How to motivate ungrateful son.

[stormer94]

Not sure what to do, so looking to my dirt riding brothers to maybe offer up some ideas.

Here's the scoop. I'm like most of the parents on these forums. I enjoy riding and would like my children to also enjoy it if possible. I don't pressure, and I hope we have fun when we ride. When it comes to toys, I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy things that I want for myself and the family. With the only real concern being is this the right bike or not. I'm fortunate to not have to comprimise if I don't want to.

Lately, my 13 year old just bitches about everything. He USED TO have about the best of everything (I've been nipping that in the bud over the last year). The wife and I started to notice that his stuff was always much nicer than all his buddies, and he'd still gripe. I'm setting the ground for a question or two, this is leading somewhere, I promise. For example, he's got about $1000 20" ramp/vert bike, and he bitches that it's hard to pedal (I ride it all over just to check, and I don't see the problem...) I see his friends on $90 walmart bikes, and they ride all over and are QUITE happy and never bitch. He wanted to play guitar, I hooked him up with a first call studio musician as a teacher. He decided that it was hurting his school work (his words not mine), and that was after he had 4 lessons, and he wanted to quit, so we let him (much to my irritation). (Don't want to be like those 50 rider parents that go over the edge so far you want to pop them in the nose.) There are a million similar things to that bike story. He griped that his TTR125 didn't have any suspension and he would occiasionally hurt his arm or some non-provable thing. Mind you, he's got maybe 10 tanks of riding experience in his whole life...and he thinks he's Bubba. Anyway we get him a KX100 which is a kick-butt bike (in every way) compared to a TTR125. When we first would ride he would gripe that it didn't have any power, and he'd stall it on hills that were so flat, you could push the bike to the top. I'd show him how to do it, be patient, etc... and he'd whine... I'd even ride the bike show him what to listen for and how to do it. Gripe, gripe, gripe... You know how it is, you wanna KILL 'EM!!! The whiney little ungrateful buggers. My first dirt bike was a CL100 street bike with a knobby tire on the back. I paid for it myself and was dang grateful to have a bike.

He brings an MX mag on our last trip, we come home, and he decides he has to have a helmet with flames on it... I asked why is that, you just got a new helmet, and to top it off, you never ride. So we get home and he decides he wants to ride. I don't like him to ride by himself for 2 reasons. One, he's not that good. Two, if he gets hurt about a mile from the house, how would we ever find him??? (we live on the edge of town, with nice trails everywhere.) I'm hurt, so I can't ride.

I tell him if he wants to ride, suit up and have some fun, but stay with a half mile of the house so we can find him. He's back in 5 minutes... It's boring to ride, there's no berms or anything...yadda...yadda I've already been on these trails already. I wanted to kill him. I keep my cool. Personally I can have fun ALL DAY on a flat figure 8 track just trying get in ONE or TWO good corners back to back. Or practicing wheelies, stoppies, you name it (I don't have to tell you guys). I hurt my knee about a month ago and haven't ridden since, I'm JONES'n so bad I can't take it, I wanna ride!!!

Here's the Question. First, I know we spoiled him, and set this all in motion maybe 5-6 years ago. He's a good kid, and everybody likes him and so do his friends (at least for now), so he's not an ass, but I can see the potential is there, and his grades are good. He wanted a $3000 MTN bike for his birthday... he didn't get it. His behavior didn't warrant it, and I would have gotten it for him if certain criteria had been met... (like spend some TIME on the old one FIRST!!!)

What I really want to do is tell him, "LOOK BUB, why don't I sell that dirtbike of yours that is SO BORING, and put that money toward finishing the inside of the garage!!!" The problem is that I would like him to learn to ride, enjoy it, stop whining about what he doesn't have, realize he is NOT McGrath, and have some fun learing how to be a good rider, instead of THINKING he is a good rider. It seems to me that taking away the bike would be completely counter to what I want to occur. And I know if I did it, he would say, "whatever.. who cares". And that would be the end of it.

