KDX Killer - Gas Gas Pampera

[TexKDX]

OK, OK, Bob - I'll do my best not to try to sound like a know-it-all ;)

Guess what the latest addition to the Tex stable is - a '99 XR250. Email me if you'd like to get some info on how to enhance the bike's power and handling for almost nothing.

In short, I am really stoked by my XR now 280. The thing continues to surprise me, plus is teaching me how to go faster in the woods. She must be pretty fast (or fat :scream: ) if she's riding the wheels off of it already.

 

[Bob Brooks]

Tex, unfortunately, my wife's XR is a 1994 model. The suspension on hers leaves a lot to be desired. The '96 and newer XR250s aren't too bad, suspension-wise, but hers is a bit dated in that department. The '94 rides like a marshmellow, so it doesn't take a great deal of weight or speed to surpass its capabilities. ;) Quite honestly, if my wife had the newer version of the XR, I don't think she would have the desire to upgrade.

 

[AnneBrooks]

She must be pretty fast (or fat ) if she's riding the wheels off of it already

HEY NOW!!!!!!!!! :think

 

[Vic]

:)

 

[TexKDX]

Hey Anne -

You miss-quoted me - left out the :scream: ;)

Guess the guys got a better laugh out of the joke than you did. Please take my comment in jest, and my apologies if you were offended by the comment.

Did you two take in the Buffalo 500 Dual Sport this fall?

 

[WoodsRider]

Quite frankly I find this whole Pampera thing amusing. It seems that more and more vertically challenged riders want a bike that isn't classified as a playbike like XR's and TTR's. IMO they seem to have a mental block and believe they can't become a better rider if they are on a playbike. They also believe that something from Europe couldn't possibly be a playbike so it will make them a better rider. Unfortunately the Pampera is designed, manufactured and marketed as a playbike, albeit a different approach to the typical Japanese playbike. Jumping off your XR/TTR onto a Pampera won't make you a better rider.

I'm not saying don't buy a Pampera, just don't buy one expecting it to be a race bike. Don't compare it to a KDX either.

 

[AnneBrooks]

No offense taken!! Just bustin' your chops a bit!!;)

I am neither fast nor fat----just have a bike with a marshmallow suspension. I do need something faster and better suspension, though. I have slowly worked my way into dirt riding (xr100 first, then TTR225, now XR250) learning control and technique first. Now comes the speed and better suspension!! Look out next year!

Thanks for all the advice! Keep it comin!!

 

[AnneBrooks]

WoodsRider, I'm curious, why NOT compare the Pampera to the KDX?? Isn't the KDX marketed by Kawasaki as a playbike?? It's certainly not meant to be a hardcore racebike these days, unless it's heavily modified, and I would think that in many ways, it's target audience is similar to the Pampera.

 

[kipmax]

Yes, the ancient KDX has become a "play bike". But no, I wouldn't compare it to the Pampera. They are in two entirely different ballparks.

In fact, the only bike in *recent* (don't laugh) history that it could be compared to is the exciting (cough) Yamaha XT225.:D Which I am sure the Pampera will completely trounce.

 

[HGilliam]

The suspension feels more like a good dualsport or enduro type setup than a trials bike. We did a 2 day school at Trials Training Center on the GasGas 200 and 280 trials bikes and there was some spirited trail riding mixed in with the lessons. I test rode one of the old model Pamperas with the trials suspension and the new one has much better woods bike suspension but not what I call motocross suspension. I think the bike is setup for a rider in the 125 to 160 lb range. Over that size will require some spring and oil adjustment.

We are riding saturday so I'll try it out on some tougher trails and report back on how it does with a 190lb rider.Next weekend is a 2 day Dualsport in Miss that will be a good test. I understand they have some pretty good woods and trail sections on this run.

I do know that she is riding a quicker pace than she was on a much modified TTR150 . She says it is smoother and more relaxing to ride at a quick pace and credits this to better quality suspension and the smooth powerband the motor has.

