Mobil 1 ATF in suspensions?
- Thread starter MikeKX250
- Start date
Yes, it's true. It works fine. Mobil 1 ATF is a 7.6 cSt fluid which is in the neighborhood of most others 10wts. I have used it quite a bit in the bikes I have set up in the past. I won't be using it in the shocks anymore but may still use it in forks at times.:cool:
Pete Payne
MX-Tech Suspension Agent
- Nov 3, 2000
- 933
- 38
Yo Shocknut,
What is the low down on not using it in the shocks? Just curious!!!
Pete.
What is the low down on not using it in the shocks? Just curious!!!
Pete.
Pete,
We had a small fade condition that my riders weren't even really noticing, but I could feel it when bouncing the bike after a moto. It seemed most noticeable in the rebound, like maybe a click or 2 difference. But, these guys are fast, and fast guys dig fast rebound.
Frank Jackson won the Minnesota D23 125 A championshipship on it.
Bill Medek took 2nd 250A and 2nd +25A on it. They never complained about it, rather they were happy with it to be honest. Still it was something I could feel so I decided to blend a shock oil that was heavier than 5wt but with a higher VI than the ATF. Works good. Its roughly 7.5 wt semi synthetic 300VI 6.7cSt. The ATF has a VI of 198 according to Mobil spec sheets.
We had a small fade condition that my riders weren't even really noticing, but I could feel it when bouncing the bike after a moto. It seemed most noticeable in the rebound, like maybe a click or 2 difference. But, these guys are fast, and fast guys dig fast rebound.
Frank Jackson won the Minnesota D23 125 A championshipship on it.
Bill Medek took 2nd 250A and 2nd +25A on it. They never complained about it, rather they were happy with it to be honest. Still it was something I could feel so I decided to blend a shock oil that was heavier than 5wt but with a higher VI than the ATF. Works good. Its roughly 7.5 wt semi synthetic 300VI 6.7cSt. The ATF has a VI of 198 according to Mobil spec sheets.
I would think 450f to be high. We wouldn't be able to touch them by hand if they did reach that temp.
If that is in fact the range of heat that forks are experiencing, another plus for Enzo's tanks. :D
If that is in fact the range of heat that forks are experiencing, another plus for Enzo's tanks. :D
I know that forks don't get that hot.....he was perhaps talking about the shock. That would be pretty hot for a shock also though, I have run heat tests on shocks with pro riders here in FL during 40 min. motos in the sand and seen the heat in the high 300's.
doc
doc
Pete Payne
MX-Tech Suspension Agent
- Nov 3, 2000
- 933
- 38
ShockNut,
Good to know, thanks for the info. I have been having great results using Race Techs oil. It is a little expensive, but works great!!!!---Pete.
Good to know, thanks for the info. I have been having great results using Race Techs oil. It is a little expensive, but works great!!!!---Pete.
Oh, I wanted to add something to this for those HS/enduro type guys. I previously mentioned I had a couple guys do really well on the MX circuit here this year. Then Rob mentioned some higher shock temps with a HS situation.
So, one of the guys I sponsored in HS/Enduro is Stephen Berscheid and he won the 200A class this past season running on the Mobil 1 ATF also. SO, the stuff does hold up to longer heat generating races like HS also. Even his old man Mn KDX'er was using to finish 3rd in Senior A.
My only question is this, Jeremy has stated that it NOT be used in KTM shocks and maybe he would let us know why. It is either a viscosity problem involving internal componentry or it fades under the higher heat of the WP shock??
So, one of the guys I sponsored in HS/Enduro is Stephen Berscheid and he won the 200A class this past season running on the Mobil 1 ATF also. SO, the stuff does hold up to longer heat generating races like HS also. Even his old man Mn KDX'er was using to finish 3rd in Senior A.
My only question is this, Jeremy has stated that it NOT be used in KTM shocks and maybe he would let us know why. It is either a viscosity problem involving internal componentry or it fades under the higher heat of the WP shock??
Stephen Berschied was running a 01 RM125 to win his D23 HS 200A title, he had Mobil ATF in the forks as well. I have setup a lot of guys with TC forks using it. BUT, at the end of the season when it was colder, Stephen preferred the 5wt blend we use. Alot of my customers finished in the top 5 of their classes and most if not all of them were using Mobil ATF in the forks, whether Showa or KYB.
Of late, I have been using more 5wt in the cartridge of the TC forks, but I still prefer to use the ATF in the outer chamber. I can run a little lower oil height(by volume) and get a better effect from the stock oil lock system. In this area, being that Mobil is cheaper, it can save you some money and not to mention that it works really well there. This is one of the beauties of the TC Showa. You CAN run different viscosities to seperate damping and bottoming control. Can't do that anywhere else. Of course, with a bumper fork it don't matter, but when using a oil lock system it can matter. I can't imagine using a 2.5wt on the oil lock systems of the TC Showa. It really kicks butt in the mini forks.