How do I teach him to be more grateful, and get him to ride more? Courtesy of video games he thinks he's McGrath, and he has very little if any actual skill. I try and point out that people he knows in his grade would KILL to have the setup he has. The kid we sold his old bike to rides every day, and has already worn out 2 rear tires this summer. My son has not drained so much as 2 tanks, and figures he knows it all, and is a MUCH better rider. (shaking my head in disgust).

School is coming up in a month, and we've talked about sports and what not. What about band, "nah", Football, "nah", Golf, "nah"... My 9 year old daughter, no problem. She wants to be in gymnastices, play basketball, volleyball, golf, you name it she's there to do it. So I know it's not completely us. She has expressed less interest in riding, and I figure that seems okay, as she has PLENTY of other things to do, all of them are fine with me.

How do I correct my sons behavior? When he gets lippy I want to tell him, "Buddy, you suck, and have no riding talent". Because frankly, he's not good and has no riding talent, 10 tanks of gas does not qualify you as "good"... But I don't want to break his spirit either. Video games, 24/7.

Why don't you go out and ride bicycle with your friends, "it's too hot"... "my bike sucks"... "there's no where to ride"... "It's to windy"... AAAAAHHHHHHHHHRRRGGGG!!!! what do I do? Our other child, no problem.

Thanks for reading,
Bob

 

[SpeedyManiac]

If he wants something, make him work for it. When he comes up to you asking for a new mountain bike, say okay, if you pay half, I'll pay half. It will save you money and he will learn that things are expensive. Also, spend time with him teaching him proper riding technique, maybe enroll him in a MX school.
One question, did he used to be involved with everything and anything? He may be getting burnt out and just want to relax. I definitely think that if you make him start paying for stuff, he might appreciate it a lot more. Stop spoiling him so much, I think it will help.

 

[stormer94]

Speedy,

He's never been really motivated. I started that exact thing about a year ago with the "You pay half, we'll pay half". What it's done is make him decide he doesn't really need whatever it was, not "I need to get to work"...

I try and show him technique, but he won't listen. What's funny though is that an MX buddy of mine can tell him and he listens more, but doesn't feel the need to pay it much mind, because he already knows everything. My buddies kids won't listen to him either, but will kind of listen if I tell them the same things or offer advise on how to ride.

He's smart and knows how to work the system. Like when I first started showing him how to climb hills. I'm not talking death defying acts of gravity here, but hills you could push the bike up if it were not running. He lays on me, "but you told me not to do things I'm not comfortable with them... don't you want me to be safe??" He knows how to use the system... So how do you reply to that??? I wanted to knock him down and roost him... Instead, I told him hills are part of riding, if he doesn't get the hang of even modest hills, there is almost no where to ride here. "well then I won't ride"... insert mental image of me wanting to knock him down and roost him again...

 

[mx547]

Originally posted by stormer94
I wanted to knock him down and roost him...

i know that feeling (see my daughter is growing up post). :eek:

 

[crkid]

Sounds like you got it bad with this situation. Speedy's advice seemed to be the best, but being 13, does he have any way of making money (not allowance)? If he was old enough to get a job and had money I would think he would be more inclined to use it. My parents did the "you pay half" idea on me before I had a job and I never had money so I couldn't buy anything. Me, still being a teenager can say that I was a lot more screwy when I was that age than I am now (not saying I'm not screwy now, just less). Sorry to have to tell you this, but not coming from a parent my best advice would be to wait it out and try to get him to land himself a job. You said he didn't used to be like this, hopefully he'll snap out of it soon........or you'll snap his neck :eek:

That's the best advice I could put together, hope it helps in some way.

 

[flyfishdoc]

Im 15... my dad tells me I suck every now and then... haha... it motivates me. That kid needs to wake up. Knock him down AND roost him!

