After having some less than pleasant experiences with an annonmous suspension tuner, ive decided Im gonna do this my self. Ive got it all figured out except what shims to put in I have a general Idea of which shims I need to change and which direction I need to go, but it would be nice to have some guidelines. I realize that this is how you suspension guys make your living and probably dont want to go giving out info like this, but what are my options? My main thing here is $$$, if i had the cash I would be sending my stuff to someone and have them do it. Am I just gonna have to do the trial and error thing till I get it right? Ive been considering the race tech gold valve kit, but I dont really think I need a whole new valve, i just want to mess with the shim stack. FYI I have a 97 KX250 and Im only going to be doing the forks right now, the shock will suit me for a little longer. any input is appreciated!
I wanna valve my own suspension
- Thread starter dave186
- Start date
I have been wanting to do the same thing and now that my 2000 CR is down and out for new tires, top end, clutch, and suspension service...I am thinking about revalving also. My plan is to buy the gold valve kit (comes with shims) from race tech and see what their instructions say. Race Tech seems to offer the best do-it-yourself assistance. I don't care to box up my suspension and ship it off for two weeks, possibly longer, possibly lost...only to have it come back not like I want. This isn't to say anything bad about anybody here as I have heard many good things about suspension guys that frequent the board.
The only problem with Race Tech is that they convert the mid valve in my forks for a check valve. I want to keep the midvalve so I am going to have to figure out how to compensate for that in their setup.
The only problem with Race Tech is that they convert the mid valve in my forks for a check valve. I want to keep the midvalve so I am going to have to figure out how to compensate for that in their setup.
In order for us to help you some info would be a start:
1) Rider weight and ability
2) Type of riding done mostly
3) Fork and shock spring weight
4) In what areas does the bike feel bad ie. bottoming hard off of jumps, harsh on square edges , not tracking straight in whoops etc.
Revalving your own suspension is fine but you need to make sure you understand what the problems are, and have gone the easiest route first ie. making sure your springs are correct, changed fork oil levels, set low-speed compression and reboung damping properly and fork height and shock sag. If you have tried these things and still have problems a revalve can help, there are lots of places that sell valving shims and can give pointers on improving your bike. The Race Tech kit is nice as it includes all necessary parts that would cost much more than the kit if you bought them separately. It is true that you don't need new base valves but the Race Tech stacks are designed around their port sizes so you should use them.
1) Rider weight and ability
2) Type of riding done mostly
3) Fork and shock spring weight
4) In what areas does the bike feel bad ie. bottoming hard off of jumps, harsh on square edges , not tracking straight in whoops etc.
Revalving your own suspension is fine but you need to make sure you understand what the problems are, and have gone the easiest route first ie. making sure your springs are correct, changed fork oil levels, set low-speed compression and reboung damping properly and fork height and shock sag. If you have tried these things and still have problems a revalve can help, there are lots of places that sell valving shims and can give pointers on improving your bike. The Race Tech kit is nice as it includes all necessary parts that would cost much more than the kit if you bought them separately. It is true that you don't need new base valves but the Race Tech stacks are designed around their port sizes so you should use them.
I think it would be fun to do this as well. I would not creat a business, just personal use at home.
Seriously though, I wonder how many forks and shocks someone like jeremy had to take apart before they understood exactly what to do and what to change? The shims are what is complicated for me. The rest appears similar to the machines I work on all day long.
Seriously though, I wonder how many forks and shocks someone like jeremy had to take apart before they understood exactly what to do and what to change? The shims are what is complicated for me. The rest appears similar to the machines I work on all day long.
DEANSFASTWAY
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- May 16, 2002
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Rcannon ; when you buy the race tech kits they give you a spec sheet with a baseline to start and you could then set up or make changes for weight ability terrain etc . single ,dual ,triple stage stacks His recommendations are mostly tailored around his piston flow rate but you mught be able to try it . I would reccomend that you purchase the kit because He sells it with a videotape to help show you how to install it . Without proper understanding of flow rates and shim sizes it would be trial and error for you to make an attempt . Either way the tapes would help you to find a setup orunderstangd the workings, but the hands on stuff could be hit or miss . Jeremy Wilkey is on a vacation from the forum for a week or so and Im sure he will have some viable suggestions for you when he returns . Until hen maybe you could ride and evaluate your present setup so you know what areas you wish to address .Sure I bet you could do it all by yourself but its best to make informed decisions so that you dont find yourself going backwards .Maybe when Jeremy returns he will have some specific reccomendations for you but I cant really tell you much since its his forum . Rcannon , were they already done by another shop and you are not satisfied or were you discussing an exp with another bike ? Either way Ill take a look for some used R/T G/V tapes I have and maybe send you a p/m or get them out to you . Theyre only really collecting dust right now . You should really wait and ask Wilkey hell probably be able to send or fax you out a fork build sheet from MX TECH
- Thread starter
- #6
I weigh 300 and have the correct springs, well almost, I have .46 but need a .50 and cant find any. The forks are very harsh on square edges and bottom fairly easily. I have an article from the September '93 issue of Dirt Bike magazine that has some pretty good basic info, but it doesnt give any example setups. oh, I ride desert and motocross and I guess im probably at the intermediate skill level. ive already done all the basic setup stuff, and with the forks I can only come up with a happy average on the compression clickers. turn them in to resist bottoming and its super harsh, turn them out to make them soft and it bottoms all the time.