More to come later
Howard

 

[AnneBrooks]

Howard, we look forward to the report, thanks.

 

[WoodsRider]

Actually Anne, Kawasaki markets the KDX as an enduro bike. The '00 D-17 Big B Hare Scrambles champion rode a stock KDX220. Phil Converse won the overall at a hare scramble last year on a stock KDX200. So don't joke about the KDX's ability to be competitive.

The Pampera is more along the lines of the Kawasaki Sherpa. Choosing between a KDX and a Pampera is easy. If I wanted a bike to race, I'd buy a KDX. If I already owned a race bike and wanted something just for trailriding, I'd buy a Pampera.

 

[BunduBasher]

Who we really need to hear from is someone who owns and rides this bike, and knows its capabilities, and limitations. Tex, I don't think this bike is any good for trials, as you pointed out, but for trails and mountain goat type terrain it might be perfect. I spoke to one of the dealers last night, and he says it reminds him of an old 70's DT250, the engine that is, by the way it sounds when it revs, bmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, bmmmmm, bmmmmm bmmmm !, not rrrrp, rrrrp rrrp like the new bikes :)

I order mine today ... yes :p

 

[TexKDX]

Originally posted by WoodsRider

The Pampera is more along the lines of the Kawasaki Sherpa.

Yea, maybe a Pampera with 70 pounds of LEAD strapped to it.

 

[CJ Rider]

Very much looking forward to the upcoming ride report, HGilliam!

 

[WoodsRider]

Originally posted by TexKDX
Yea, maybe a Pampera with 70 pounds of LEAD strapped to it.

Less HP too! :confused:

 

[Girlrider]

While at the ISDE in France Gas Gas had a Pampera there. Typically it is not a good idea to compare a Pampera to a KDX because they really are not similar. I think the reason we do compare them is because a lot of times when we get women into the sport we think that the KDX would be better than say a KX or YZ because it does have a heavier flywheel so the powerband is not as radical and it has good bottom end power so they can climb up stuff going slow. If you put the 2 bikes side by side they are not similar in any reguard. Now this I can say. The KDX can be a good race bike. Look at Jeff Fredette. Has raced a KDX for over 20 years and he is faster than most. The bike works for him unlike it does for others. I remember when Kelby Pepper raced a KDX and was very good. Take Jeff or Kelby and put them on a Pampera and they would hate it. Why? Because they both weigh around 165 pounds and they ride harder and more aggressive than the average rider so the Pampera would not have as good of a suspension. So then why the fuss about the Pampera. I met CJrider last weekend and she said she was short but I really didn't realize that my 32" inseam legs were so valuable until I met her. CJ weighs about 100 pounds and while sitting on my Gas Gas 250 enduro bike her feet were a good 6" from touching the ground and on my trials bike when she stood over it she just barely touched the ground. Remember a trials bike doesn't even have a seat. Imagine as a man being you height now but getting on a bike in which when your feet are hanging towards the ground you are 6 inches from touching. Now add an extra 50 pounds that you have to pick up each time you crash and remember you are much shorter than the bike so getting leverage to pick it up is harder. Okay to make a long story short for a person who is 5'6" tall or shorter and weighs 130 pounds or less the Pampera will be better than the KDX because the suspension will accommodate that weight much better than it will a heavier person. At 125 pounds I have to rebuild my Gas Gas Suspension to make it work for me because Stock is too stiff and I ride at the A level. The weight of the bike will be easier to manage. The height of the bike will allow them to touch which comes in handy when stopping and going and the electric start will make it just like a KTM 520. If I were that size I would buy a Pampera over a KDX anyday because the KDX is much heavier and taller. If I were taller and heavier than that I would consider the KDX except that I personally prefer the Gas Gas 250 XC. The Pampera is a great option for shorter and lighter women who want to ride trails or even enduro's but it is not a motorcross bike but neither is a kDX. It just offers a lighter bike with a bigger motor say than the TTR 125. CJ had a TTR 125 and I had never seen one until this past weekend and those really don't have enough power. CJ was flying on our trials bikes because they had more power than that TTR 125.