 

[JMD]

I have struggled with the same thing, with three sons. And the thing you need to remember is that your job is to raise a decent human being, not to raise a riding buddy. You need to teach him to be accountable for his actions, and that he must earn everything he gets. If that means that he won't be going riding as much, because he hasn't earned it, or because he doesn't want to ride badly enough to do what's necessary, then so be it; you'll have to find someone else to ride with. It's more important to equip him for success and happiness in life than to teach him to ride. As it turns out, one of my sons won't do the work to go riding, so he doesn't go; another likes it enough to go every once in a while, and my youngest is almost as crazy for riding as I was at that age, and he'll do almost anything to ride. But there have been long periods where I have grounded him for grades and behavior, and I'd do it again if he screws up. You have to be ruthless, and you have to be willing to sacrifice your own desires as well. It's difficult, but rewarding. At 13, he's plenty young enough to be straightened out. Good luck.

 

[KWJams]

Stormer,
Right now the chemistry in his brain is making him whacked out -aka- puberty. :eek:
We raised three boys and not a single one turned out the way I wanted.
They are all great boys/young men and I am proud of each of them,
But they all have developed their own interests.
We all love motorcycles and riding, but only one of them enjoys making the commitment to race like I do.
Think I could ever get them out in the garage to do any wrenching--------LOL. :)
I taught them real young to not ever say the words---I'm bored. They knew I would find something for them to do. ;)
It's hard to remember some times that they are just our kids and not our Buddies.

:( We have been empty nesters now for two years with the closest on living 85 miles away.
This has been the toughest two years of my life. No kidding!

 

[stormer94]

JMD,

Yea, I tend to agree, but at this point I'm not equiping him for anything, and neither is he. I may paint a grimmer picture than it is, but I'm just chapped and confused.

It was my rationale that riding would be 10 times better than sitting in front of the TV all day playing video games. At least get some sun and some exercise, learn a skill, ANYTHING! Why pretend to be Ricky Carmichael in a video game when you could actually ride instead!?

I can't help but think if we don't eventually push him to do something, he won't ever do ANYTHING.

 

[YZracer04]

bob, why dont you come riding with me and my dad, you and randon could have sum fun at one of the local riding spots. theres a nice beginner hill and some harder ones just across a road. and there are some easy jumps and berms too.

 

[stormer94]

YZracer04,

What are you doing up so late??? ;) We were talking about coming over this weekend. Is the track ridable? I've got some buddies that want to roost!

I'm still healing my knee from when your dad came over and we rode all day in the rain... (that sucked) blew my fork seals with grass and crud... and then my KNEE!!! :scream: I can ride, but not hard, and not for very long.

 

[YZracer04]

i was out at the track yesterday oops i mean saturday, its monday now. It was pretty rough (lots of bumps and holes) but it was still fun. we will be in crosby on sunday racing, so we probably wont get to ride saturday. :(
But to answer your question about why im up? well i guess i dont really know the answer to that ;) :think:

 

[326mx]

Well my dad said I used to have this problem and he said what fixed it with me was getting rid of alot of toys and getting me the one I wanted for 11 odd years.... hence I got my dirtbike. But now in order to go riding I have to pay for all gas... car and bike. Any parts needed I buy. It motivates me plenty.

But in your case I would take things away. Sort of randomly take things without his consent or knowledge. But don't get rid of them.... take them to a storage place or a office. Then he will realize what he had when he becomes truly bored. Let him know then that you still have the items. Then give them back discreetly and see if he uses them. Then take em all away again. Might work who knows?

 

[Chili]

I would hesitate to offer advice on his behavior but as for his riding ego and thinking he's all that and a bag of chips on a bike I found that enrolling my son in a local racing school was very humbling for him when the experienced racers were blowing by him on their sx65's :) . Another aspect that I found helped my son's riding alot this year has been riding with one of his buddies instead of with me, he never expects to keep up with me which is sad as I'm a fat spode but he thinks I could hang with RC for a few laps LOL but when his buddy rides with him it is a constant race no matter where they are they want to beat each other to the next turn, back to the van for gas etc. not much for assistance for you but figured I'd add my .02 worth.

Best of luck!

 

[linusb]

Sounds to me like he isn't really that interested in riding a dirt bike, and that he hasn't really found what he is interested in. I know I would whine to my mom a lot about being bored when I was a kid. I don't know why kids do that, but I was a bit spoiled too.

