How do we become brand-loyal zealots?

CR Swade · Feb 12, 2002

This is question that I am throwing out there for discussion-and believe me I am just as guilty to an extent, but recent events kind of bring this topic into play. Keep in mind this is just food for thought-nothing that is drastically important in the grand scheme of things

How do average enthusiasts and participants become so entrenched in our brand loyalty as to boo and act poorly as if at a WWF event.

I don't boo or carry on as we've seen the past few years, but I do enjoy seeing my favorite brand win. Why is that? I don't mean a hill of beans to the execs @ Honda or HRC-but I enjoy seeing CR's win.

Is our own self-image that fragile that we have to see that brand success? Or are we living vicariously through the racers themselves-getting emotionally involved to elevate our sense of belonging to something maybe unobtainable?

Even more, what causes the casual fan to take up the bad-sportsmanship? I'd be willing to bet the booing for Ricky is about 98% brand related. I just don't get. Honda vs. Kawasaki, KTM vs. Big Four, Ford vs.Chevy (that ought to get a comment or two), Toro vs. Snapper...:confused: :)

Senior KX Rider · Feb 12, 2002

Brand means very little to me. I have owned Yamahas, Hondas, Kawasakis, and even a KTM:p . I like RC for his desire and determination. If more of the others applied themselves to the sport the way he does we would have much better racing. Don't matter to me what color he rides.

I like MC for his skill and finnesse onthe really technical tracks and for being the spokesman that he is for our sport. Don't care what color he rides.

I like LaRocco for his tenacity and toughness. He is not about to give an inch to anyone they have to take it. He has run the cycle of colors. Don't care what he rides.

I like KW because he makes it look so easy.:) How many brands has he ridden.

I could go on and on.

Every one on the track at a SX event is there because they have an amazing ability to get a motorcycle around a track in a hurry. I doubt it matters much to them what color they ride.

Maybe some of the brand fanatics are carryovers from the NASCAR Ford vs Chevy battles that have raged for years. The country is full of Ford haters Chevy Lovers and vice versa.

JimmyD2 · Feb 12, 2002

In my case, it is the same reason that I root for the Buckeyes, NY Jets, and Pittsburgh Pirates. They are my favorite teams! Just like Team Kawasaki is my favorite motorcycle racing team.

Why have a favorite team? The NY Jets (most likely) will always exist. Mark Gastineau wil not. ;) Team Green will always exist (I hope). Bubba will not. It gives me a sense of consistency and a sense of being a part of my favorite sport. I'm not sure how much fun it would be if I didn't care who won or if I had to decide yearly or weekly what player or rider to root for.

It's the feeling of being part of a team - even if it is only as a spectator! :eek:

Bob Brooks · Feb 12, 2002

Brand loyalty has always been a source of confusion for me too. I like all motorcycles...all the Jap brands and the European stuff. I just love dirt bikes and don't really care what color they are or where they are manufactured and designed. With that said, there are certain brands that tend to build motorcycles that suit my riding style better than others and so on. But I never get caught up in the "my brand of bike is better than yours" mentality or in rooting for or against riders because of the bike they're on.

Generally speaking, however, I suspect that the reason that many people become so rabid about their chosen brand is just a desire to belong, to be a part of an organization or team. It's the same reason people join clubs in high school and flock to fraternities and soroties in college. They like to belong to a group, to be part of a pack. That's my theory anyway, for whatever it's worth.

94ruck · Feb 12, 2002

woo hoo, go team ktm...wait a minute, whadayamean no KTM 250 riders, by god.Now what?
:confused:
Really, i have been followimg this sport for years and have seen larocco, windham, etc,etc on multi factory teams. i enjoy the competition and sit through the silly season watching who goes where. Maybe it is more like a soap opera(sport opera)?

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

I don't think the brand has much to do with it, it is all about the riders.

Yes, we get a kick out of a KTM win etc, but it is the riders that stand out.

DV, I bet has a lot of respect and admiration of the fans, but we boo him because he is French, not because he rides a Yamaha.

RC, got the boos, not because of Kawasaki or Honda, but for himself, he is the top dog, and gave the fans a reason to 'hate' him when he jumped ship (not for money), I can bet many of the fans who boo him, still think of him as a great rider, the underdog this year is Pastrana and he no doubt will get the cheers.