- Thread starter
- #7
well, i took the forks off and made a "special" tool to get them apart. Now I feel like an idiot. The small valve thing that came out of the bottom is the compression valving, and the rod that came out the top has the rebound, correct? I dont think im going to mess with the rebound, but how do you get the long tube off of the rod thing? it looks like it has four holes with glue in them on the threads. Sorry for sounding like a newbie, I am. I think all i have to do now is grind off the peening and start messing with shims.
marcusgunby
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- Jan 9, 2000
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I dont understand the parts you are refering too but to revalve the base valve you will need to file down the thread to the nut to remove the peens.Put all the parts onto a screwdriver to keep them in order.
- Thread starter
- #9
maybe this will help. How do I get the long grey tube off, there is another valve that slides up and down inside of it. Im not going to mess with it, but it would be nice to know. Ive decided that im going to go with the Race Tech Gold Valve kit, it seems like the easiest route.
The four depressions you see at the top of the cartridge assembly near the spring stop are divots caused by the stamping process to lock the cartridge tube to the rod assembly. You have to drill these out just to the depth of the threads underneath to unscrew the top part from the tube. Don't go too far, all you need is just enought to break through the aluminum of the cartridge tube. Unscrewing the top from the bottom will give you access to the rebound piston, shims and midvalve assembly. I'm pretty sure that the Race Tech kit will have instructions on how to do this if you want to wait.
KawieKX125
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- Oct 9, 2000
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The drill and punch method is only to remove the bottoming cone thingy I believe. To remove the cartridge rod ad the midvalve, you need to unscrew the seat that the spring guide rides on. You can use 2 17mm open end wrenches(one needs to be quite thin) and unscrew it. It comes apart. Then there are 2 little half moon clips that you have to remove and the rod slides right out of the bottom of the tube. Easy as that.
marcusgunby
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- Jan 9, 2000
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Kawie i think the method you describe only works on later model KXs-i could be wrong on this however as i havnt done a 97 fork.
http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/mcycle/kayabafork/kybfrk.html
A link to a RT walk through. It may help you for the time being.
A link to a RT walk through. It may help you for the time being.
- Thread starter
- #16
the gold valves should be here monday or tuesday :aj: Here is another question, I saw in a mag a while back a guy was valving someones bike without even taking the forks off or draining the oil. He had it upside down and somehow took out the comp. valve. I wanna know how he did that, it could be very handy, as I doubt I will get it right the first time.
marcusgunby
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- Jan 9, 2000
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You can flip the bike over and use a inpact gun to remove just the base valve-i have tried the method and im not usre its worth the risk-the base vavle nut can come loose from the impact gun and all the part fall inside-this happens more on KTM base valves as they have a really small thread nut.
marcusgunby
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- Jan 9, 2000
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Yes i use a loctite on the threads-make sure the nut/threads are completely clean and dry before applying it.-i noticed in your sig you have a 97KX-it has progressive springs that were horrible-make sure you replace them with non-progressives for your weight or you will never get it handling well.
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marcusgunby
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 9, 2000
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dave i think you are correct-thats the second mistake i have made today concerning KX parts/years-i havnt rode Kwaks since 98 and my brains gone lately-i think i need to let the old gray matter have a rest;)
The cartridge tube will need to be drilled down 2mm's at the four dimples and then you have to heat up the tube around the dimple area to break loose the locktite the company used. Use the dampening rod holder&unscrew the top piece from the tube. Then pull the thing apart. Now you can get to the rebound piston. If you want to change the mid valve, now you can. Follow the instructions. The base valve is the one that holds the fork together at the bottom and just follow the instructions to get it right. Also you need to get a manual for your bike. This will help you also. Set up the shims the way RT recomends and then ride the bike for awhile to get use to the way it now works. Then you can start playing around with the shim stack.
marcusgunby
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 9, 2000
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The gold valve kits have been used by many riders and are very popular-you should be able to get good results with them as long as you are willing to experiment.Most piston designs can work very well as long as they are valved for the type of port design.