I'm sure he knows he isn't too good at riding the dirt bike and telling him he sucks won't help. He portrays himself to be McGrath-like because he hopes to impress you, something he may think he is not able to do, because either:

a) He just isn't that interested in riding
b) He thinks he doesn't have the talent.

He probably wants to portray the dirtbiking image (with the flashy helmet and fast bike) because it is cool.

My advice is to discipline him how you see fit when he becomes whiney. It sounds like he is trying to explore different interests and eventually will find something that he really likes. Support any new interests but I wouldn't buy him the best equipment right off the bat. Part of the excitement of a hobby or recreational activity is the anticipation of getting something better than what you have now. If you start with the best, it's hard to get excited about anything else.

 

[yzeater]

Let me give my comments. I'm a 15 year old boy, and I kinda know what your son is going through. I'm kinda spoiled, but I'm working to get over that (i.e. I learned to drive in a Mercedes). Here are some of the biggest hints I have for raising kids. First, never say "you suck". Absolutely never. Use positive comments, and use them a lot, but not to the point that your son starts giving you weird looks. Never say "you suck". You could say 80 good comments in a week, but then that one negative one would void all the others. Your son will think to himself that you're cutting him down just when he starts to listen to you. It's probably a better idea not to say anything to your son than to say 100 nice things and 2 bad things. It's called positive reinforcement.
Next, set consequences. There are things that he wants from you. For example, he probably wants you to drive him to the movies to be with friends. You've got things that you want too. You want him to listen to you and respect you. It's a good idea to set up a system where if he fufills your needs, you'll fufill his. For example, if he doesn't do something (possibly eat dinner with the family?), you won't take him to the movies. The things that you need and he needs should both be very concrete ideas. By that I mean don't set qualitative goals (be nice to me), set quantitative goals (don't cuss at me). If that means you never wash his clothes or make him dinner again in your life, so be it. Present this idea not in response to something he just did, but as something that people need to do to make relationships work right.
Bond. This may be a little tricky to pull off, but it's worth it. Do things with your son that make memories. For example, get him up at 4 AM some morning and go rent a fishing boat, or make a donut run. Do something out of the ordinary that makes a special connection between the two of you.
Traditions. It's always good to have traditions. They don't have to be big ones, just little things that makes life special. For example, every Friday my dad and I go to Starbucks for an hour. Or every time we open a can of peanut butter, we take the first bite of the smooth stuff off the top with a knife. Just little things like that actually go a long way.
Deal with the money issue. Here's what were doing now. Everything I do with the family (vacations, family movies...) my dad pays for. Everything I do with friends or by myself (dirt biking) I pay for. I have certain jobs that I have to do for nothing like emptying the dishwasher or cleaning my room, and then there are other jobs like washing cars or mowing the grass that I get payed for. That really makes me work to be able to buy stuff I want.
Lastly, love him. I'm not a father, but my dad is, and he tries to explain what it's like sometimes to me. He says that he'd do anything for me, and he loves me more than I will understand until I have children of my own. Truely become a man who loves to see his child grow up, and try to ignore the small stuff, realize that to some degree he's just a kid. One more thing. Time is limited. You should try to make this the greatest summer ever for your family, but realize that life isn't certain. You'll never know if this will be your last summer ever with the family.
Hope this helps
-Stephen

 

[RM_guy]

I have to say that yzeater realy hit the nail on the head.

All I can add is that you have to follow through with what ever you do. If you say the consequences are such and such if he doesn't live up to his responsibilities, don't back down if he doesn't deliver. He has to know you mean business. Your a father first, then a friend.

 

[linusb]

YZEater - That was a touching commentary on the relationship you have with your dad. I'm sure he's very proud of you.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by RM_guy
All I can add is that you have to follow through with what ever you do. If you say the consequences are such and such if he doesn't live up to his responsibilities, don't back down if he doesn't deliver. He has to know you mean business. Your a father first, then a friend.

