KDX - Self made gaskets - How ?

[Ol'89r]

, so I really do apologise for adding it in there!

No worries. :cool:

Having been in this business for a long time and having worked at the corporate level with engineers, I have learned that everything is not set in stone. What works on paper doesn't always work on the racetrack or in real life. It's best to keep an open mind.

IMO, making your own gaskets is not the way to go. There are times when you have to make a gasket. Doing a repair the night before a race or a ride and you have no gaskets. Then, you may have to make a gasket. Then, and only then should you make your own gaskets. Like others have pointed out, thickness is important. Also, OEM gaskets have sealant in certain critical areas that can leak without the proper sealant. There are also critical holes in certain gaskets that have to be a certain size. Making new gaskets without these holes or with the wrong size holes can damage your engine. Annealing a copper head gasket can only be done a few times before you cook all of the oxygen out of the copper and it becomes brittle. Normally, annealing a copper gasket does not change it's thickness but, re-using the same gasket over and over can.

One of the things we do in my shop is restore old British bikes. Many times gaskets are not available for these bikes and then we have to make gaskets or anneal old ones. But, if the gaskets are available, we buy new ones.

IMO, it's a good idea to buy a gasket set for your bike before you need it and keep it handy for emergency repairs. There are a lot of things on your bike you can save money on but, gaskets are not one of them. Buy a couple extra head and base gaskets too just to keep in stock.

BTW. The copper spray is called 'Copper-Coat' and is available at most auto parts stores. Spray a couple of light, fog coats on each side then apply one heavy, wet coat just before bolting on the head.

Just my $ .02 U.S. or .029 Pounds Sterling. ;)

 

[motopsycho87]

That copper coat stuff, how does it come off when you seperate pieces? Scrape or? It's not too common in the land of lime.

 

[Ol'89r]

Most of it comes off with lacquer thinner. Some if it never comes off since it carries actual copper particles in the solution. The copper becomes impregnated in the metal.

 

[motopsycho87]

Any idea of the purpose of the copper?

 

[motopsycho87]

... aids heat dissipation :)

 

[omrik88]

Not sure if i got all the details right... what did you mean by "Imo"??
Between my crank halves there is no gasket, only a thin coat of RTV.
If i cannot get gaskets or they are expensive then i would need to make them myself.
Even if i do it right(thickness,material,precision etc)- i still might damage the engine?
It's not rocket sceince is it?
Did anyone here have good results making his own gaskets?
Thanks.

 

[motopsycho87]

I have made hundreds of gaskets for hundreds of vehicles, the only way it will put damage to an engine is when the gasket is specifically sized for a purpose, i.e. head gasket (in which if you go thicker, all you do is lower compression ratio, so you will lose a little power). Normally on bikes where clearances are concerned RTV is used instead of gaskets. Generally anywhere you see a gasket you can go without one, though it is all down to using your brain. Look at what you are putting together, will any bits rub or bind? If not then it is perfectly fine to do so.

In most cases on a bike the worst you can do making your own gasket is to have it leak and have to make a new one, I would be absolutely amazed if anyone damaged an engine doing so.

 

[Ol'89r]

I have made hundreds of gaskets for hundreds of vehicles, the only way it will put damage to an engine is when the gasket is specifically sized for a purpose, i.e. head gasket (in which if you go thicker, all you do is lower compression ratio, so you will lose a little power).
In most cases on a bike the worst you can do making your own gasket is to have it leak and have to make a new one, I would be absolutely amazed if anyone damaged an engine doing so.

omrik88. IMO means 'In My Opinion'. Meaning, that is my opinion on the subject and people like motopsyco are welcome to their own opinions. :coocoo: Doesn't mean any one of us is right. You are correct, it's not rocket science but a little bit of common sense would sure help.

motopsycho. Obviously in the hundreds of vehicles you have worked on, you have never worked on a modern day water cooled fourstroke mx bike. These bikes have case gaskets with very small holes in critical areas. They also have strips sealant bonded to these areas to insure the gaskets don't leak. Head gaskets in these bikes also have certain size holes to insure the proper flow of coolant. If one were to re-make these gaskets and leave out these holes or get the sizes wrong then YES, you could most certainly damage your engine. It's not so much the thickness of the gasket, it's the fine details that makes the difference. Details that are easily overlooked by the novice mechanic. The factory knows what they are doing and there is a reason for every little hole or extra strip of sealant. Using RTV instead of gaskets in these areas can also cause problems. Bits of RTV can come loose inside the engine and clog these little holes and starve the engine for water or oil. Also causing damage to the engine.

If you think you are going to save money by making your own gaskets, think again.

I'm done with this thread. I just came in here to answer a simple question and share a little bit of my experience on the subject. I forgot the KDX Luddites have their own way of doing things. It's easy to see why motopsycho is having problems in this forum. My mistake. :bang:

 

[motopsycho87]

omrik88. IMO means 'In My Opinion'. Meaning, that is my opinion on the subject and people like motopsyco are welcome to their own opinions. :coocoo: Doesn't mean any one of us is right. You are correct, it's not rocket science but a little bit of common sense would sure help.

motopsycho. Obviously in the hundreds of vehicles you have worked on, you have never worked on a modern day water cooled fourstroke mx bike. These bikes have case gaskets with very small holes in critical areas. They also have strips sealant bonded to these areas to insure the gaskets don't leak. Head gaskets in these bikes also have certain size holes to insure the proper flow of coolant. If one were to re-make these gaskets and leave out these holes or get the sizes wrong then YES, you could most certainly damage your engine. It's not so much the thickness of the gasket, it's the fine details that makes the difference. Details that are easily overlooked by the novice mechanic. The factory knows what they are doing and there is a reason for every little hole or extra strip of sealant. Using RTV instead of gaskets in these areas can also cause problems. Bits of RTV can come loose inside the engine and clog these little holes and starve the engine for water or oil. Also causing damage to the engine.