 

[Bob Brooks]

I still don't understand the argument that this Pampera shouldn't be compared to a KDX. Why not? I don't think anyone is disputing the capabilities of the KDX. Fredette has proved over and over again for a lot of years that KDX's can win races. But any really good rider can win in the woods on just about any bike. I've been passied in the woods by Phil Converse and I think he could win races on a pogo stick or a Chevy S-10. It's not surprising that he won the overall at a hare scrambles race last year on a stock KDX. I'm just not sure that the KDX is realy marketed these days as a full-on racebike. If it that is the case, why are all the Kawasaki-sponsored off-road racers (with the obvious exception of Fredette) riding KXs and not KDXs? Andrews, Abbot, Esposito, Edmondson, Woolford and all those guys ride KXs. That's why I believe that Kawasaki is targeting more of a recreational/playbike audience with the KDX, just like Honda does with the XR line.

I don't want to get into a flaming online argument about the comparison, and I certainly don't intend to slam the KDX (I believe it's a wonderful machine). Anne and I are just genuinely interested in hearing about the peformance of the Pampera, and hopefully compare it to other motorcycles. We're still interested in reading about the Pampera, but after looking at the suspension and reading some of the other posts from Tex and others, it's probably not the bike for Anne, at least not as a primary ride. I still don't comprehend the argument that it shouldn't be compared alongside a KDX. I suppose there is a little bit of apples and oranges there, but I would think most folks considering buying a Pampera would want to know how it compares to a KDX, XR, DRZ, TTR...etc.

 

[TexKDX]

OK, OK all you Woodland Park area people. Enough of this 'net discussion about the Pampera.

Whadda u say we continue it in person, at Tres Hombres, next Saturday?

I'm borrowing a heated vest to go with my KLR so I'll have some ground transportation next weekend out there. Should I bring my trials boots and helmet?

 

[Girlrider]

Bob,

First the Pampera is much shorter than the KDX. To achieve this they make a shorter suspension which then does not give it as much travel. How tall and heavy is Anne (If you don't mind me asking). What level is she at as far as skill? Does she plan to race and what type of racing does she plan to do? It does not have as good of a suspension as a KDX. As I said earlier though a lighter person usually needs to have a stock suspension modified for their weight whereas the Pampera may already have that bennefit. Laura Bussing at the Trails Training Center who is a National Trials rider decided to race an enduro on her somewhat modified Pampera last year. She is about 5'4" tall and I would say between 115 and 130 but I really don't know. She is an agreessive rider but she is primarily a trials rider who is beginning to race enduro's. She liked the bike for it's weight and height but it did not has quiet as good of a suspension as she would have liked. Now she rides as Gas Gas 200 Enduro bike. Put the 2 bikes side by side and the Pampera is much smaller all around. Tell me about Anne and I could tell you if I would recommend it.

 

[WoodsRider]

Bob - Go to Wally World Kawasaki in Joliet and pick up a sales brochure for Kawasaki's off-road bikes. Both KDX's and the KLX are marketed as enduro bikes. I'm not stating the KDX is the best woods bike out there, for racing, but it is a better platform than the Pampera.

BTW - If you want to pass Phil, put him back on a Praga. :scream:

 

[BunduBasher]

Bob, I guess as you say, the Pampera can be compared to the KDX with regard to a capable beginner bike or occasional trail and woods bike, but not a racer. This is where the KDX will show its true form. I guess you could compare it to the XR250's, TTR's, Sherpa and DRZ250. What probably will make it better than these bikes will be the lighter weight and lower height, and more powerful torquey engine.

I have no intention of ever racing, but would like to have a good capable fun bike. I will probably have to fit a stiffer rear spring, and maybe do something with the front suspension. For my riding however, which is very spodely, this may just be the bike I am looking for.

