Ionamin
- Thread starter Billy Ed
- Start date
Billy Ed,
Yes, the are the same Ionamin is a retail version for the generic phentermine.
This drug is part of the infamous "****tail" , fen-phen. It is guilty by association with the now FDA banned the forms of fenfluramine, Pondimin and Redux. I have seen and continue to see the devastating effects of these drugs in patients with heart and lung problems. These are life long problems!!
Now phenteramine is still around and is given on its own, and individually, or so it appears, without the potentially lethal effects of the fen-phen ****tail. That is not to say it is harmless. Common adverse effects associated with phentermine are dry mouth, insomnia, increased blood pressure, and constipation. The drug appears to have a ceiling effect as well. This drug should not be administered without the supervision of a physician. The fact that it can be obtained over the internet is one scary proposition. I don't know the dosage, but I believe it falls in a range. People often take it 3 times a day prior to meals (8mg??/dose).
Questions to ask yourself, IMO:
1) Am I obese? Find out your body mass index (BMI), percent body fat etc..
2) Have I tried conventional behavior modification, honestly, and failed to loose any weight? Honesty here is the key. If you have demonstrated in the past that you can loose weight, any weight, with behavior modification, meaning dietary changes and exercise than this should be your primary focus and you have not demonstrated a valid need to introduce a drug to alter your appetite. You need to play this card out for 6 months to a year to see if you plateau.
3) If I am obese, do I have other risk factors or threatening health problems that may "predispose" me to other escalating medical problems or that make weight loss a urgent priority. Such as diabetes, high blood pressure, smoking (shouldn't count), high cholesterol, heart disease, severe OA etc...... Keep in mind , high blood pressure would exclude you for use of phentermin.
4) Have I had a recent work-up by my Doc to determine my health.
5) Are there other drugs or supplements that may better suit me for my individual characteristics. For instance Xenical is a drug that can reduce fat absorption and therefore can potentially lower serum cholesterol as well as help loose weight. Once again, there are side effects and I am not a big fan.
I could go on and on here, but don't want to preach. I don't want to come off 100% against these drugs. My problem, once again, is how the "over weight" population is fleeced by so many "get results quick" schemes and the fact that we want a pill for everything. Drugs like phenteramine have a place, but I think the boundaries for dispensing and obtaining these drugs often exceed their appropriate population. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and I'm sure, sadly enough, you can find a M.D. to disagree. Incidentally, many studies of the "3 major" drug types for weight loss are about the same and not that great at that for long term. The bottom line is there is no such thing as a free lunch!!!! Keep us posted on your results / decision. I would be happy to offer you more of my opinion and some literature to review :D
Good Luck , Keith
Yes, the are the same Ionamin is a retail version for the generic phentermine.
This drug is part of the infamous "****tail" , fen-phen. It is guilty by association with the now FDA banned the forms of fenfluramine, Pondimin and Redux. I have seen and continue to see the devastating effects of these drugs in patients with heart and lung problems. These are life long problems!!
Now phenteramine is still around and is given on its own, and individually, or so it appears, without the potentially lethal effects of the fen-phen ****tail. That is not to say it is harmless. Common adverse effects associated with phentermine are dry mouth, insomnia, increased blood pressure, and constipation. The drug appears to have a ceiling effect as well. This drug should not be administered without the supervision of a physician. The fact that it can be obtained over the internet is one scary proposition. I don't know the dosage, but I believe it falls in a range. People often take it 3 times a day prior to meals (8mg??/dose).
Questions to ask yourself, IMO:
1) Am I obese? Find out your body mass index (BMI), percent body fat etc..
2) Have I tried conventional behavior modification, honestly, and failed to loose any weight? Honesty here is the key. If you have demonstrated in the past that you can loose weight, any weight, with behavior modification, meaning dietary changes and exercise than this should be your primary focus and you have not demonstrated a valid need to introduce a drug to alter your appetite. You need to play this card out for 6 months to a year to see if you plateau.
3) If I am obese, do I have other risk factors or threatening health problems that may "predispose" me to other escalating medical problems or that make weight loss a urgent priority. Such as diabetes, high blood pressure, smoking (shouldn't count), high cholesterol, heart disease, severe OA etc...... Keep in mind , high blood pressure would exclude you for use of phentermin.