Forgive my plugging of the riders and their accomplishments but all of the guys I sponsored over the last 2 years were picked as midpack riders 2 years ago, with the exception of Frank Jackson who has been a top 5 guy. I'm happy to have been a part of their programs and help them work their way up by providing suspension setup that gives them the control to exploit their true abilities. I don't like to grab the top guys and use them as bill boards. I like to select riders that show potential and work with them to give them whats most important on the track. Mobil ATF has been a part of that over the last 3 years now. So finally, all the work paid off for me in that respect. And, I need to give credit where credit is due, so I have to thank Jeremy for introducing me to the use of the Mobil several years ago. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut huh?
Of late, I have been using more 5wt in the cartridge of the TC forks, but I still prefer to use the ATF in the outer chamber. I can run a little lower oil height(by volume) and get a better effect from the stock oil lock system. In this area, being that Mobil is cheaper, it can save you some money and not to mention that it works really well there. This is one of the beauties of the TC Showa. You CAN run different viscosities to seperate damping and bottoming control. Can't do that anywhere else. Of course, with a bumper fork it don't matter, but when using a oil lock system it can matter. I can't imagine using a 2.5wt on the oil lock systems of the TC Showa. It really kicks butt in the mini forks.
Forgive my plugging of the riders and their accomplishments but all of the guys I sponsored over the last 2 years were picked as midpack riders 2 years ago, with the exception of Frank Jackson who has been a top 5 guy. I'm happy to have been a part of their programs and help them work their way up by providing suspension setup that gives them the control to exploit their true abilities. I don't like to grab the top guys and use them as bill boards. I like to select riders that show potential and work with them to give them whats most important on the track. Mobil ATF has been a part of that over the last 3 years now. So finally, all the work paid off for me in that respect. And, I need to give credit where credit is due, so I have to thank Jeremy for introducing me to the use of the Mobil several years ago. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut huh?
Jeremy Wilkey
Owner, MX-Tech
- Jan 28, 2000
- 1,453
- 0
Shocknut,
Fade? You know well enough that the problem is not so much higher teps as lower.. He btw I've noticed your post about your brew.. Sounds fairly intresting and you have my thoughts captivated..
Anyway the problem with the ATF in PDS shocks is the viscosity issue. Beacuse the shock oves slower than your garden variety KYB/Showa the good enginneers have designed the adjustable bleed circuits with lower viscosity in mind.. This causes adjustment range problems, but mechinancally just fine. As you know I don't actually use straight ATF but I'm ok with Customers using it in non PDS suspension.
As for the Offroaders having higher temps.. I'd like to see the data... Case in point we have had heat related problems with very fast pro-mxers riding over 25 mins... We've been doing Jeff Russels suspension who is a offroad legend.. We've had no problems with heat on his stuff in the GNCC's..I can also say that the afformentioned tunner is claiming speeds that I've found to be unfounded. I don't know beacuse I've been waiting to get some working data aquistion equipment. I've cosulted with bot Ohlins and WP and have found that the speeds are much lower than this tunner claims. I'm not going to say on way or the other on the facts beacuse I have not actually ran the tests.. I can say that the data suggests that offroad shocks don't get hotter..
We are working on answering this question.. I'm waiting for my PDS pump, and then we will be able to build the shock without question the way WP says it should.
And then temps wont' be subjected to other variables..
Regards,
Jer
Fade? You know well enough that the problem is not so much higher teps as lower.. He btw I've noticed your post about your brew.. Sounds fairly intresting and you have my thoughts captivated..
Anyway the problem with the ATF in PDS shocks is the viscosity issue. Beacuse the shock oves slower than your garden variety KYB/Showa the good enginneers have designed the adjustable bleed circuits with lower viscosity in mind.. This causes adjustment range problems, but mechinancally just fine. As you know I don't actually use straight ATF but I'm ok with Customers using it in non PDS suspension.
As for the Offroaders having higher temps.. I'd like to see the data... Case in point we have had heat related problems with very fast pro-mxers riding over 25 mins... We've been doing Jeff Russels suspension who is a offroad legend.. We've had no problems with heat on his stuff in the GNCC's..I can also say that the afformentioned tunner is claiming speeds that I've found to be unfounded. I don't know beacuse I've been waiting to get some working data aquistion equipment. I've cosulted with bot Ohlins and WP and have found that the speeds are much lower than this tunner claims. I'm not going to say on way or the other on the facts beacuse I have not actually ran the tests.. I can say that the data suggests that offroad shocks don't get hotter..
We are working on answering this question.. I'm waiting for my PDS pump, and then we will be able to build the shock without question the way WP says it should.
And then temps wont' be subjected to other variables..
Regards,
Jer
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Yeah, I do know that,particularly with the sled shocks we do. Working from a ambient of near zero is a bit different than one starting at 80.
It is proven fact that shock "fades" more from ambient to warm up than if it goes from operating temp to extreme heat situations.
My goal was to make the lower range more temp stable without having to resort to thin fluid, which I feel kills adjustable range. It works a bit better, but it by no means totally eliminates this problem. I don't think any oil will.
It is proven fact that shock "fades" more from ambient to warm up than if it goes from operating temp to extreme heat situations.
My goal was to make the lower range more temp stable without having to resort to thin fluid, which I feel kills adjustable range. It works a bit better, but it by no means totally eliminates this problem. I don't think any oil will.