I would agree with this post wholeheartedly,one of the worst parenting mistakes is to back down on your consequences and end up losing credibility with your son.
I work in the security industry and the first piece of advice I got was never make a threat/ultimatum/set of consequences that you aren't prepared to follow through on as your limits will be tested.

 

[Rulon]

A few things I would ad as the father of 4 sons is –

Lavish your son in praise for what he tries new, gives his best effort, and excels at naturally. Never let him quit something he's agreed to. (Like the guitar lessons) Make it known that he "has" to take them for 6 month's whatever if he really wants em.

If you love your son consistently discipline them, he wants and needs it. My sons still "test" dad, they find security in it. Don't threaten anything your not willing to do. A smart child will see through this a mile away. The next time he says I can't ride the hill dad. Say fine, load up and go home. No questions, no lectures. Lock up the bike and tell him he can't ride again until he's willing to learn properly. When he's ready to ride again tell him how much you love him, respect him and how proud of him you are. BTW young boys this age KNOW EVERYTHING and YOU are STOOPID because you are DAD... Pay an older boy, who he looks up to, to give him lessons? (A word to the wise never try to teach someone you love to do "anything" difficult. Unless you have the patience of a saint. You'll probably do more harm than good. You may "teach" them to ride, but you may also teach them "hate" riding as well)

Make him earn his toys, nicer than average clothes etc. (example) Give him 300 bucks or whatever for school clothes and tell to guy buy em. He'll soon learn the value of money. If he wants the "phat" stuff he'll have pay the extra himself, because he can only get one pair of shoes and jeans instead of enough clothes for the year. Now he knows why dad wears Wal-Mart jeans and not Ralph Lauren. Give him $150.00 for the Wal-Mart bike and if he wants something better let him pay for it.

Put a lock on the video games and limit him to how much he can play per day, week whatever. It seems as though you son like many others is finding an escape in the game and not "dealing" with "reality". He may never learn this if you don’t put a stop it now.

Young men NEED responsibilities; give him them WITH consequences. Like cleaning his room, taking out the trash, cleaning out the garage. All "without" being told or reminded to do it. You don't clean your room, no allowance. Don't do it two days in a row your grounded for a week. etc. These build character and are “real” world experience. You would get fired if you didn’t do your job. Or loose your customers if you were are self employed.

Last but not least if you have made mistake with your son. ADMIT IT. Humble yourself before him and tell him the mistakes you've made and ask him for forgiveness. If your son still refuses to appreciate what he has in his KX100 make him pay you back for it. Or since it's yours technically. give it to someone who's really in need. Place an ad in the paper. Free KX100 to a needy, deserving child. Make them write a 200 word essay on why they want, need, and deserve this bike. Make your son read them all, choice the deserving child and make him deliver it to them. When he realizes how hard other children have had to work, what they have to go without, and when he see's joy in the other child’s eyes he'll have a much better grasp what he really had to begin with. Understand that telling a child "you should be lucky to have what you have", doesn't mean diddly squat to a 13 year old know it all. All be it this may be an expensive lesson for you personally, but what is your child future worth to you? And what will you teach your son about graciousness and generosity. Heck if you want a tax right off, call the local boys and girls club and do your contest through them. At no time in this should you humiliate your son. Let your son be the "hero" to the other child. (P.S. Yes this really works just ask my dad. It wasn't a motorcycle but something I didn't appreciate and another child in our church really did. I learned from watching the joy that this child found in what I thought "sucked" just how wrong I was. Plus when I wanted another one I had to pay for it. I appreciated and took much better care of it.)

 

[javo]

First, In response to YZEATER;
Holy crap!.. Im 27, have a degree and I have never used the word "quantitative" . Im really impressed with your vocabulary.

Second in response to STORMER94;
I am a father (not as experienced as you though) but I do have lots of friends that have children your sons age and frequently receive advice from them and they confide in me as well. So take this or leave it, it's only advice.
To help get your son excited about riding my suggestion would be to enroll him in a class or send him out with a buddy of yours for a few hours. Maybe go out with a group and have your buddy ask him "Hey Follow Me" and you go get lost for a couple of hours so it doesnt appear as though your forcing learning time with the buddy. It's hard to explain but learning from Mom / Dad or someone really close can be a beating because they are embarrased when they fail in front of you. No matter how many times you say "It's ok we've all been there" it still crushes them. For example, I took my wife snow skiing for the first time a couple of years ago me and some close friends tried to teach her for about 6 hours. We were ready to strangle each other. She wasnt having any fun at all and was ready to sit in the lodge all week. I gave up trying to teach her and purchased a private instructor for her and in 1 hour she was zooming down the mountain. After that 1 or 2 hours with the instructor she was excited about the rest of the week and the fun she would have. I'm not sure why it's difficult to learn from someone close, well on second thought I guess it comes down to pride. If your a real prideful person, theres nothing as painful as being humbled. ( I know this from experience) Also theres no substitute for competent instruction.
When the two of you are out riding, my suggestion is "Let Him Ride" don't try to teach him or coach him in any way.. "Just Ride" He will get excited if he's interested. But, be prepared if he's not interested. It took me a while to figure out what I was interested in as well. I bounced around from activity to activity just like him, never really sticking to one. But when he finds that one that tears at his heart... WATCH OUT. There will be no stopping him. Fortunately mine was dirtbikes. His may be chess. Either way support him. Next time you go riding, dont tell him. When he sees you loading the truck, he'll ask "What are you doing Dad?" and tell him. If he asks to go "GREAT" bring him. If not you go and have fun, but make sure you do something with him. Race him on the Playstation or something like that. Something you know he enjoys.
I know I've kinda rambled here, but fact of the matter is you really can't make him love what you want him to love.
Lastly:
Dont think your a bad parent because you give to your son. We all would if were were in your position. Don't think the kids on the Wal-Mart specials dont go home and gripe / complain to their parents as well. I guarantee your boy doesn't complain when your not around. Every kid gripes in some way, if it's really bad I'd put it all (Motorcycles, Bikes, Game consoles) on Ebay until he looses the attitude. Sometihng that might help him to see just how fortunate he is, is to volunteer as a family. My family does volunteer work for HOPE WorldWide www.hopeww.org We will go out to low income parts of the city and pass out information on how to get low cost or no cost health insurance, or we go to a house that needs a lot of work and we clean and paint it. Stuff like that, he will see how much he has and how he should be grateful. You will too. I take my 3yr old son with me when we do stuff for HOPE. He's 3 and he knows how lucky he is. I highly recomend this for the entrire family.

Theres my two cents.. Take 'em or leave 'em.

Take care and God Bless,
Jason

 

[KTMKyd]

Well, I really want a 2003 kx125, and I'm basically paying for all of it :debil:
I have to sell my current bike, plus get about $2400 by the end of the year, to top it off, my mom won't let me get a job, but I have to pay for this, kinda weird, huh? I kinda hope my parents will pitch in a little, or maybe pay the rest of what I lack at the end of the year, I won't mind paying them back when I get the money, it's just kinda hard to get that kind of money when you don't have a job :confused:

I have a friend that's kinda like your son, but not quite as bad...... drives me nuts, and he will never admit that basically all he ever does is whine... don't really know what to tell you, I guess sometimes you just gotta say no, and make no compromises no matter how much he begs whines and bitches. If you give in then he thinks you have a weakness, and actually, he's right....

 

[The Josh]

sell the bike, bmx, mtn bike, latest greatest video game system and make him work to get them, my parents could not afford to buy me new bikes and new gear but what they gave me instead was a good work ethic...

 

[jharmon]

I would sell his bike to one of his friends at a dirt cheap price. If he is constantly bitching about riding or any other sports, sign him up for Ballet. Or worse, soccer!

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Oh yeah, stormer94, if you're ever over in washington or BC, tell me. We could go for a ride and I'll show him a few things. I don't think he would like getting showed up buy a kid on a bone stock XR200R when he's got a brand new KX100 that should roast my bike. Riding with people his own age or close to his age might make him get the desire to learn how to properly ride so he can be fast. To make it even more fun I could go for a ride with him on my XR100R.