4) Have I had a recent work-up by my Doc to determine my health.
5) Are there other drugs or supplements that may better suit me for my individual characteristics. For instance Xenical is a drug that can reduce fat absorption and therefore can potentially lower serum cholesterol as well as help loose weight. Once again, there are side effects and I am not a big fan.
I could go on and on here, but don't want to preach. I don't want to come off 100% against these drugs. My problem, once again, is how the "over weight" population is fleeced by so many "get results quick" schemes and the fact that we want a pill for everything. Drugs like phenteramine have a place, but I think the boundaries for dispensing and obtaining these drugs often exceed their appropriate population. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and I'm sure, sadly enough, you can find a M.D. to disagree. Incidentally, many studies of the "3 major" drug types for weight loss are about the same and not that great at that for long term. The bottom line is there is no such thing as a free lunch!!!! Keep us posted on your results / decision. I would be happy to offer you more of my opinion and some literature to review :D
Good Luck , Keith
- Thread starter
- #3
Keith; thank you for a thoughtful and considerate reply. I have been doing the exercise thing to the best of my ability. I am up to three miles running (more like waddling) four or so times a week and have been eating better (still not eating birdseed). Sure, I could do better! At forty-six years old; these habits are hard to change! Hmmm. . . Does anyone have a drug that will make me twenty again?
Has anyone else noticed that exercise makes you hungry? Not only that; but exercise gives you a rationalization to eat! "Hey; I just ran three miles; I deserve to eat that hamburger!"
Actually my doc is reluctant to prescribe the phentermine; he has recommended Tenuate; which seems to be little more than a sugar pill. I am sure he is looking out for my best interests.
What I am looking for is a "jumpstart" to get a little weight off so I can do my running and riding better.
I am now at 240; need to be at 200.
Again; thank you for a considerate reply!
Has anyone else noticed that exercise makes you hungry? Not only that; but exercise gives you a rationalization to eat! "Hey; I just ran three miles; I deserve to eat that hamburger!"
Actually my doc is reluctant to prescribe the phentermine; he has recommended Tenuate; which seems to be little more than a sugar pill. I am sure he is looking out for my best interests.
What I am looking for is a "jumpstart" to get a little weight off so I can do my running and riding better.
I am now at 240; need to be at 200.
Again; thank you for a considerate reply!
Billy Ed,
Thanks to this forum I found out about Body For Life. I started outabout 6 weeks ago, and am not following the program as strictly as I should (not the exercise part mostly). I am 41 yrs. old, started at 242 lbs., and have dropped to 229. It has not been difficult, and if I were exercising as prescribed I am sure I would be doing much better.
This comes from someone who has never had any success losing weight in the past. Give it a shot....www.bodyforlife.com, or do a search of body for life.
Good Luck!
Thanks to this forum I found out about Body For Life. I started outabout 6 weeks ago, and am not following the program as strictly as I should (not the exercise part mostly). I am 41 yrs. old, started at 242 lbs., and have dropped to 229. It has not been difficult, and if I were exercising as prescribed I am sure I would be doing much better.
This comes from someone who has never had any success losing weight in the past. Give it a shot....www.bodyforlife.com, or do a search of body for life.
Good Luck!
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks Murf. Thanks WFO; I have decided to get the phentermine. If it kills me ya'll can say I told you so.
So far my running and exercising program have lost me a total of zero pounds! What I am having problems with is the eating. Did I mention that exercise makes me hungry? Right now I am about to eat this keyboard!!
Gateway. Yum!!!
I will keep you guys posted and thank you for the replies.
So far my running and exercising program have lost me a total of zero pounds! What I am having problems with is the eating. Did I mention that exercise makes me hungry? Right now I am about to eat this keyboard!!
Gateway. Yum!!!
I will keep you guys posted and thank you for the replies.
