KDX Killer - Gas Gas Pampera

[BunduBasher]

Here it is ladies and gents, this looks to be an awesome bike - :p

http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/2002-s/pampera-250-specs.html

MSRP $4695

Weight 198lb
Seat Height 34 inches
Fuel Capacity 1.8 gallons
Wheel Base 53.6 inches
Front Suspension Marzochi 40mm
Rear Suspension Sachs Boge with Progressive linkage
Chassis Oval tubing for maximum strength & minimum weight
Swing Arm Cast Aluminum internally reinforced
Front Brake Disk, 260mm, Floating
Rear Brake Disk, 200mm, with Hebo 4-piston caliper

This looks to be a killer machine, I hear they will be in stock here in two weeks time, I have got to see this baby !

 

[kipmax]

"KDX Killer"?

Well, that depends on how you consider the KDX to be used...

The Pampera is a trials bike in disguise. The new model leans a little more towards Enduro in the styling department and has longer legs but it is still a trials machine at heart.

Billygoat trails? Great beginner/play bike? Something for the wife (please, no flames from the hardcore female riders here :scream: )? Yes, the Pampera is that.

Enduro race bike? Nope, that it is not.

PS, watch the video clip on that page. You will get my drift.

 

[HGilliam]

There is one setting in our garage waiting for it's third ride next Saturday. The motor is a 250 trials engine with a more conventional 6 spd ratio gearbox. It is like having the powerband of a 4 stroke but the weight and simplicity of a 2 stroke. It starts 1st kick cold and hot and very easily after being dropped. My 4'12" vertically challenged wife loves it. I'm in the process of making a longer set of pullrods for the rear linkage so she can get a little more foot on the ground when she stops. I'll probably attack the seat foam next. It needs shaving and maybe drill some holes in it to soften it up a bit. It's harder than my KTM! So far she's riding it much faster and smoother than her TTR150. I just sold her DR200 and it appears the TTR's days may be numbered.

I've not ridden a KDX so I can't say if it's a KDX killer or not. I can tell you one thing for sure, it's a neat motorcycle for a wide variety of people.

If anyone has questions feel free to post or email me.:)

Howard

 

[Vic]

Is it street legal?

 

[89vett]

Looks like a nice bike,but I would hate to try and get parts for it.
89vett
2000 CR125r

 

[Patman]

Vic, Yes I believe it is. Last years was.

 

[BunduBasher]

From what I understand, the bike is sold as 'dirt only', but comes with all the goodies to put it on the street, lights, horn, turn signals etc.

I spoke to the dealer in Boise ID, and he tells me it is NOT a KDX killer, but is a great all round bike, very powerful, lots of torque, not a racer, but a very capable 'dual sport'.

I may forget that big bore for a while and get one of these babies !

 

[LoriKTM]

It's a nice looking scoot. I'd test ride one. :p

I just hope someone makes a bigger gas tank for it, 1.8 gallons is pretty skimpy.

 

[GlennP]

Hgilliam,

I'm planning to get one for my wife. This looks like the hot ticket. She is 5'5", and tired of starting hot 4-strokes. She just likes to trail ride at her own slow pace, and not worry about picking the thing up and kicking it 20 times after a fall. How hard is it to kick? I ask this because she can start her XR200 OK if things go well, but doesn't have the leg strength or size to really slam it through enough to start it if its hot and flooded. I imagine its much eaiser than my XC250, that probably has higher compression. I never rode a GG trials bike to compare. Also what length are the stock pull rods? I have different lengths for my XC if they will fit. What was the actual price? Thanks in advance.

 

[BunduBasher]

$4695 MSRP, I guess you will have to add a few hundred more for set up, shipping, tax etc !

Check out the link, there is a video, and specs on the bike - looks too cool.

Yeah, get it for your wife, the 360 will probably follow later this year ! :cool:

Check out the link http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/2002-s/pampera-250-debut.html

 

[gospeedracer]

Wow! Nice looking bike. That video is cool. I wish I could do some of that stuff. Like get over rocks like that!

Off topic, but why would you wear an open face helmet to do those things? The whole time I was watching it I was just cringing imaging him going over the bars or crashing and smashing his face in on either the bike or the ground!

 

[DahlElama]

A couple of you mentioned using different pull rods (longer/shorter). Could you educate me on the benefits/pitfalls of changing the length of the pull rods?

 

[CJ Rider]

The helmet theory is that you go slower but still expend energy so you majorly fog up in full face. This is what Nicole explained last week and I found it to be true. I did feel exposed at first, but I really wasn't going that fast and could jump away pretty easily. However, those bikes can go pretty fast too, so that kind of defeats the theory.

That Pampera DOES look like a great trail bike! Lately our trail riding has hit more ledges, roots and trees to go up, over and around. I'm thinking that a bike with power as well as some trials influences would be perfect! Please keep us updated on how your wife likes the bike, HGilliam! I'm interested!

 

[BunduBasher]

I just got off the phone with the dealer, and there are two models, a 250 and 280, both for the same price $4695, which my guy will let me have + tax OTD, he has included freight and set up which makes me very happy.

Hgilliam, yes please, let us know how things go, do you have to premix, or is there an oil injector. Also, do you plan to register the bike, and dual sport it.

The more I hear about this bike, the more I want it !

 

[TexKDX]

Originally posted by gospeedracer
Off topic, but why would you wear an open face helmet to do those things? The whole time I was watching it I was just cringing imaging him going over the bars or crashing and smashing his face in on either the bike or the ground!

GSR, obviously the guy is a trials rider and the nose wheelie/regular wheelie/ride ups on rocks/drops offs is pretty standard advanced trials rider stuff. The open face helmet is for visibility, so you can see all around unimpeded.

For a relative newbie like me, I can do stoppies just fine and not be worried about falling on my face. Right now I am taking them up to the balance point. Once that is mastered, then the nose wheelies are next. For that step, you can bet I'll be wearing a full face helmet!

I gotsta get one of these! Even if it does say GasGas on the side ;).

FWIW, Beta has had the Alp out for a few years based on the Techno engine. The latest version has the Suzy DR200 motor in it.

This is not a new idea either. Just yesterday I was on the phone with the inventor of the Bultaco Alpina, a trailized trials bike. Montesa also had the "trail" version of the 348 back in the 70s.

 

[dirt bike dave]

There is nothing new under the sun. Some years of the Bultaco Matador as well as the Alpina could be compared to the new Gas Gas. Congrats to GG for updating a good idea. Here are some Bultaco pics.


http://www.motocra.com/jmdurante/matador mk5.htm

http://www.strappe.com/alpina.jpg

 

[HGilliam]

Sorry for being slow answering, I've been putting the stock shock back on the DR200 so I can deliver it to its new owner tomorrow.

The bike is not DOT street legal but has all the stuff except a battery. I don't anticipate a problem in my county, they tagged her TTR125 no questions asked. If not there's always the Vermont mail order tag route. (Full info on www.WDSRC.com).

The longer pull rods lower the rear by increasing the distance between the shock linkage and the attachment point on the swing arm. Shorter ones would raise the rear height. I've pushed the fork tubes up in the triple clamps until they touch the handlebars. This got the front down about 12mm or 1/2 inch. I figured lengthening the pull rods 3.5 to 4mm will lower the rear about 1 inch. I'll post the stock length and the longer length plus id of the mount holes when I get them back from my machine shop buddy. If anyone wants some I'll ask how much he'll make them for.

It has about 12 to1 compression but starts very easily. The jetting is spot on and it must have a good hot ignition. Of course the heavy trials flywheel helps once you get it spinning over.

The stock side stand is junk. It folds up ala Ducati as soon as you stand the bike up. It also appears to be very weak and needs a big washer welded on the foot to keep from sinking in soft ground. I will probabily put one of the bolt on swingarm side stands on. This cured the same problem on my KTM620

The hydraulic clutch is silkey smooth and the easiest pull I've felt on any bike except a GasGas 280 trials bike.

Regarding parts: This bike has a seeping Oring on the petcock where it mounts to the tank. Problem is the hole drilled in the tank for the petcock pickup is egg shaped instead of round. The importer is getting a tank from Spain via DHL express and its suppose to be shipped to my dealer Monday.I'll keep you posted on the outcome. Remember this bike is imported by the Trials bike distributor in Kansas City not the enduro xcountry bike importer in Mississippi. Lots of parts off the trials bikes are used.

If you think you want to buy one I wouldn't think on it too long. My understanding is every bike coming in the rest of this year is already spoken for by the dealers. If you see it and want it you better buy it right then. You won't be disappointed unless your expectations are completely off base.

It is premix not injected and I agree about 1.8 being smallish on the tank size. Maybe a tank off the XC200 would work. We are going to a dualsport in Gulfport Miss in 10 days so we'll let you know how the fuel range is. I plan on packing oil and maybe a alum fuel container used for a backpack stove. This way I could drain fuel from the MXC tank on my KTM and measure it accurately for premixing.

The bike does not have a spark arrestor on it. I'm going to put an add on model on . I'll let you know what winds up fitting well.

Enough for now, gotta run

Howard

 

[Bob Brooks]

The Pampera looks intriguing, and I definitely like some of the concepts. The only things that appear suspect to me are, as some of you have mentioned, the smallish fuel tank, and also the suspension components. The suspension looks pretty weak compared to the GG enduro bikes, with slim components and not much travel. It definitely appears to be a bike designed for shorter riders and slower speeds. Can anyone comment on the performance of the suspension so far? Can the bike be ridden aggressively in the woods, or is it more for slower-speed trials stuff?

 

[BunduBasher]

It looks to me like I will just have to get the Pampera 280, I can just picture myself riding the 'advanced' section with little or no problem (OK dream on !), that is if I get to ride the bike :) . I think I will place my order today ... yeah baybee :eek: :p

 

[TexKDX]

Bob Brooks,

All I can say is don't knock it until you try it! My Monty has a .6 gallon tank and it usually lasts about 2 hours, depending on the terrain. A 25 or 26 mm carb does not suck much fuel.

Naturally a trials-based trail bike is not gonna have 12 inches of Ohlins-controlled travel and 40 horsepower. Not all trail riding has to involve 30 mph whoop sections.

Even a regular trials bike will surpise you off road. Throw in a bunch of rocks, logs, mud, and hills, and I'd rather be on this thing than my KTM. Heck, even last week I had the trials bike on a small stadium-style MX track. I was not going fast per se, but was able to outrun a guy on a ttr250 and another on a yz400! No lie - got witnesses to prove it.

 

[Bob Brooks]

Hey Tex, I certainly am not knocking the Pampera or any trials bikes. I'm just very curious about the Pampera and its capabilities. It's definitely a neat-looking motorcycle and a great concept. My wife currently rides an XR250 Honda and while she really enjoys it, it is a heavy pig and a little under-powered. Sometime in the next year or so, she's looking to upgrade and we're exploring all options. A buddy of ours rides a Gas Gas EC300 and he has been giving us the sell on the Pampera and we are interested. The light weight, easy starting and low-end power are all big selling points of this thing. I'm just concerned about the lack of suspension. We do all kinds of riding and I'm not sure the Pampera would be the bike for that. Not all of our riding is the 30 mph whoops that demand 12-inches of suspension and a lot of horsepower, but some of it is. ;) I'm just interested in hearing about the capabilities of the Pampera and if it's truly a versatile woods bike that my wife may be interested in, or more geared towards slow-speed riding and obstacles.

 

[TexKDX]

I talked with a friend about the bike last night Bob and he said a guy tried to ride the Ute Cup on one this year. He quit trying to ride the sections about 1/3 of the way thru the first day and just rode the loop for the rest of the event.

From a trials section perspective, the bike leaves alot to be desired. Turning radius, gearing, peg placement, etc. become an issue in a true trials section where the series,order, and placement of obstacles is much harder than the sum of the individual obstacles. The same holds true on the Alp. A friend of mine who had a Techno bought an Alp and was surprised at how much it did not act like a trials bike. He called it an imperfect compromise, not very good at trials and not very good at trails. He also complained about not being able to sit down during trail rides. He did however find it an excellent platform for his 14 year old stepson to learn to ride on.

