need help on coners they take off too much time!!

[kawi 151]

hi,
I had a race this weekend it was my 1st race on my new 01 cr 125 :p I did real well in m class and I seemed to be one of the fastest riders out there so i have been told... but I still missed the qualifier because of my conering I would pass two or three people off doubles or what not, but when it came to taking the coner they passed me or gained alot of time :( so I figured that I might get some good advice from you guys out there and hopefuly this weekend i will do better due to some good advice so the more the better....thanks

 

[blackhawk468]

This is what I do. After passing an obstacle and coming up to a corner, I accelerate and go as fast as I can. Then when I come up to the corner I set a braking marker, a rock, tree, or whatnot. When I reach that marker I brake hard for the corner and get to the speed I need to be to make the turn comfortably. When I reach the apex of the turn I let off the brakes, and in one motion I stick my foot out, sit down up against on the fuel tank, weigh the outside peg, and give it throttle. I also make sure my outside elbow is out it gives me more control. As soon I can I get my foot back on the peg and stand up. Next time I come up to that corner, I find my marker set a new one closer to the corner, so each time around that corner I'm going a little bit faster. Oh and I always look far ahead, cause the farther you look ahead the faster you can go. Hope this helps.

 

[wardy]

all that information above is true,

but mainly as a beginner rider remember to stay smooth, loose and keep your speed up through the turn. to many riders slow down to much to then only over accelerate and this makes for a very "herky jerk" type corner taking alot of effort and time.
Concentrate on your corners so they comliment your jumping skills and you will be on your way to becoming a better racer.

 

[YoTRacer158]

if you watch different classes race, you'll notice the beginner/C class riders will coast through the turn and styart accelerating as they're comming out of the turn, and the Pro/A class riders are on the pipe basically the whole way through the turn...practice getting on the power sooner in the turn. dont try to just keep it pinned the whole way through, but jsut practice the same turn over and over and each time try to get on the power a little sooner. also, instead of just pinning it and dumping the clutch, ease the power on by slipping the clutch.

 

[Hondaxrguy]

suspension....

I recently had my suspension serviced (it was badly in need) and I was shocked at how much it affected my cornering. The bike would stick much better, and was much more predictable. Weighting the outside footpeg as everyone says help a great deal too. I've noticed that when I weight the outside peg, if the bike starts to drift, I don't lose control because it keeps me balanced on top of the bike, and I just slide with the bike instead of falling. Did that make any sense?:confused:

Jeremy

 

[MRKRacing125]

just clutch it weight the outside peg and blast it

 

[MSR NUT]

Coner????

 

[KawieKX125]

just clutch it weight the outside peg and blast it

Well, this is basic advice MRK, I will eleborate

I recently got very fast at corners. Here is my very complicated technique taught to me by Gary Semics.
1)STAND UP on the straight before the corner while you are braking.
2)If the turn is rutted or has a berm, continue to brake into the first quarter of the turn
3)In one seamless motion, you need to start to sit down while modulating the rear brake and the front brake.
4)Once on your butt on the seat, place brake foot on peg as normal, press and accelerate. Use the clutch properly and strive to minimize traction and maximize acceleration.

This technique will get engrained in your reflexes after a while and will become automatic. That being said, if it souds complicated, it is. If I ever get the chance to ride with you all, ask me to show you the technique.

Next tip, be confident. You have to realize that the bikes are apable of doing some amazing things and as long as you ride them close to properly, they will do those things. Bikes also corner much better while under power.

Hope my advice helped.

 

[Jaybird]

I saw a certain moderator blasting a corner at LTM that was slicker 'n a cat gut, like it was nothing! Reminded me of a flat tracker pinned on a big bore Harley!:eek:

 

[KDXDan]

I have "read" and "learned" about hitting the corners fast, ie. weighing the outside peg, head low, body turned before the bike however I watch the pros turn and have some questions: How much do you weigh the outside peg? Are you fast guys almost standing on one leg? Are you sitting on the outside of the seat? Why do some guys look like their putting their shoulders way outside over the outside peg? :eek: ANd how many of you guys are on the gas hard the hole way through the turn? Some of the faster guys have their bikes screaming when their brake sliding. Thanks

 

[bike chick]

Does the suspension set-up have a lot to do with how well the bike will handle when cornering??? Why I ask is because my suspension on my 125 is basically stock, but, I lowered my forks all the way down so the bike would be a little lower for me. Well, problem is, my bike always feels like the rear wants to wash out on me when I try to get on the gas hard coming out of a corner. I will sometimes ride a yz400 and it feels like I can corner alot better on that than I can my own bike. I wasn't sure if it was the weight difference, the difference between the motors (4 vs. 2-stroke), the suspension, or if it had something to do with the tire tread and/or size. It just feels like my bike doesn't get much traction and won't "stick" whereas I can put the 400 anywhere I want and it'll "stick". Does anyone have any input or can someone help me on this???