Yeah, there are some yobo fans out there, but most do know what's going on. I have not seen any 'Boo Now' or 'cheer now' signs at the races, so maybe the fans know something, and are just doing their thing.

Most fans will cheer the winner of a good hard fought race, which is how it should be. OK maybe if RC had won, he would have been booed, but only because of the TP incident (which being trackside, you do not have the benefit of slow motion replay, and TV commentary). I am sure that if the crowd knew that the move was legit, the emotions would not have run so high.

I don't know of anyone who gets really excited if a Honda wins, or is heart broken if the Suzuki loses (Patman may be an exception with KTM ;) )

CR Swade · Feb 12, 2002

Re: Re: How do we become brand-loyal zealots?

Originally posted by Truespode

Hey, lets get a little clarification here.

In WWF the crowd is SUPPOSED to boo. It isn't poor manners to boo in a WWF event. Booing is the crowds part of it all.

Comparing RC's reception to Kobe Bryant's reception at the all-star game is a little more realistic.

Ivan

Exactly Ivan-the crowd is supposed to boo at a WWF event. But how did we (I say we collectively) make the jaunt from WWF/Nascar event to SX and professional athelete- aka Kobe Bryant?

Could it be WWF and Nascar brand battles have lowered the bar in terms of public etiquette and we are now seeing the spill-over effects?

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

Could it be WWF and Nascar brand battles have lowered the bar in terms of public etiquette and we are now seeing the spill-over effects?

No, SX itself has lowered the bar, it is no longer just about racing, it is about the entertainment as well. The last SX I went to I was very entertained, fireworks, explosions, Mad Mike Jones, these SX promoters want to get the crowd involved. I don't think the booing has anything to do with etiquette, to me it is all part of the fun. I can bet you the spectator who booed DV or RC if given half a chance to meet the rider, get an autograph etc will do so without hesitation, and at the same time do so graciously.

Yeah, sorrta like the Kobe Bryant thing, very much so !

It's all about personalities, promotion, hype, and filling the arena seats. I don't see too many sad faces after an SX event. In basketball, you do have fans who go home losers, SX provides only winners. :cool:

Offroadr · Feb 12, 2002

hmmm I am STILL waiting for Team GasGas to rule SX, until then I refuse to root for another team....

should be any day now :confused:

Seriously I am a mixed bag, always been a Honda man, since I was 6. but don't have anyone to cheer for on Honda. I like Travis cause he is a good kid, still like Jeremy for all he has done.

Ohh for the days when Jer rode Hondas...

CR Swade · Feb 12, 2002

Originally posted by BunduBasher

No, SX itself has lowered the bar,

Yeah, sorrta like the Kobe Bryant thing, very much so !

It's all about personalities, promotion, hype, and filling the arena seats. I don't see too many sad faces after an SX event. In basketball, you do have fans who go home losers, SX provides only winners. :cool:

Which raises another question-as a "racer", can you enjoy an event where the guy/gal getting booed has spent there life to get to that point only to be booed out of the stadium b/c of a brand switch/winning too much/arrogant/pick your adjective?

Kobe has already stated that the booing "affected" him-it isn't right.

Has the fan mentality been dumbed down or turned more rabid (WWF-style)?

Is that how we fill seats? And if it is-do you want to be part of it. For me, booing isn't racing. Racing is racing.

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

For me, SX is still racing

Which is probably why most SX fans love the sport, besides all the hooplah, the racing itself is still genuine, WWF is all a farce, SX provides the best of both worlds, lots of crowd involvement, and some really good racing, couldn't ask for anything more.

Fill those seats, add music, fireworks, lasers etc, and top it all of with some real genuine out of the box, bar to bar racing, makes for an evenings entertainment well worth the money. Having Mad Mike Jones there and the KTM (who let the dogs out) mini racers is like icing on the cake.

Gotta admit, a sold out SX stadium is quite an experience.

Senior KX Rider · Feb 12, 2002

Both good points Ivan.:)

CR Swade · Feb 12, 2002

Excellent discussion so far, that is why I wanted to keep it here in the SX forum. No flames needed:)

slickpuss · Feb 12, 2002

Cr swade, I believe that it has just come down to fact that you have tried the rest and now know what is the best and cheer it on.....CR's and Fords!!!

