Ignition Timing

tedkxkdx · Jul 17, 2004

Here is the latest on my end.
I took my electrex coils and had two rewound.
The first had three splices in it and burnt out in five minutes.
The second has the ohm at 373 with the max spec being 370 so I thought I would be just fine.
The guy did say that he insulated it three times to help stop water intrusion. I don't know what happened but with the stator plate in the middle it starts up just fine and idles normal. But anything over 1/4 throttle and it is cutting out. I don't know why that is.
Also we went from the electrex thickness of .112 to winding .125 and with the second coil I was getting no kickback. At least this guy is not charging me for the coils that are messed up. They usually don't wind so small and upwards of 6000 turns.
Any one have any suggestions on the problem here.

JasonWho · Jul 17, 2004

cicone · Jul 21, 2004

Good news on the Electrex front. You may recall that I experienced the kickback problem with the coil I purchased a few months ago. After the occassional phone calls didn't yield a result, I was able to get Ritzo(in house EE)on the phone and have a nice chat as well as direct him to this thread to see what others were saying about their C31 stator coil. Today I got a response from Ritzo "...Looks like people are finding out that winding these coils is quite tricky…..!
I will have a few coils wound up with different winding configurations to see if we can improve upon the current setup of our replacement coil....I just placed the order to have them done." Of course he asked me if I'd like to demo them---couldn't turn that offer down.Some of you know how to reach me---I told him I'd like to get couple of you guys on the demo thing as well. As for the details concerning the coil/timing issue---I will post his response as soon as it comes in. It's just another great day, ain't it!! :cool:

canyncarvr · Jul 21, 2004

'Ya mean you don't just wrap a bunch of sum kind'a wire around those pole things and hold it together with duck tape?

Well, no.

Thanks for the update!

tedkxkdx · Jul 21, 2004

The guy I am dealing with on rewinding is determined to get the thing right. He is not going to charge me for one until it is right. It takes him an hour to wind the .125 on at yes 6000 full turns not sides. I am still very annoyed that the last one did not work. I have a 92 kdx and will compare the AC output vs my 96.

canyncarvr · Jul 21, 2004

This isn't a case of 'more is better.' It's a case of being correct.

More voltage to the CDI isn't necessarily a good thing. Having the timing change due to construction/positioning (or whatever) isn't a good thing either.

What AC output is it that you are going to compare? Voltage input to the CDI? Any change to that and the CDI circuitry is going to 'complain'.

Either one, a longer (wider) pulse or a higher (voltage) input is going to change the timing of the CDI.

......thus the kickback stuff.

Seems to be a good place/time to use an oem coil?

Well, unless timing changes are the point of the rewind.

JasonWho · Jul 21, 2004

jaguar · Jul 22, 2004

For those with a stator coil that outputs a higher voltage (such as Electrex), you can bring the voltage down (the negative part of the waveform, which partly controls the timing) by connecting a series diode (1N4005) and resistor (or resistor + potentiometer) from the Wht/Red wire to the Black wire. The end of the diode with the "band" should connect to the Wht/Rd wire. If you used a 100 ohm resistor (1/2 W) in series with a 250 ohm pot you could adjust it on the fly until you find the best timing curve for your bike. Otherwise just use a 120 ohm resistor (1/2 watt) which will get you in the ballpark.

kdxepp · Aug 9, 2004

Hurray! My '94 finally runs after 3 weeks of anguish of trying to get a new Electrex stator coil to work. In the end I talked to Mr Cicone and got instruction on how to install the stator properly. Thanks to Mr Cicone! The Electrex instructions are contradictory and misleading. I had to flip the coil end to end so that the ground tag was just under the screw head and on the right side of the coil as it is mounted on the bike. It still kicked back hard on me at first, but I was able to roll start it and it stayed running and kicked OK after that. Previous to the new stator it had no power at half to full throttle. The only issue now is at the last bit of throttle opening WOT its not clean (no power). Is this timing??? I retarded it half a mark. Any thoughts?

jaguar · Aug 9, 2004

If it runs better at low rpm, and worse at high rpm then that is the symptoms for a stator coil putting out too much voltage which affects the timing curve. The cure is listed in my last post.
Higher stator voltage advances the timing at low rpm's and retards it at high rpm's.

cicone · Aug 10, 2004

Yeah Buddy!! :ride: Can't wait to test the new coil designs. Will keep you posted.

kdxepp · Aug 16, 2004

OK, Here's the deal, could not get the bike to run clean at WOT with Electrex stator coil. I installed the the diode and 120 ohm resistor as jaguar suggested with a half a tick retard and it still had no top end. I aquired an OEM complete stator assembly and it runs perfectly now. There is definitely something different with the Electrex ignition coil causing a timing issue with the kickback. BOTTOM LINE...it's not a "direct replacement". I wasted a lot of time, missed planned rides and got so frustrated that I went out and bought a new bike(WR450). Now I have two bikes and can't decide which one I like the best!!!

Ignition Timing

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