 

[Anssi]

bike chick, pulling your fork legs through the clamps will make the bike more twitchy. I wouldn't suggest doing this to make the bike lower.

Suspension definitely does make a big difference in cornering. I don't know the level at which you ride, but a 2-stroke needs to be ridden more aggressively than a four-stroke (yes, even the YZ400F) to get the suspension to work at all.

If you are light as well as short, you might want to click the clickers on your suspension a little softer and also check sag on your bike's rear end.

 

[yardpro]

if your rear end want's to wash out you're probibly too far back on the seat. this sort of slings your rear out.

 

[Whoops]

All the recommendations above are good. There is something else I have noticed in my own experience:scream: and watching good riders:D, the motorcycle has to lean. I know what you are thinking, yea duh. But seriously, if you won't let the bike lean over you won't go fast through a corner. Beginners have a particularly hard time with this. ( I am not saying you are a beginner, I'm just saying its real obvious when you watch a beginner.)

My son is struggling with the same problem. He is fast in a straight line through whoops, jumps, whatever, but he struggles to find the balance between leaning and speed when he is in a corner. Basically he coasts through the 3/4 of the corner and accelerates in the last 1/4 of the turn. I have him working on berms to get used to leaning over and accelerating early in the corner. The next step will be making the same turning motion without the berms.

Whoops

 

[FMX_novice]

No one ever says this, but most beginners dont lean into ruts or berms early enough. Many beginners hit ruts straight up and then start to lean, either falling or bogging 1st gear with a double footplant. Watch the "A" riders at your track, they start to lean into a berm or rut so they lock into it like a rail and get on the gas the whole way through. For flat turns just watch the insane things the guys on (basically) stock Harleys do in flat tracking. Picking the best line through a turn is also important.
Outside(beginning) inside(apex) outside(end) is the ideal line through turns, that only works if berms or ruts do not destroy that arc, or provide for better traction themselves.
Dont brake if you dont have to! Sweepers and 30 degree "turns" should be considered curved straights, no braking involved.
Another important aspect of turning is that if you are leaning while going over a jump you will not get the effect of suspension preload and rebound, this will lower the distance that you jump. Change the way you go through a turn so your not leaning on the face of jumps, unless you are clearing it well while leaning :confused:

 

[roostinbe]

The Dexes, Approach, Exit, and connecting the two

Divide the corner into two sections, braking and accelerating. If you want to be fast, you must never coast! There is no coasting. You should either be braking, or accelerating. If you go into a corner, and brake, then coast then, then brake, then accelerate you are giving up loads of control. The Approach Dex is where you go from accelerating to braking. Most of your braking should take place before you enter the corner. Motocross bikes handle better under acceleration than coasting, or braking. If you get your braking done early, you can accelerate all the way through and out of the corner giving you the maximum amount of control possible. The Exit Dex is where you transition from braking to accelerating. You should slightly overlap the two, in order to maintain maximum control. Just begin to open the throttle slightly before you are completely finished braking. Some lines through corners will require you to go from hard braking, to hard acceleration, others will just require you to transition from slight braking to slight acceleration. If you are squaring up a corner, you can grab the front brake, and give it a little more juice, once you have started to square the turn, forcing the rear wheel to pivot the rest of the bike around the point where your front tire is touching the ground. These methods of cornering makes it a lot easier to get a 2-stroke into the meat of the power without overly abusing the clutch. It is important to remember to keep your upper body (shoulders, torso, arms) square to the direction you are traveling, and centered over the bike. Practice braking for control, not just panic braking. If you are entering a corner, without any really good support for your wheels in your line (ruts, small berms ect.) you can drag your rear brake slightly, which will pull the front end back, and to the inside. Once you learn to corner properly, and your corner speed gets faster, then other obstacles, and rhythem sections (if you race supercross or arenacross) will begin to seem possible, and make a lot more sense. good luck:cool:

 

[Wild Hare]

Good thread!:)

I'd recommend that anybody trying to get faster, find somebody to Tape you racing.....

I though I was on the edge of traction in the corners, until I watched the tape!:confused: Now I know where I need work!:D

 

[Okiewan]

Originally posted by Jaybird
I saw a certain moderator blasting a corner at LTM that was slicker 'n a cat gut, like it was nothing! Reminded me of a flat tracker pinned on a big bore Harley!:eek:

Wardy does love the mud...

 

[Jaybird]

Quite impressive!

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

I have cornering problems on the good dirt

Hard pack is what I'm used to riding on and I can stay in the ruts with no problem. My last two races were on wet sandy loam and I love the stuff only I can't stay in the ruts, as soon as I try to lean and accellerate I jump out of the rut and get all squirlly, this resulted in a couple of falls Sat night. I understand how to do it but I don't have the experiance to do it right. The closest track with that kind of dirt is 100 miles so I never get to practice, I guess I have a delima.:(

 

[Boozer]

Ruts are difficuld because they require a different technique to flat corners or berms with a small slope. Steep berms can be tackled like giant ruts.
We all know that when we take on a small berms or flat corners we need to keep our body upright and 'tip' the bike into the turn. So while our bike is on an angle, our body is remaining upright. This, combined with weighting the outside peg, will place our weight down through the centre of the bike (when looking from above). You also need to be sitting on the outside edge of the seat. This is very important. Make a concious effort to keep your torso upright. If you get a friend to film you while doing this, you will be able to see if your tecnique is correct.