If all else fails, the cool factor will make up for the rest ;) , also anyone, especially the gals, wishing to upgrade from a TTR125, or DR200/XR200, this may be just the ticket !

I can bet that Michelle in NZ, who finds her KDX a bit of a handful, may just want to get her hands on one of these babies :)

 

[Bob Brooks]

WoodsRider, I finally agree with you. From what I've read here and from what I've seen from photos, the KDX is a much better platform for woods riding than the Pampera. Incidentally, I'm not sure I could pass Phil if he were on a mountain bicycle! However, I'm still not convinced that the KDX is marketed as a racer. I have seen the Kawasaki brochures and they depict riders playing in the woods or on BLM-style trails. I don't see any scenes from the ISDE or GNCCs in the brochures. But, I don't think we're ever going to agree on that debate, so if it's okay with you, let's just agree to disagree.

Girlrider, judging from what you've written about the Pampera, my wife Anne would definitely not be suited for it. I believe she's too tall (5-foot-7), too heavy (160 pounds) and too aggressive for it. She's already punishing the suspension badly on her '94 XR250. She's more interested in the 200 GG and is looking for a test-ride on one of those bad boys. She still has much to learn on the XR, and she intends to continue riding it into next year, but some time next season she'll upgrade to a more serious machine. Some of our Gas-Gas advocate riding pals had suggested the Pampera to her, and that's why we were curious. Thanks for all the info and we still are curious to hear a ride report and comparison on the Pampera. :)

 

[BunduBasher]

Bob, I guess you need to classify the term "Racer" - The KDX makes a pretty good B and C class enduro/hare scramble racer, much like the DRZ400. If however you are fast, and A class rider and want to not only win, but lead the pack, then you either must look to a KTM, GAS GAS, or modified MX racer like the YZ, KX etc. The KDX IMO is much more than just a play bike, it is tall, has pretty good power and fairly good suspension, so for those who do a lot of playing, like fast riding, woods etc, then a bike like the KDX or DRZ is probably ideal. I guess if you have dough to through, the GG and KTM enduro bikes (which are serious race bikes), can be a pretty expensive play bike. Like me buying a Husaberg 400 or KTM400EXC for my play bike, something I have considered, but find much too impractical.

woodsrider - the Pampera is designed, manufactured and marketed as a playbike, albeit a different approach to the typical Japanese playbike. Jumping off your XR/TTR onto a Pampera won't make you a better rider.

I think you can and will become a better rider if you ride a bike which suits your style of riding, the more you ride, the better you will get.

The Pampera probably does not fit the profile of racer or trials bike, which puts it in the play category, which is probably the fastest growing segment of the market. The DRZ was slated when it was released, it was not a racer, not a good enduro or hare scramble machine, but tons have been sold because of the play factor, it is a great play bike, and much more. The KDX falls into this category too.

I plan to do a lot of playing on my Pampera, I see the dealer today, and will put in the order for delivery before the LL fest !

See y'all there :cool:

Go check out "On Any Sunday" again, and just check out those old style bikes, those guys were way cool, could ride like the wind, and had the most fun on the planet :)

 

[CJ Rider]

... I finally agree with you. From what I've read here and from what I've seen from photos, the KDX is a much better platform for woods riding than the Pampera....

Please remember to qualify that with, "...if you're tall enough to stop and not fall over most of the time." It's always good to have comparisons, but we are not all the same size. That's why some of us are VERY EXCITED to get a Pampera ride report from another short chick.

The power of Nicole's trials bike was a real eye-opener for me. The thought of having that in a nicely-sized package is intriguing! And following BanduBasher's theory of properly sized/powered bike = more riding enjoyment = more riding = better rider, I think that puts to rest WoodsRider's theory that a better bike won't make you a better rider. (Notice the type of bike WoodsRider rides, which is contrary to his own theory.)

BTW... Good luck with your race in Mississippi, Gilliams!