matter :think: ).
There's a nephrologist @ Kansas University named 'Chonko' that used to play football for Woody Hayes in the day at Ohio State. He's about 6 and a half foot tall and 330 pounds. You wouldn't want him to do a rectal on ya' for sure (or anyone else for that matter :think: ).
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
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My step-father has had 2 operations on his back. I'd much rather stay away from that for sure. I'm almost positive my sciatica is just a part of all I've been through the past 6 weeks (especially since I had bad low back pain for weeks prior to the 4th). It is feeling better today and last night I could bend over.
Thanks again! Hopefully, I can return the favor one day.
Are you speaking from experience? :yeehaw: j/k
Ivan
- Thread starter
- #30
Is it colicky (does it come and go), like something squeezing, then letting off every few minutes or so?
No, it was like a steady rhytm ...
Where is the pain exactly? Is it closer to your rib margin (above), or closer to your pelvis (below)?
Below the ribs, like in the hip bone, but on the back.
Does it radiate?--does it move or start, say high and then shoot or move to your inguinal/groin region? Or does it stay put?
Same spot
Fevers?
Not that I'm aware of.
Burning with urination?
Nope.
Dark or bloody urine?
Nope.
Change in bowel habits? (Like new diarrhea or new constipation)
Nope.
Other than the muscle relaxant (good question, by the way--I'll get to that), what makes it better?
Nothing.
What makes it worse? (Like, does lying still make it worse, while getting up and moving around make it better?--Also, does bending/lifting make it worse, or no diff?)
No measurable diff.
What were you doing when you first noticed it?
Not really sure, it just sorta started :)
Do you have spastic/hard and painful paraspinous muscles (muscles running up and down your back immediately to either side of the spine)?
Nope.
Ever had a stone?
Nope.
Family history of stones?
Not that I know of.
Recent back injuries?
Nope.
Any pain shooting down the posterior part of your buttocks or back side of your leg on the right side?
Nope.
Any strength problems in that leg?
Nope.
Any numbness in your leg on the right?
Nope.
BTW; while I know it's there, it hasn't bothered me since taking the muscle relaxer at about 10 las night.
Quit hijacking my thread Ivan... get your own. :laugh:
No, it was like a steady rhytm ...
Where is the pain exactly? Is it closer to your rib margin (above), or closer to your pelvis (below)?
Below the ribs, like in the hip bone, but on the back.
Does it radiate?--does it move or start, say high and then shoot or move to your inguinal/groin region? Or does it stay put?
Same spot
Fevers?
Not that I'm aware of.
Burning with urination?
Nope.
Dark or bloody urine?
Nope.
Change in bowel habits? (Like new diarrhea or new constipation)
Nope.
Other than the muscle relaxant (good question, by the way--I'll get to that), what makes it better?
Nothing.
What makes it worse? (Like, does lying still make it worse, while getting up and moving around make it better?--Also, does bending/lifting make it worse, or no diff?)
No measurable diff.
What were you doing when you first noticed it?
Not really sure, it just sorta started :)
Do you have spastic/hard and painful paraspinous muscles (muscles running up and down your back immediately to either side of the spine)?
Nope.
Ever had a stone?
Nope.
Family history of stones?
Not that I know of.
Recent back injuries?
Nope.
Any pain shooting down the posterior part of your buttocks or back side of your leg on the right side?
Nope.
Any strength problems in that leg?
Nope.
Any numbness in your leg on the right?
Nope.
BTW; while I know it's there, it hasn't bothered me since taking the muscle relaxer at about 10 las night.
Quit hijacking my thread Ivan... get your own. :laugh:
- Jun 15, 2001
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Okie, if it hasn't bothered you since taking the flexeril or robaxin, skelaxin, etc. it's probably a minor strain issue. Our back muscles, multiple layers of them, are at a disadvantage from a 'frame geometry' standpoint and any off angle event can set up a series of events resulting in deep muscle spasm. The best thing in the whole world for that is having your wife freeze water in a styrofoam cup, peel off the top of the cup, and apply DIRECTLY (no barrier) over the area and move it around until the entire area is numb. This will block nerve conduction, resulting in a release on the muscle, which will then relax. You'll probably need to repeat that several times a day until it doesn't come back.
Get a 'care for the low back' type book or pamphlet, and do the exercises religiously. Weight loss is ideal, as it takes torsional forces off the axial spine. I broke my back in highschool (farm accident) and when I gain 5 or 10 pounds, my back starts killing me.
However, when you said rhythmic...what did you mean? Like at what frequency?