Anyway, about the ruts. They differ because unlike flat corners, you need to lean with the bike. This is beacuse when the tires are stuck in a rut, they have an edge to bite into, just like a really steep angled berm. The harder you hit the rut, the more centrifigul forces you apply to the biting edge of the tyre (which is the knobbies in the middle of the tyre in this case) and therefore more traction. So ruts are usally the fastest way around because you can really 'hammer' into them, but you need heaps of confidence.
But sandy ruts are harder again. In this case, you need to keep your weight slightly back or run the risk of blowing the rut out with the front wheel. This is best done by keeping your weight forward and using your shoulders to lean back. This way it is easy for you to lean back and fourth quickly to compensate for different reactions the bike may make. This is a very good tip, and can be used in all corners, especially hardpack. If you develop rear wheel spin when leaving a corner, leaning back will quickly provide traction for the back tyre. It all depends on how deep the rut is, but if we are talking quite deep ruts (shallow ruts can be seen as naturally made berms) then they should be very similar to hard pack ruts.

If you are having trouble in ruts, it might be because of the sensation a rut gives to the bike. You must not try to steer a bike through the rut, because you run the risk of popping a wheel out of the rut. Let the rut guide the bike through, and this can be difficuld to do.

As with all cornering in general, keep you wight well forward, your elbows up and out, chin up and over the cross bar. Use the door knob technique to controll the throttle, and of your elbows are indeed up and out, then this should come naturally. As you approch the apex of the corner, any corner rutted or flat, you need to TURN your head and LOOK to the exit of the corner. A general rule is to look two bike lengths ahead for each gear you are in, and even futher in gears above 3rd. This is what seperates a really good rider from a not so good one. You must keep your head up and look well ahead in front. This will ensure 1: you have ample time to plan your route and to look for dangerous objects you need to avoid to remain smooth. Very important when going down steep, rocky hills. This is probaly the best example of where looking ahead will give you enough time to plan your route.
2: It will keep your static balance in order. Just like a runner or bush walker needs to look forward to prevent getting dizzy and headaches, we too need to look up. 3: When everything is working, you do indeed 'go where you look'. And when things do go bad and you loose confidence, you again go where you look. Its usally straight towards a big rock or tree. So if you conciously look towards your exit, you will be there before you know it and thats a fantastic feeling.

Just to add a bit onto roostinbes post about braking. Most of your braking power will come from the front brake, but the back must not be neglected. Its easy on todays modern four stroke MXers to forget the back brake because of their great engine braking. But, using the back brake in conjunction with the front will stabilize the bike and cause the rear end to squat a bit. By pulling the rear end down, it will enable the rider to apply even more pressure to the front if needed. It is also good to set the bike up through a flat corner by using the back brake to slide to bike a bit before the corner. This will move the bike into the direction you are turning and make cornering a bit easier, but don't think its okay to powerslide through with the back wheel hanging out. Smooth is fast, and hanging the rear end isn't smooth. Really good riders do it, but they usally have the front wheel juuust braking traction, so they are actually drifting the bike through the turn. In these instances, the rider is using virtually ALL of the available traction, and therefore thats the fastest way around possible.

 

[MX823]

All the advice above is great! But just trying to be fast through a turn is all wrong. Slow down ! Use the above advice and work on your mechanics first.
The difference between riders are this, anyone can be fast on a straight. What seperates an AM from an expert is cornering! yeah obstacles come into play, but turns are where the riders can seperate themselves.

Set up drills, and start out slow[think about braking body positioning, mechanics]. Do circle drills [one continous circle] , oval shaped [working on transition to braking accelerating] and figure 8's.
Vary terrain, and conditions to simulate different surfaces ie sand, hard packed rutted. In these drills use cones, rocks or sticks for braking and accelerating as you improve you can bring them closer together. Speed will start to develop then.

Good luck! Even the best riders can improve their turns so don't become frusrated, keeping working and practicing a 1/2 hour everytime you ride. In a few weeks improvements will come.

 

[Boozer]

a freind of mine once told me about a riding school he once attended. it was run by Steve Gall ( a well respected veteran motocrosser who has a text book riding style) and his associates. At the end of the day, riders were left to practice their skills on their own, and my friend spotted Steve out in the field all alone on his bike. He was out practicing figure 8's! He would have been there for 15 minutes just carving in a track, working to perfect his style and balance. I straight away started thinking that if a rider of that level can find some benifit from doing simple practice drills, i surely can! so now i make it a habbit, and after a while its fun to do them.