I also don't know on the Pampera how much they change the dampners from the trials version. A trials bike can be ridden fast on the trail, but it takes alot of finesse to do so. You ride around some terrain and do alot of loading and gliding. It is worthy to point out that these are all worthwhile things to learn, but become essential on a bike like this.

I equate it to the difference between a cyclocross bicycle vs. a fully-suspended mountain bicycle. Cyclocross demands tons more finesse unless you like tacoed wheels and kinked downtubes. Both can cover the same terrain, just differently. The Pampera can be ridden up steps and rocks by a trials rider where with a dirt bike three guys will be dragging it up the same terrain on its side.

These types of bikes don't do well when ridden on multi-use ATV trails if you expect to keep up with your buds blasting the whoops on a 12 inch travel bike. You can tag along and have fun, but don't expect to be blasting the whoops on the back tire. You'll be riding the edges around the whoops where you can and rolling the ones you can't. Get onto a true alpine-type trail, and the tables will be turned. Really, if you go back to the days before long travel, these types of trails are a blast on a trials bike or a bike like the Pampera.

I guess one question worth asking is what is the type of rider your wife is? If she likes to roll along enjoying the ride plus improve her technical skills, then the Pampera would be great. If she is or desires to be a berm blaster, then this bike would be for her play rider alter ego.

The enduro-style motorcycle is a huge market in Europe. There is everything from a 50cc bikes up to the Veradero Honda getting in on it. Since GG has the resources to make this bike, they might as well try to expand their sales into this market by modifying an existing product.

Hope this helps,

 

[BunduBasher]

TexKDX, you raise some very valid and interesting points. This bike kind of reminds me of the late 70's, early 80,s style enduro bikes, which were lower and lighter, did not have the travel of today's modern bikes, yet were a blast to ride. If you watch 'On Any Sunday', the bikes Malcolm Smith rides on the Six Days, or on the hill climb, or Elsinore, and in the desert, are all twin shock, low sitting, suspenderless machines, yet he and Steve McQueen could not only have great fun, but race as well. The last time I watched this show, I had tears in my eyes, and was feeling really depressed/nostalgic about the good old days, when bikes were fun, there was very little restrictions on riding, and there were wide open spaces for all to enjoy.

I once took my Suzuki TS50, with TS100CC engine (a Malcolm Smith miniature !), into The Valley of a thousand Hills, in Natal South Africa, and had the ride of a lifetime, although the bike was small, and under powered, I managed to stay with the XR's in the tight and hilly stuff, even managed to ride stuff and stay on where they could not. On the sandy riverbeds, and fire roads, I was left eating dust. Still, it was the most fun I have ever had on a bike. (I was 17 and weighed about 100 pounds at the time !! - we can double the age and weight for today :eek: )

If I could get my hands on a Pampera 250/280 for a ride, that would probably put my mind to rest !

I could always get me an old RM370 and relive the days of old, but the GG seems like a better modern day option !

The Ute Cup, was this an enduro or a trials competition ?

 

[TexKDX]

BanduBasher,

The Ute Cup is a trials event:

http://www.trials.co.uk/usa/2001usa/2001usanews.html

http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/News-new/Mark-ute-2000.html

 

[Bob Brooks]

Tex, wow, thank you for a very insightful post! Your words confirm my suspicions about the Pampera. I'd like to get a test-ride on one for my wife, but I don't think she'll be buying one. I think the Pampera would be ideal for a lot of the riding we do, technical woods stuff, but I don't think it would have the versatility that she needs. In addition to the technical hill climbing and woods riding, we also ride a lot of fast trails, hare scrambles races and some MX stuff. My wife is still a beginning rider, but she's getting faster and more aggressive every weekend and she's already using all the suspension that her XR250 offers. The Pampera would no doubt make a wonderful second bike though. :D