Man I love to stir it up. Just messing with people.

But really there the best.
:D :p

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

Which raises another question-as a "racer", can you enjoy an event where the guy/gal getting booed has spent there life to get to that point only to be booed out of the stadium b/c of a brand switch/winning too much/arrogant/pick your adjective?

Should it really matter, when the hammer goes down, it is all about racing. The side show is pure entertainment. Would it make a difference if the crowd cheered wildly for every rider. The booing does not seem to affect the top riders, both RC and DV battled for the win. I think those guys who make the final event are pretty secure in their abilities and confidence, I don't think the crowd itself can do too much to mess with their heads. Why get upset if the guy next to you boos your most favored rider. You cheer, they boo, have some fun, smile, have a laugh, and in the end enjoy your evening out.

I think we may in some way be too sensitive and get a little upset when booing takes place. There is no need to be, take it for what it is, entertainment, enjoy the moment, cheer wildly for your guy, boo their guy, give the riders a warm round of applause when you leave, buy a T-shirt, get a cap, and get your ticket for the next SX round. No need to take any of it personally.

I can bet in reality we all care a great deal about our riders, if RC were to have a huge crash, get badly hurt, everyone without exception would be concerned for the guy.

Ivan, I have grown up with sports that boo, soccer, rugby, and it has little or nothing to do with etiquette or bad taste. Watch some of the guys who boo or cheer wildly, and you will see a huge smile on their face. Rugby is a fun game, and when SA played the USA last year in Houston there was much booing and taunting by the SA fans, at first the USA supporters were a bit stunned, but by the end of it were going at it with gusto too. We had a lot of fun, all of us, and no one took it personally. And at the end, both teams were given a huge standing ovation. It was all pretty neat ! Keep it in perspective, and you can have a lot of fun as well.

slickpuss · Feb 12, 2002

I think if any of us were in that race with ricky, pastrana, or mcgrath, the boos would turn to laughter. Anyone who rides has to have a serious respect for any pro out there, no matter what he rides or what sponsers he has. I guess some people get caught up in the glam of the "Pace Supercross" and forget what its really about, the best motocross racers in the world battling it out.

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

I don't think it has a place in sports or any form of competition.

Ivan, as you say, this your opinion, and the guy sitting next to you at the SX arena has no idea how you feel, and pretty much doesn't care anyway. Any professional sport is fair game to me.

Now here is a scenario, South Africa had a bad boy rugby player named James Small, he was very popular with the fans back home, was quite a character, but definitely played by his own rules. On a tour to Australia he received his fair share of boos, and on one occasion, he did something wrong, back chatted the ref, and was the first South African ever to be sent from the field. The Aussie crowd went wild, and booed James mercilessly. I thought it to be one of the funnest and funniest moments in international rugby history. OK, the sending off was bad, but the crowd involvement was phenomenal, I can bet James will never forget that moment, and can also bet that he will give you a beaming smile when recalling that moment. I can also bet that every single one of those Aussies would have been pleased as punch if they had the opportunity to meet James and get his autograph.

As you say, it is what you grow up with, the Seniors among us, may differ on this, and to them it is disrespectful. To me, how you relate to the player/rider one to one, or in a more intimate setting, will determine if you are respectful or not. Walk up to RC and spit in his eye and I will be the first to sort you out, have a hearty boo in the stands, and you are welcome to it. I think the riders probably see it this way as well.

OK, now to find a seat behind Senior KX Rider and trueSpode at the next SX event :p

CR Swade · Feb 12, 2002

Bundu, the booing doesn't bother me personally, it bothers me from an emphatic point of view. In other words, I worry about how it affects not any one rider/competitor but any rider/competitor. So I guess it does bother me personally.:confused: The lust to be entertained has carried over into all of our sports-and not improving it I might add. I agree the "show" is more enjoyable, but what are the long-term effects of this frenzy?

What will be the accepted norm for atheletes to endure in 50 years? 500 years? Death if they lose? Don't laugh or scoff it off-it's already been done 2000 years ago.