The answer to the question regarding whether or not a muscle relaxer could help something 'renal', and not just low back---probably not. eg, if you had a stone, and were passing it, a relaxer couldn't help significantly and could not alter its course, since they're designed to relax skeletal muscle, while smooth muscle is the kind of muscle inside those ureters responsible for moving the object down the tract.
Get a 'care for the low back' type book or pamphlet, and do the exercises religiously. Weight loss is ideal, as it takes torsional forces off the axial spine. I broke my back in highschool (farm accident) and when I gain 5 or 10 pounds, my back starts killing me.
However, when you said rhythmic...what did you mean? Like at what frequency?
The answer to the question regarding whether or not a muscle relaxer could help something 'renal', and not just low back---probably not. eg, if you had a stone, and were passing it, a relaxer couldn't help significantly and could not alter its course, since they're designed to relax skeletal muscle, while smooth muscle is the kind of muscle inside those ureters responsible for moving the object down the tract.
Fe_princess
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- Sep 7, 2001
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Hey Nephron, I was just diagnosed with a pinched sciatic nerve. I am taking perscription naproxon and doing prescribed stretching exercises from a PT.
My god, I swear it's worse. Walking more than 20 feet becomes so painful that I have to stop. My doctor suggested that I take Vicaden(sp?), but I don't want more drugs, just the pain to stop.
Do you think Icing is the answer to releasing the nerve from inflammed tissue?
My god, I swear it's worse. Walking more than 20 feet becomes so painful that I have to stop. My doctor suggested that I take Vicaden(sp?), but I don't want more drugs, just the pain to stop.
Do you think Icing is the answer to releasing the nerve from inflammed tissue?
- Jun 15, 2001
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Might help, depending on where the impingement is. If it's at the nerve root exit site @ the 'neuroforamen' (spine), it probably won't help much and a fluoroscopic guided steroid/marcaine shot x 3 or oral 'medrol dose pack' might help a little better.
If you feel like there's some pinpoint pain or trigger point sensitivity over the gluteus muscle (your BUTT ;) ), the ice might help there some.
Vicodin is just an opiate/narcotic and will only cover up the problem. However, what your doc may be trying to do is simply getting you through the painful phase of the thing until it goes away itself, in which case it's pretty tough to beat a good opiate for pain control.
Another possibility would be a misdiagnosis, and that's why things are worsening. ...never know.
If you feel like there's some pinpoint pain or trigger point sensitivity over the gluteus muscle (your BUTT ;) ), the ice might help there some.
Vicodin is just an opiate/narcotic and will only cover up the problem. However, what your doc may be trying to do is simply getting you through the painful phase of the thing until it goes away itself, in which case it's pretty tough to beat a good opiate for pain control.
Another possibility would be a misdiagnosis, and that's why things are worsening. ...never know.
Fe_princess
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- Sep 7, 2001
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Well, I wacked my lower back about 3 months ago, so with my symptoms, my doctor said it was classic sciatic nerve pinch. I called my PT and she said to stop the yoga strech(lying on my stomache and lifting myself by my hands) and to ice it. It's the worst in the morning. My entire foot, and backside of my leg go numb with sharp, pricking sensations. I haven't worked out in a week. Should I go work out? Will it loosen/strengthen my back or aggrevate the problem, thanks, FE
- Jun 15, 2001
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Wow, that sounds pretty damn ugly. You definitely don't want to work out right now. Those Yoga stretches will absolutely ruin you as well (in your current condition)--sounds certainly like you have a herniated disc. Bedrest was the rule in the old days, now---just resume 'normal' activity, do exercises that will 'stretch' the lumbar region and strengthen the abs (except situps). Get a low back book...they're everywhere. Here are some ideas in the meantime.
1) Lay flat on the floor, relax, and push (with your abs) your lumbar lordosis (that curvature in the small of your back) down flat against the floor three times a day, 10-20 reps (or more).
2) Lay flat""", pull one knee up gently with your arms to your chest, leaving the other leg straight. Hold it there. Ahhhhh...then do it with the other. Same reps. Same frequency. More if you can tolerate it.
3) Lay down, pull both your knees to your chest, roll up like a ball, and gently rock back and forth on your back. Oh yeah, baby. Stretch those zygapophyseal ligaments and muscles out...
4) Lay down, easy does it--some very 'unaggressive' crunches, starting with simply applying 'strain' on your abs without lifting your head or chest up. No situps.
5) Lots of NSAIDS (naproxen/ibuprofen/aspirin), rotate some Tylenol or some Vicodin in there.
6) No lifting over 10 pounds.
7) Lift with your back straight, and use only your legs.
8) If you're around children, don't pick them up.
9) NO manipulation (chiropractor) because you have freakin' radiculopathy. I can't stress that enough. It's ok to do it when you just have muscle spasm, but your case sounds like bonefide herniation of the disc on root.
10) 90/90 rest position as much as possible. Lay on your back, flat, and elevate your feet in such a way as to result in 90 degrees at the hip (perpendicular to your torso), and 90 degrees at your knees (calfs will be parallel with your torso)--eg, using a small kitchen table chair. You get the point.
11) Consider ultrasound therapy (through your physical therapist) or massage--now THAT feels good.
12) Sit in a small chair, bend gradually over until your chest is on your quads (differing degrees for different bra sizes, I'd guess ;) ), stretching your low back while touching your toes. Keep it relaxed.
13) Lay on your back, and elevate your leg to say, 90 degrees or so. Then throw a rope around the middle of your foot (laying across the arch). Keeping your leg there, and unbent, use your arms/hands and the rope to pull your leg gently towards your head, stretching the hamstrings, low back, calf muscles and Achilles.
14) Aquatic exercise
15) Chinning bar stretch--hang from a chin-up type of bar, relaxing your back muscles.
16) Keep the weight off.
Most importantly, if you lose bowel or bladder, or become weak in your leg...go in right away.
1) Lay flat on the floor, relax, and push (with your abs) your lumbar lordosis (that curvature in the small of your back) down flat against the floor three times a day, 10-20 reps (or more).
2) Lay flat""", pull one knee up gently with your arms to your chest, leaving the other leg straight. Hold it there. Ahhhhh...then do it with the other. Same reps. Same frequency. More if you can tolerate it.
3) Lay down, pull both your knees to your chest, roll up like a ball, and gently rock back and forth on your back. Oh yeah, baby. Stretch those zygapophyseal ligaments and muscles out...
4) Lay down, easy does it--some very 'unaggressive' crunches, starting with simply applying 'strain' on your abs without lifting your head or chest up. No situps.
5) Lots of NSAIDS (naproxen/ibuprofen/aspirin), rotate some Tylenol or some Vicodin in there.
6) No lifting over 10 pounds.
7) Lift with your back straight, and use only your legs.
8) If you're around children, don't pick them up.
9) NO manipulation (chiropractor) because you have freakin' radiculopathy. I can't stress that enough. It's ok to do it when you just have muscle spasm, but your case sounds like bonefide herniation of the disc on root.
10) 90/90 rest position as much as possible. Lay on your back, flat, and elevate your feet in such a way as to result in 90 degrees at the hip (perpendicular to your torso), and 90 degrees at your knees (calfs will be parallel with your torso)--eg, using a small kitchen table chair. You get the point.
11) Consider ultrasound therapy (through your physical therapist) or massage--now THAT feels good.
12) Sit in a small chair, bend gradually over until your chest is on your quads (differing degrees for different bra sizes, I'd guess ;) ), stretching your low back while touching your toes. Keep it relaxed.
13) Lay on your back, and elevate your leg to say, 90 degrees or so. Then throw a rope around the middle of your foot (laying across the arch). Keeping your leg there, and unbent, use your arms/hands and the rope to pull your leg gently towards your head, stretching the hamstrings, low back, calf muscles and Achilles.
14) Aquatic exercise
15) Chinning bar stretch--hang from a chin-up type of bar, relaxing your back muscles.
16) Keep the weight off.
Most importantly, if you lose bowel or bladder, or become weak in your leg...go in right away.
- Nov 22, 2000
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Senior KX Rider
Super Power AssClown
- Nov 9, 1999
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That looks horrible JP I would look into amputation if I had an infection like that growing on my shoulders :scream:
Hey JP thanks for the reminder that we are stuck with that infection in NY :scream: Just pray she doesn't run for prez :eek:
Neph, I do 1,2 &3 on your list and it really helps a lot. I only have muscle problems and it gets me back in shape in just a few days. Thanks for all the excellent advice.
Neph, I do 1,2 &3 on your list and it really helps a lot. I only have muscle problems and it gets me back in shape in just a few days. Thanks for all the excellent advice.
Fe_princess
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- Sep 7, 2001
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Thank you so much for all of your advice and information.
Maybe it hurts so much in the morning because I've been laying down all night. Someone told me that lying on my back was a bad idea. Really, the only relief I get is from lying on my side where I have the injury. The exercise that helps the most is the hamstring stretchers...
Maybe it hurts so much in the morning because I've been laying down all night. Someone told me that lying on my back was a bad idea. Really, the only relief I get is from lying on my side where I have the injury. The exercise that helps the most is the hamstring stretchers...
Yea that's what they doing for me. If the pain has been that long. It's a good Idea to see a good internal medicine doctor. My stone problem, the pain was staggering. But only last one or two days? Then it was gone, once I passed the stone. I did end up @ emergence both times.