Billy,I have the same problem as you with regards to exercising and not losing weight, I currently train 6 days a week 1.5 hours a day and unless I stick to a good diet I can actually gain weight even though I do 30min. cardio and lift for an hour a day. I have tried low fat high carb diets, atkins diet etc. all with good results but for example I am 6'0 and weighed 290 over a year 1/2 ago which was too much for my frame even though I was in good shape and trained hard. I started the Atkins diet and kept my training the same and within 6 months I was at 235 and felt great, now I weigh 255 and am going to start the atkins diet again to get down to 225 by April. My point is this I have been training for 20 years and have always found it hard to lose weight unless I stick to a good diet, so while weight lose drugs will work first try a good diet like the atkins diet and see what happens over the next 6-8 weeks then make your decision.
- Thread starter
- #8
jski; of course you are correct. A better diet would be great, but I was not doing that badly in my eating habits. For me the exercise part of it is the easiest. But the weight wasn't coming off. Not that I am a triathalete or anything.
I got the phentermine a couple of days ago and have to say that it has been effective in curtailing the appetite. I haven't eaten much in the last couple days at all. As of today (Thursday) I am still alive and breathing.
Will keep you guys posted on the results!
I got the phentermine a couple of days ago and have to say that it has been effective in curtailing the appetite. I haven't eaten much in the last couple days at all. As of today (Thursday) I am still alive and breathing.
Will keep you guys posted on the results!
- Thread starter
- #9
Update: I can say that this stuff is definately not a sugar pill! I have lost 12 pounds in 6 days. Side effects are so far not too scary. My eyes are dry and feel kinda funny. 4 to 6 hours of sleep is all I get. (usually eight hours for me!) The worst thing is I am running on empty! I feel tired and have no energy, but the stimulant is working to keep me going. Sort of a contradiction. It really sux!
I haven't had my blood pressure checked, but maybe I should.
I got four more pounds to lose (target weight 220#) and I will take a break from this stuff. Start eating and working out to keep it off.
I plan to eventually get to 200#.
Will keep you posted.
I haven't had my blood pressure checked, but maybe I should.
I got four more pounds to lose (target weight 220#) and I will take a break from this stuff. Start eating and working out to keep it off.
I plan to eventually get to 200#.
Will keep you posted.
Nephron,
I work at a major university with a turtle for a mascot. ;) I come from a sports medicine / orthopedic background but I am currently working with neurological injury (stroke, TBI, CP and alike) studying mechanism of CNS recovery (neuroplasticity) with various therapeutic interventions, mostly physical agents, under a public grant. We are using functional MRI's as an outcome measure. I also do quite a bit of work with neuromuscular electrical stimulation as both a therapeutic modality and as a neuroprosthesis with SCI and stroke patients via a privately funded grant. My clinical work is focused on stroke patients and pathokinesiology of running injuries, my other passion. Keep up the input as much as you can, as I'm sure you are biting your tongue with much of what you read here. I think people can take away a lot from a forum like this with input from various perspectives.
Billy Ed,
Glad to here you are dropping lb's, not a surprise really. That's quite a bit of weight in 6 days, are you exercising? If you are not that number may be a little misrepresentative of true loss. The real challenge for you will be when you stop taking the med. Remember, the medicine is a pseudo form of behavior modification. Your body will fight to get those pounds back. Evidentially you will be faced with the same dilemma: good eating habits and exercise. I hope it gives you the "kick start" (or e-start for us KTM riders :) )your looking for, and keep us posted. I am pulling for you.
Take care, Keith
I work at a major university with a turtle for a mascot. ;) I come from a sports medicine / orthopedic background but I am currently working with neurological injury (stroke, TBI, CP and alike) studying mechanism of CNS recovery (neuroplasticity) with various therapeutic interventions, mostly physical agents, under a public grant. We are using functional MRI's as an outcome measure. I also do quite a bit of work with neuromuscular electrical stimulation as both a therapeutic modality and as a neuroprosthesis with SCI and stroke patients via a privately funded grant. My clinical work is focused on stroke patients and pathokinesiology of running injuries, my other passion. Keep up the input as much as you can, as I'm sure you are biting your tongue with much of what you read here. I think people can take away a lot from a forum like this with input from various perspectives.
Billy Ed,
Glad to here you are dropping lb's, not a surprise really. That's quite a bit of weight in 6 days, are you exercising? If you are not that number may be a little misrepresentative of true loss. The real challenge for you will be when you stop taking the med. Remember, the medicine is a pseudo form of behavior modification. Your body will fight to get those pounds back. Evidentially you will be faced with the same dilemma: good eating habits and exercise. I hope it gives you the "kick start" (or e-start for us KTM riders :) )your looking for, and keep us posted. I am pulling for you.