Do I think this should be compared to gladiators in the colliseum, of course not. But soccer is a great case-in-point in terms of modern day mob-rule mentality.Where do you draw the line? I for one feel the essence of the sport is cheapened when made to appeal to the masses. Just my opinion.

Slickpuss, that was freakin eerie...you been sortin through my mail-what with the CR and Ford thing? :confused:

slickpuss · Feb 12, 2002

No i havent, great minds just think alike.

BunduBasher · Feb 12, 2002

but what are the long-term effects of this frenzy?

What will be the accepted norm for atheletes to endure in 50 years?

Good point, which is why we have to keep perspective, the last thing I want to see is fans throwing beer cans or rioting in the streets.

This has a lot to do with society in general, emphasize the fun aspect and keep it entertainment. In most of the soccer loving/playing counties of the world the fans/spectators love the sport/players etc, and do not riot or get out of control. Those few that do, really ruin it for the sport.

I don't see SX ever going this way.

BTW, we had some streakers at the USA/SA rugby game, and the whole event and atmosphere was one of fun. Now for the Americans it is almost frightening, do that at a baseball game and you are in serious trouble. Do that at a cricket or rugby game and it is all part of the sport/entertainment. Maybe (some) Americans are just a bit more uptight about these things !

CR Swade · Feb 13, 2002

Originally posted by BunduBasher

Good point, which is why we have to keep perspective, the last thing I want to see is fans throwing beer cans or rioting in the streets.

This has a lot to do with society in general, emphasize the fun aspect and keep it entertainment. In most of the soccer loving/playing counties of the world the fans/spectators love the sport/players etc, and do not riot or get out of control. Those few that do, really ruin it for the sport.

I don't see SX ever going this way.

Good morning Bundu! Ahh, perspective. I agree. Are we seeing the bottles being thrown in disapproval? Yes. Small scale riots, fights, and fans beating down other fans, coaches , refs? Yes. In fact we witnessed a coachs' death this past year when the world seemed to get a much meaner. Without straying to far from the original question-how does this affect the future of our sport?

SX to me seems to have lost its innocence and is completely at the whims of the promoters-who seem to appeal directly to the lowest common denominator in WWF/Nascar fan (a general term-not all WWF/Nascar fans are intended). These are the fans , not the only ones I might add, that seem to have a hard time keeping perspective. Is our sport better off as a big machine, or has the glam ruined what endeared true racers to the true grit racing of the 70's and early 80's. Now before we get the howls of disapproval, yes the racers now race just as hard and intense as then-it's just that inviting everyone to the party has made it all seem a little ridiculous now.

Are you sure SX isn't headed down the same road?

94ruck · Feb 13, 2002

Food for thought:
Wasn't the objective of supercross to fill a stadium full of spectators and introduce more people to motocycling?
How do you choose a selective audience...I know the opera attracts a certain type of spectator and motorsports attract others?
I remember Mac being booed in 1996 throughout the season, the same with jef Gordon..for some reason when someone dominates he becomes the anti hero, but did that detract others from moving up in this sport?
Does the sale of alcohol impact crowd reactions?
I am not choosing sides but I think supercross is more popular than ever. From my standpoint that may not be especially good for me as i find my riding areas congested with Joe Local beer swillin' atv riders and wannbe motoheads. But it has helped tha machinery get better and the dealerships are alive with business.
Again food for the brain-don't choke on it!

CR Swade · Feb 13, 2002

Now we're getting somewhere. Excellent points Kevin. :)

Psst...btw, Jason, Pat and I are going to try to ride Sunday. I understand you guys did the Chadwick run afterall last Sunday. I'll have to get in on that next time...I got lazy.

94ruck · Feb 13, 2002

A couple of buddies and i cruised down early Sunday and got some hours riding(about 5 hours )Only got 45-50 miles ..one of crew fell down and cried for mommy! Seriously, i think he bruised his ribs..said he would be ready to ride lebanon.
Are you doing the Missouri series(the whole THANG?).

CR Swade · Feb 13, 2002

Yeah, it's the only way a mid-pack guy like myself can garner some points:confused: After being hurt last year and only getting to do a few events complete, I really want to hit them all. My comfort level on the bike is finally coming back.

I really want to get some seat time in before Chadwick-that place can just tear a guy/gal or bike right on up.

How do we become brand-loyal zealots?

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