If you think you are going to save money by making your own gaskets, think again.

I'm done with this thread. I just came in here to answer a simple question and share a little bit of my experience on the subject. I forgot the KDX Luddites have their own way of doing things. It's easy to see why motopsycho is having problems in this forum. My mistake. :bang:

Oh sorry, I forgot we were talking about "modern day watercooled four stroke mx bikes"... :whoa:


Seriously mate, how stupid do you think I am? Why are you assuming I would make a gasket out and simply neglect an oil or waterway? I have to produce one off pieces at work frequently to tolerances lesser than 0.001", do you think I just turn off when working with gasket material? :coocoo: I prefer to use proper OEM gaskets cause I'm ****ing lazy, thus I have a gasket set, but there is nothing wrong with using home made gaskets from properly produced gasket paper.

And with head gaskets, if you want to make your own, do it, just ensure (like captain obvious stated above) that all oilways and waterways are correctly reproduced and that the thickness of the material is taken into consideration (you may want thinner or thicker to alter the compression ratio depending on the ride style you are after).

Manufacturers can ALWAYS be improved upon, thats why there are so many tuning companies producing better than OEM parts. All bikes are made to work within incredibly large tolerances to compensate for the wear of the machines producing the components, thus we always end up with thicker gaskets than required sheerly to increase the safety margins. All you need is a pair of calipers, a few hand tools and a tiny bit of ingenuity and you can massively transform the characteristics of a stock engine. :|

 

[glad2ride]

omrik, what country do you live in? Are you asking about a 1988 KDX200-C3? If so, the sealant used between 1988 KDX200-C3 crankcase halves is NOT RTV. Look for Kawabond 5 or similar.

If you want to make your own paper gaskets to save money, then you are probably going to have to get a micrometer or calipers and new OEM gaskets, then shop for gasket material. I have made a KIPS cover gasket using a new OEM gasket and gasket material. Cutting a few holes and angles was not too fun. Doing the same for the most expensive gasket, the clutch cover, would take a long time.

As far as the head gasket, how often are you going to be working on it, that (if possible), just oredering a new Cometic gasket kit or similar, is going to be more trouble than annealing the one made 24 years ago? Again, which country are you in? Why are you hoping to re-use the current gasket and make new paper ones? Some additional information would help.

 

[motopsycho87]

To cut gaskets just hole the paper to the piece and tap around the sharp edges and holes with a small toffee hammer :)

Also, if you are a right tightarse, put gasket sealant on one side, and a thin layer of oil on the other, allow the sealant to half set, then assemble!

 

[glad2ride]

By the way, ol' 89er, thanks for the Luddite comment.

"I forgot the KDX Luddites have their own way of doing things."

That brings up the good old times of when Okiewan, XR Predator and other friends would come into the forum and spice things up. Wow how dirt bike internet forums in general have changed over the years. Thanks again.

 

[Ol'89r]

By the way, ol' 89er, thanks for the Luddite comment.

"I forgot the KDX Luddites have their own way of doing things."

That brings up the good old times of when Okiewan, XR Predator and other friends would come into the forum and spice things up. Wow how dirt bike internet forums in general have changed over the years. Thanks again.

You're welcome glad2ride. Glad you didn't take it personal like others seem to do. Just pokin' fun at motopsyco. He makes it so easy. :nener:

I too miss the old days of DRN. Now that we are a kinder, gentler place, it seems like everybody left. IMO, controversy and those little f-u fights keep people coming back for more. Remember the Three amigos, "Tighty wearin homo's", now that was some funny stuff. :rotfl: A lot of people complained about the mean Mod's and the nasty posters. Now, many of those people got their way and they left anyway. And we are left with a neutered DRN. There again, just my opinion.

I just wandered in here to answer omrick's question that appeared on the main page. Didn't know I was stepping in the middle of a crap storm between Julien and Psyco. To be honest, I don't really care what people like Psyco have to say since guys like him only want to argue instead of providing good quality information. He can go use the side of a cardboard box for his gaskets if he wants to. If that's not thick enough, Home Depot sells this stuff called Drywall. It's a little thicker. If it's too thick, he can wack it with his file. :laugh:

Also, I'm not bashing anyone's ride or any group of riders. If you ride a motorcycle, any motorcycle, (even a KDX) ;) you're ok by me. It's all in good fun. :cool:

 

[motopsycho87]

If it works, I'll use it. ;) The blanking plate for my 2-stroke pump is made out of a saucepan. FACT.

 

[helio lucas]

while this thread was incredible fun i really think is on time to close it down.
original question was very well answered and this is getting slightly off-topic.

in my opinion this forum is very friendly and people give good advice, no need for this kind of "will-take-to-nowhere" discussion. :nod: