KTM 525 SX suspension question for Terry Hay or anyone else

[MXTex]

All,
I'm on the fence between buying a CRF450 or a KTM 525SX. I ride MX only; don't race but play ride hard. Like to jump and do it all. I weight 210 to 220 lbs. I always get my bikes revalved and resprung. Been using MX-Tech for several years now.

Question: Can a tuned 525SX suspension be comparable to a tuned CRF450 suspension? To me this is my decision point in that I think both the motors are killer. I'd appreciate any feedback on this but due to his extensive testing a research; I'd really like to hear Terry's opinion.

Thanks in advance.

 

[marcusgunby]

IMHO a wp will not match a showa-nor will a kyb.

 

[MXTex]

Thanks Marcus. How about linkage vs. linkageless? Comparable when fully tuned?

 

[marcusgunby]

Nope:( IMO KTM will drop the Pds soon.

 

[JTT]

Nope:( IMO KTM will drop the Pds soon.

I can hear the angry pumpkins gathering a posse from here ;)

 

[elf]

Marcus is right on the forks. I have mx-tech forks on my bike.
They are much better than stock but not even as good as stock showas. If your willing to spend big bucks on them they can be made pretty good. The rear is a different story, The no link can work better than a linkage in some conditions imo, Its at its best in large widely spaced bumps, but not so good on hard choppy stuff.

 

[DEANSFASTWAY]

Yeah and the new Hondos are coming with good bars and stuff stock .

 

[ScottS]

Get the KTM and buy the forks I have from a 2003 CR450F- best of both worlds !

 

[terry hay]

MXTex
To me the KTMs have a power application unparralleled by any of the Japanese marques. The slim ergos and light weight feel create an ease of ride that is less brutal and more forgiving. It is true that the suspension could use some work but the 05s will yeild a few surprises. The three bush designed fork has been replaced with a new two bush design with flex engineered into the chrome tube for more compliance. The shock has greater flow through the shaft than previous models which should reduce harshness. The major breakthrough in handling will come in the shape of the new triple clamps that will enable the user to adjust the amount of trail. From what I've seen of the valving, the forks and shock will most likely require lightening off for all but the aggressive among us. The CRf has its own issues and is by no means without fault. Very stiff springs and an underdamped rebound circuits are just the beginning. At the end of the day it should be the bike that best reflects your riding style that determines your choice. The KTM is certainly a bike that will allow you to ride all day with less effort. However, if blowing your mates away in short bursts of aggression is more what you're looking for, then perhaps Mr Honda has the bike for you. As a tuner I can vouch for the benefits in upgrading the suspension on both bikes. I personally prefer the KTM but for no real reason have never bought one. 05 could see me on a new 450EXC
Terry

 

[MXTex]

Terry,
Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I purchased a new 2004 KTM 525 SX yesterday so I guess the delimna is over. Soon as I get it (shipping from Atlanta) I'll be getting the suspension done and installing the 18mm offset triple clamps. Transitioning from my old trusty steed (98 KX250) to this bike should be fun. I don't plan on having any problems with those doubles placed right out of corners anymore.
You know it's interesting this KTM genre. From a mainstream standpoint, they just don't seem to be completely understood. But when you talk to people that really understand MX bikes technically, (like yourself), the feedback you receive is mainly consistent with the comments you've made herein. The consistency of this feedback along with a desire to have something a little differrent is what drove my decision.
I'll generate a ride report once I get this thing dialed.

Thanks again and cheers,

Jim

 

[terry hay]

Congratulations on your purchase.
One very easy mod to do to your forks is to reverse the order of the third bushing an alloy spacer in the fork tube. This will instantly remove a great deal of binding that is present in the forks and promote a plusher feel. When you have the spacer out take the time to clean up the edges as they are usually burred. Try using a 7.5wt oil at 150mm. This will really help the rebound circuit. Compensate on compression by running the adjuster at around 20 clicks out. Whoever you enlist to do your suspension mods should lower the effective length of the shock by 3mm. I use an extended topout plate that we have made for our customers. This will give you a much more balanced feel front to rear. There are several other mods I would recommend but these will get you started. There is no other bike like a 525. I will change the bars straight away if I end up on a Kato. If you are relatively tall, they dont promote the most ergonomic package.
Good luck
Terry

 

[MXTex]

Thanks Terry. Whom in the states performs these modifications you mention?

 

[terry hay]

The closest guy to you will be Clay at C&M Cleburne, Texas. Nice person bloke too. I have been working with him for a while now.
Terry

 

[MXTex]

Well, I got the bike yesterday. Took the suspension components off immediately and shipped them away. I'll be getting the suspension tuned and installing a set a 18mm off-set triple clamps. Additionally, my suspension tuner will be machining a set of bar mount spacers to raise the bars a bit. Slap on a tall seat foam seat and I should be set to go. I certainly don't plan on needing to do anything performance wise to that motor! So with any luck at all, I should take it for it's maiden voyage in a couple of weeks. I'm not is a super big hurry in that the heat index in Houston has been hovering around 110 lately. This is our worst time of year for riding. But soon enough it'll start to cool down. Thanks everyone for the help in making this decision. I'm definitely committed now and feel good about it.

 

[terry hay]

Too hot for riding? I'm not familiar with the concept. Have your tuner shorten the shock by 3mm and conduct the bushing and tube mods. If you seek out recommended mods on ktmtalk.com there is a wealth of information. Big gains for little effort.
Terry

 

[MXTex]

Terry,
Thanks. I spoke with my tuner about the bushing reversal and shock shaft shortening. He mentioned that KTM had sent out a service bulletin to this end back in the late eighties for some of their forks. But he did not realize the new forks would also benefit. Per our conversation, he employed the change in his own forks and said he would do mine also if he saw benefit in his. On the subject of shock travel reduction, he said that he did recommend a little bit different sag setting to help out with the balance issue but did not see the rationale behind reducing the travel. He seems open to the topic so if you'd be so kind as to provide the reasoning I'd like to pass on. I'm working with Dicks Racing. www.dicksracing.com

Thanks,

Jim

 

[elf]

Terry I would be interested to know the rationale behind reducing the shock travel too. And why is it different than just adding more sag?

 

[KTM-Lew]

Jeremy has also been doing the travel reduction for several years.....

 

[terry hay]

This is not a case of simply reducing travel. The reduction is simply a means to an end. The fact is that the shock tends to over extend in braking and downhill situations pitching the riders weight forward. This places an increased load effect on the riders hands giving the impression that the forks are harsher than they actually are. It also increases the bikes tendancy to push the front. By reducing the travel (3mm no big deal) you restore the balance and produce a more managable machine. If you had the opportunity to do back to back testing with this you would be amazed at the result. If you don't, I guess you'll have to trust me.
Terry

 

[marcusgunby]

Sounds logical to me-mien felt that way and i never got rid of it-maybe the reduction would have helped alot and made me like it more?

 

[elf]

Terry that makes sense. I thought about that after I posted. Jer must have done it to my shock because I dont have any complaints with my shock, Just the lack of plushness in my forks.

 

[terry hay]

Elf
The mod helps with the forks more than the shock so maybe it wasn't done. Do you know if they changed the bushing arrangement? Did you change the needle in the shock?

 

[elf]

Not sure what he did with the bushings, but he did tell me he could put in a solid bushing and that would help.
Yes I have a different needle, A longer one more like the 04 bikes have. I just had my forks serviced and added the enzo subtanks, but my crank bearings just went so I have not had a chance to ride with the subs.The forks work good but when I get off my bike and ride my friends crf the forks just have a plusher feel to them.