Take care, Keith
- May 5, 2000
- 1,425
- 0
Billy Ed, you should quit while you have the chance! The drugs that is. You can lose weight but most people are waaayyy too impatient. The other thing is people use a scale to measure their progress. What it sounds like is you are starving your body into eating itself! This may work for the short term, but once you stop you will be eating everything in sight.
Try to change your goal into something that you want long term. I went on one cycle (12 week) of the BFL routing and went from 240 lbs. to 208lbs. The big thing was I lost body fat, not just weight. I also developed a lot more muscle which helps you to burn more fat, but muscle also weighs more, so you have to toos out the scale. You will see the results in the mirror. Also, change your eating habits to eat many smaller meals a day (5-6) and drink water (gallons). For snacks try the rice cakes or protein bars if you like chocolate or peanut butter.
I start another cycle next week. The goal is to break 200and keep the body fat percentage down around 12-16%.
good luck!
- Thread starter
- #13
The phentermine was effective to help me lose nearly twenty lbs. I did not do the entire 30 days, I stopped at 21, as I just could not deal with all the effects. The worst thing was that any physical exertion would run my heartrate through the roof. Scary!!
This precluded any exersize as I was scared that I would blow a gasket.
I have been off the stuff now for a couple weeks and can say that I have so-far managed to keep the weight off by keeping the same eating habits as when I was on the drug, maybe even a little better.
I have even dropped a couple of more pounds by getting back to my excersize program!
I can't say that it was worth it, I would not recommend it, but I seem to have gotten away with the use of the stuff!
If I drop dead tommorrow; then you all can say "I told you so!!":eek:
This precluded any exersize as I was scared that I would blow a gasket.
I have been off the stuff now for a couple weeks and can say that I have so-far managed to keep the weight off by keeping the same eating habits as when I was on the drug, maybe even a little better.
I have even dropped a couple of more pounds by getting back to my excersize program!
I can't say that it was worth it, I would not recommend it, but I seem to have gotten away with the use of the stuff!
If I drop dead tommorrow; then you all can say "I told you so!!":eek:
I'd like to hear a little bit about your eating habbits. Someone mentioned bird seed in this thread, exersize makes you want to eat more, etc.
I can tell you from experience (no formal education at all so it's all personal experience, YMMV), that of all the "plans" I've seen and researched, those like "Body For Life" mentioned here are IMHO the ONLY way to go. Starve yourself of a balanced diet, you'll lose muscle, some fat, feel like crap, become mentally dull, etc., etc. Fad Diets (or any diet that starves the body) don't work. Period.
I use a modified version of BFL.. in that I'm not going for mass, rather primarily for endurance, so the weight training is different and I do a lot more cardio than Phillips suggests. (I don't lift to failure).
My eating habit has always been; no breakfast, something "fast" for lunch and then WAY too much for dinner. Which changed to JUST "Way too much for dinner when I started my business. I'd go all day without eating. Talk about feeling tired all the time. Add to that 4-5 hours max sleep and no water intake... throw in partytime on the weekends... :ugg:
Now I'm in my winter training mode and back on my modified BFL after slacking-off last year (I REGRET THAT LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE). 6 meals a day. The food get's boring, but, I eat mainly to avoid hunger, not so much for entertainment anyway. 2 of those meals are Met_RX shakes (thanks Rich!), 1 is Yogurt (not "plain") mixed in cottage cheese (50-50 about 1.5 cups), another... a turkey sandwitch on whole grain/apple/fruit, then a regualr dinner per BFL (hand sized portions of carbs/protein/veg balance).
I do (don't laugh it's a great work-out) Tae Bo 4 times a week before breakfast, upper/lower every other day (evening), rest on Sunday. During the summer I rest on Friday, usually ride Sat.
Year before last, I trained for 14 weeks... lost 5 inches in the waist (down to 32!), endurance was WAY up, I noticed a major increase in balance (TaeBo?) and felt AWESOME. At 6-1, I was pretty chunky at 235 :eek: . I entered the season at 190. My bodyfat droped by nearly 12%. I spend at MOST 1 hour a day doing my routine. I don't lift at all during riding season.
Sorry to ramble, but nothing bugs me more than folks believing they have to have a drug to lose, roids to gain, etc. There are I'm told, folks that simply can't lose weight and do need meds, but there are Docs that are WAY too fast dealing the drugs. FOR EVERYTHING.
I'll be the first to admit, changing habits is tough. But it really does get easy after a short time. When you start seeing and feeling the difference, it's awesome. I kid you not, within 2-3 weeks of eating right and exersizing, you will really feel it. The inches will literally start falling off.
Sorry about that :silly:
I can tell you from experience (no formal education at all so it's all personal experience, YMMV), that of all the "plans" I've seen and researched, those like "Body For Life" mentioned here are IMHO the ONLY way to go. Starve yourself of a balanced diet, you'll lose muscle, some fat, feel like crap, become mentally dull, etc., etc. Fad Diets (or any diet that starves the body) don't work. Period.
I use a modified version of BFL.. in that I'm not going for mass, rather primarily for endurance, so the weight training is different and I do a lot more cardio than Phillips suggests. (I don't lift to failure).
My eating habit has always been; no breakfast, something "fast" for lunch and then WAY too much for dinner. Which changed to JUST "Way too much for dinner when I started my business. I'd go all day without eating. Talk about feeling tired all the time. Add to that 4-5 hours max sleep and no water intake... throw in partytime on the weekends... :ugg:
Now I'm in my winter training mode and back on my modified BFL after slacking-off last year (I REGRET THAT LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE). 6 meals a day. The food get's boring, but, I eat mainly to avoid hunger, not so much for entertainment anyway. 2 of those meals are Met_RX shakes (thanks Rich!), 1 is Yogurt (not "plain") mixed in cottage cheese (50-50 about 1.5 cups), another... a turkey sandwitch on whole grain/apple/fruit, then a regualr dinner per BFL (hand sized portions of carbs/protein/veg balance).
I do (don't laugh it's a great work-out) Tae Bo 4 times a week before breakfast, upper/lower every other day (evening), rest on Sunday. During the summer I rest on Friday, usually ride Sat.
Year before last, I trained for 14 weeks... lost 5 inches in the waist (down to 32!), endurance was WAY up, I noticed a major increase in balance (TaeBo?) and felt AWESOME. At 6-1, I was pretty chunky at 235 :eek: . I entered the season at 190. My bodyfat droped by nearly 12%. I spend at MOST 1 hour a day doing my routine. I don't lift at all during riding season.
Sorry to ramble, but nothing bugs me more than folks believing they have to have a drug to lose, roids to gain, etc. There are I'm told, folks that simply can't lose weight and do need meds, but there are Docs that are WAY too fast dealing the drugs. FOR EVERYTHING.
I'll be the first to admit, changing habits is tough. But it really does get easy after a short time. When you start seeing and feeling the difference, it's awesome. I kid you not, within 2-3 weeks of eating right and exersizing, you will really feel it. The inches will literally start falling off.
Sorry about that :silly:
My 2 cents
Okiewan, I couldnt agree more, everyone wants a quick fix with no work involved. I too have ballooned in the past 4 years and this year I am working hard to get back to healthy ways. I am eating low-cal, high nutrition, as described in the realage diet by Michael F. Roizen. That and now up to 48mins per day on my Nordic-Trac, have resulted in a 16lb weight loss in 19 days. By eating this way you never really get hungry because you can eat a lot of low cal foods to fill up. It has been proven that 6 meals a day are more healthy than 2 or 3 big meals. A sample days menu for me:
7:00am 3-4 cups hot green tea
1 serving hot oat bran(1/2 cup dry) talk about your fillers
1 cup mixed berrys with 1/2 container non fat yogurt on top
1 glass vanilla flavored soy milk
10:00am 1 banana + 1 orange or tangerine
12:00 noon Homemade vegatable soup + 2 slices french bread
3:00pm 1 large fuji apple + tangarine
6:00pm Nordic trac 48 min
7:00pm Grilled or baked fish, baked sweet potatoe, steamed squash
generally no after dinner snaks just too full
It seems like eating dinner right after exercise makes me not as hungry, as does drinking a lot of water thru out the day, but maybe thats just me. I also take a multi-vitamin + E & C, but I eat a few toasted almonds b-4 taking them to slow them thru the system( your stomach takes longer to digest fat and almonds are the good kind of fat. Find out how many calories it takes to support your ideal weight, eat no more than that and eventually you will weigh that much. Exercise speeds up the whole process. If you really want a wake up call take the realage test at www.realage.com, take the time to do the long quiz, it may give you the same wake-up call it did me. Good Luck to all!
Okiewan, I couldnt agree more, everyone wants a quick fix with no work involved. I too have ballooned in the past 4 years and this year I am working hard to get back to healthy ways. I am eating low-cal, high nutrition, as described in the realage diet by Michael F. Roizen. That and now up to 48mins per day on my Nordic-Trac, have resulted in a 16lb weight loss in 19 days. By eating this way you never really get hungry because you can eat a lot of low cal foods to fill up. It has been proven that 6 meals a day are more healthy than 2 or 3 big meals. A sample days menu for me:
7:00am 3-4 cups hot green tea
1 serving hot oat bran(1/2 cup dry) talk about your fillers
1 cup mixed berrys with 1/2 container non fat yogurt on top
1 glass vanilla flavored soy milk
10:00am 1 banana + 1 orange or tangerine
12:00 noon Homemade vegatable soup + 2 slices french bread
3:00pm 1 large fuji apple + tangarine
6:00pm Nordic trac 48 min
7:00pm Grilled or baked fish, baked sweet potatoe, steamed squash
generally no after dinner snaks just too full
It seems like eating dinner right after exercise makes me not as hungry, as does drinking a lot of water thru out the day, but maybe thats just me. I also take a multi-vitamin + E & C, but I eat a few toasted almonds b-4 taking them to slow them thru the system( your stomach takes longer to digest fat and almonds are the good kind of fat. Find out how many calories it takes to support your ideal weight, eat no more than that and eventually you will weigh that much. Exercise speeds up the whole process. If you really want a wake up call take the realage test at www.realage.com, take the time to do the long quiz, it may give you the same wake-up call it did me. Good Luck to all!
- Thread starter
- #16
Okie; for thirty years I ate anything I wanted to and got away with it! For the last fifteen, I haven't been getting away with much.
Now I am trying to do better.
A couple of pieces of whole-wheat toast in the morning. With a light coating of jelly. No margarine.
Mid-day a couple or three rice cakes. (Don't tell Rich!!) maybe with some honey to make them edible. If I am feeling guilty, I forego the honey.
Lunch something like a turkey sandwich. Or an apple.
Afternoon a couple more rice cakes. The Glycemic kind.
Dinner is the best meal (I know, I know!) and is done in moderation. Last night a couple of lean hamburger patties.
This is on my good days. I am certainly not perfect, and just might eat a hamburger now and then. As I said, I am trying to do better.
Mikromo obviously has it going on! I don't think I will ever be that dedicated. Soy milk? Green tea? What the heck is a Fuji apple?
Even if I wanted to eat that stuff, I would have a hard time finding it around Possum Holler.
Excersize for me is running. Pure and simple. I am naturaly a big strong guy and don't need any more muscle mass or strength, so the running is best for me. Keeps me flexible and alert and on top of my game. I just need to do more of it!
Let me again thank the crowd for the thoughtful and considerate replies. I fully expected to be ripped to shreds on this topic; to the point that I very nearly did not post.
Now I am trying to do better.
A couple of pieces of whole-wheat toast in the morning. With a light coating of jelly. No margarine.
Mid-day a couple or three rice cakes. (Don't tell Rich!!) maybe with some honey to make them edible. If I am feeling guilty, I forego the honey.
Lunch something like a turkey sandwich. Or an apple.
Afternoon a couple more rice cakes. The Glycemic kind.
Dinner is the best meal (I know, I know!) and is done in moderation. Last night a couple of lean hamburger patties.
This is on my good days. I am certainly not perfect, and just might eat a hamburger now and then. As I said, I am trying to do better.
Mikromo obviously has it going on! I don't think I will ever be that dedicated. Soy milk? Green tea? What the heck is a Fuji apple?
Even if I wanted to eat that stuff, I would have a hard time finding it around Possum Holler.
Excersize for me is running. Pure and simple. I am naturaly a big strong guy and don't need any more muscle mass or strength, so the running is best for me. Keeps me flexible and alert and on top of my game. I just need to do more of it!
Let me again thank the crowd for the thoughtful and considerate replies. I fully expected to be ripped to shreds on this topic; to the point that I very nearly did not post.
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,551
- 0
Okay, some say I should contribute more (some less;) ) here.
Here's the problem. Look at out slovenly, fat, disgusting Western society. Atherosclerosis, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, dyslipidemia--these are all diseases of the western world. Why? We're trained from birth to think we have to eat at least 3 meals a day, AND that we MUST eat when we're hungry. :silly: Uh, thanks Mom. Furthermore, there's a Mickey Dee's on every corner, and everyone knows there ain't nothin better than a Quarter-Pounder on the fly.
Now here's our body. Our bodies are perfect--we're the ones effing them up all the time jamming all this shat into our systems. Our bodies, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THINK & BREW OVER, are designed for long periods of starvation, dehydration & salt deprivation . ie, the underlying physiology is slanted for survival, not excess.
The whole attitude in this country is just hilarious. Everyone's focused on weight loss, diets, working out. Meanwhile, the prime "concept" is completely ignored. That "concept" is that we've got it all wrong--we're jamming up a system designed for conservation and survival. Of course, our smart bodies are gonna take that extra energy and save it for later. Teleologically, the people that are the most obese in this country, would have survived famine for longer periods of time, selectively, than their thinner counterparts.
A great example of this phenomenon is Africa. How much diabetes, hypertension, coronary artery disease, obesity, dyslipidemia, etc. is there? NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. Why? They don't eat. They don't feel the need to eat. They do fine. What they DO die of is inadequate acute medical care, Tuberculosis and AIDS, but that's another story. Now you take that same population of blacks that came over here during slave days, and only the ones that could "hang on to salt" the best could even survive the long boat trips with periods of dehydration. The populace spawned by these same folks are now the WORST hypertensives, particularly salt sensitive, in the USA. Why? The western diet in conjunction with their salt "conservative" physiology.
Do you see where I'm going? STOP FOCUSING on food, for crying out loud. One small meal a day is PLENTY. The only "general" intervention ever shown to prolong survival in rats is CALORIC RESTRICTION. You've got to understand that when we eat, our body must convert all those carbs, fats & proteins into high energy phosphate bonds for cellular energy (ATP). In the process of that, oxidative phosphorylation must occur, with the production of free radicals that cause cellular damage--particularly mitochondrial DNA damage (since oxidative phosphorylation occurs primarily in mitochondria). Know what aging is, and what it really all boils down to? It's mitochondrial DNA damage. That, my friends, is new theory, and you'll hear more about it later. Perhaps in the next decade or so.
I could go on and on, but for practicality, just remember this:
1) Protein and fat promote delayed gastric emptying, thus "fooling" you into feeling full most of the time.
2) Protein and fat cause the release of glucagon and suppress insulin
a) Insulin is a growth hormone, which causes fatty cytosolic synthesis from glucose, ie makes you FAT
b) Glucagon suppresses insulin production, promotes elaboration of cellular glucose and fat stores for energy, hence making you utilize fat for energy. Glucagon is your friend, if you're fat & trying to lose weight.:D
3) Thus, it follows that the best way to lose weight is the pseudo-Atkins way. Not full, but pseudo. Have eggs for breakfast, not toast or cereal. Eat small protein and poly or monounsaturated fat-rich food meals and you will notice an improvement in LBM (lean body mass), which is what most are after.
I myself, don't have much of a problem with obesity because figuring all the above out, pretty much suppressed my appetite--permanently.
Let's face it. We're lazy, fat people obsessed with food. Change your philosophy on intake, and you'll be fine. Good luck.
Here's the problem. Look at out slovenly, fat, disgusting Western society. Atherosclerosis, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, dyslipidemia--these are all diseases of the western world. Why? We're trained from birth to think we have to eat at least 3 meals a day, AND that we MUST eat when we're hungry. :silly: Uh, thanks Mom. Furthermore, there's a Mickey Dee's on every corner, and everyone knows there ain't nothin better than a Quarter-Pounder on the fly.
Now here's our body. Our bodies are perfect--we're the ones effing them up all the time jamming all this shat into our systems. Our bodies, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THINK & BREW OVER, are designed for long periods of starvation, dehydration & salt deprivation . ie, the underlying physiology is slanted for survival, not excess.
The whole attitude in this country is just hilarious. Everyone's focused on weight loss, diets, working out. Meanwhile, the prime "concept" is completely ignored. That "concept" is that we've got it all wrong--we're jamming up a system designed for conservation and survival. Of course, our smart bodies are gonna take that extra energy and save it for later. Teleologically, the people that are the most obese in this country, would have survived famine for longer periods of time, selectively, than their thinner counterparts.
A great example of this phenomenon is Africa. How much diabetes, hypertension, coronary artery disease, obesity, dyslipidemia, etc. is there? NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. Why? They don't eat. They don't feel the need to eat. They do fine. What they DO die of is inadequate acute medical care, Tuberculosis and AIDS, but that's another story. Now you take that same population of blacks that came over here during slave days, and only the ones that could "hang on to salt" the best could even survive the long boat trips with periods of dehydration. The populace spawned by these same folks are now the WORST hypertensives, particularly salt sensitive, in the USA. Why? The western diet in conjunction with their salt "conservative" physiology.
Do you see where I'm going? STOP FOCUSING on food, for crying out loud. One small meal a day is PLENTY. The only "general" intervention ever shown to prolong survival in rats is CALORIC RESTRICTION. You've got to understand that when we eat, our body must convert all those carbs, fats & proteins into high energy phosphate bonds for cellular energy (ATP). In the process of that, oxidative phosphorylation must occur, with the production of free radicals that cause cellular damage--particularly mitochondrial DNA damage (since oxidative phosphorylation occurs primarily in mitochondria). Know what aging is, and what it really all boils down to? It's mitochondrial DNA damage. That, my friends, is new theory, and you'll hear more about it later. Perhaps in the next decade or so.
I could go on and on, but for practicality, just remember this:
1) Protein and fat promote delayed gastric emptying, thus "fooling" you into feeling full most of the time.
2) Protein and fat cause the release of glucagon and suppress insulin
a) Insulin is a growth hormone, which causes fatty cytosolic synthesis from glucose, ie makes you FAT
b) Glucagon suppresses insulin production, promotes elaboration of cellular glucose and fat stores for energy, hence making you utilize fat for energy. Glucagon is your friend, if you're fat & trying to lose weight.:D
3) Thus, it follows that the best way to lose weight is the pseudo-Atkins way. Not full, but pseudo. Have eggs for breakfast, not toast or cereal. Eat small protein and poly or monounsaturated fat-rich food meals and you will notice an improvement in LBM (lean body mass), which is what most are after.
I myself, don't have much of a problem with obesity because figuring all the above out, pretty much suppressed my appetite--permanently.
Let's face it. We're lazy, fat people obsessed with food. Change your philosophy on intake, and you'll be fine. Good luck.
From a Doc or not... that fly’s in the face of pretty much everything I've ever read from athletes, doctors, dietitians, etc , etc.
What I've gathered is the human body has the desire to store fat to use as energy during times of starvation. Makes sense. It also makes sense that during times of food availability, the body will shift gears and not store (as much) fat. The whole idea of 6 small (balanced) meals is to convince the body that it doesn't need to be in a fat storing - preservation mode.
Like I posted previously, eating one meal a day adds pounds (on me) big time. I can lose weight simply by eating more often.
Sorry man… IMHO, 1 meal a day is bad advice. No fuel.
What I've gathered is the human body has the desire to store fat to use as energy during times of starvation. Makes sense. It also makes sense that during times of food availability, the body will shift gears and not store (as much) fat. The whole idea of 6 small (balanced) meals is to convince the body that it doesn't need to be in a fat storing - preservation mode.
Like I posted previously, eating one meal a day adds pounds (on me) big time. I can lose weight simply by eating more often.
Sorry man… IMHO, 1 meal a day is bad advice. No fuel.
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