need help testing ignition
- Thread starter texas rat
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If the bike will run until you go past half throttle, it probably is not an electrical problem. I would guess that your jetting needs work. Take the carb off, clean it well, put it back on and see if that fixes the problem. Often a speck of water or dirt can get stuck in the main jet and cut off the gas supply so the bike runs horribly lean, killing the bike.
If cleaning the carb doesn't help, and you just got the bike, or just moved to a different elevation, you need to rejet. Talk to the parts guy at your local dealer, and they should be able to tell you the proper jetting (assuming of course that you can still get jets for your bike)
If none of that helps (I can almost guarantee that that's your problem, but...) try cleaning the points. Just take the left side cover off (careful not to strip the screws) and you should be able to stick a points file or emery board through a hole in the flywheel and file the points down (just use a screwdriver to gently pry them apart, close them on the file, and run it back and forth about 4 times). Then use a piece of paper (business cards work well) and run several strips through the points until they stop coming out discolored. Put the side cover back on and you should be ready to rip. You could also try using a new spark plug.
If cleaning the carb doesn't help, and you just got the bike, or just moved to a different elevation, you need to rejet. Talk to the parts guy at your local dealer, and they should be able to tell you the proper jetting (assuming of course that you can still get jets for your bike)
If none of that helps (I can almost guarantee that that's your problem, but...) try cleaning the points. Just take the left side cover off (careful not to strip the screws) and you should be able to stick a points file or emery board through a hole in the flywheel and file the points down (just use a screwdriver to gently pry them apart, close them on the file, and run it back and forth about 4 times). Then use a piece of paper (business cards work well) and run several strips through the points until they stop coming out discolored. Put the side cover back on and you should be ready to rip. You could also try using a new spark plug.
joereitman
Member
- Jul 2, 2003
- 540
- 0
had same prob on 74 xl. It was the lil barrel shaped unit, think it is called a condenser. Also check the points.
*walks over to bookshelf to grab Elsinore manual; realizes it's out in the shed with the bikes*
On my MR175, it has the condenser mounted underneath the gas tank instead of next to the points. I cannot remember where the CR's had it. If it is under the gas tank, theoretically it is designed to last forever. If it is in next to the points, the condenser is supposed to be replaced every so often. My 1974 yamaha DT175 has it in by the points, and it just went bad. You can tell that the condenser is bad if, after cleaning the points, getting a new spark plug, and checking all connections, the bike has intermittent spark (ie you kick it over with the plug against the cylinder head and it sparks maybe once or twice (or is really weak) instead of a fat spark near the top of every stroke of the piston. Texas said that his bike runs until he gets it to 1/2 throttle. While the higher throttle position does increase the compression (making it harder for the spark plug to spark), it should not be a great enough of a difference to kill the spark suddenly at a specific throttle position.
What kind of carb is on there? There should be a very small (less than half an inch wide) flat spot on the side of the carb that has numbers on it. Post the numbers and I'll check my manual and see if it's the right carb.
On my MR175, it has the condenser mounted underneath the gas tank instead of next to the points. I cannot remember where the CR's had it. If it is under the gas tank, theoretically it is designed to last forever. If it is in next to the points, the condenser is supposed to be replaced every so often. My 1974 yamaha DT175 has it in by the points, and it just went bad. You can tell that the condenser is bad if, after cleaning the points, getting a new spark plug, and checking all connections, the bike has intermittent spark (ie you kick it over with the plug against the cylinder head and it sparks maybe once or twice (or is really weak) instead of a fat spark near the top of every stroke of the piston. Texas said that his bike runs until he gets it to 1/2 throttle. While the higher throttle position does increase the compression (making it harder for the spark plug to spark), it should not be a great enough of a difference to kill the spark suddenly at a specific throttle position.
What kind of carb is on there? There should be a very small (less than half an inch wide) flat spot on the side of the carb that has numbers on it. Post the numbers and I'll check my manual and see if it's the right carb.
joereitman
Member
- Jul 2, 2003
- 540
- 0
When my condenser went south cutting out above half throttle was the exact symptom...
Ok, that is the wrong carb for the bike. All Elsinores come stock with Keihin carbs, not Mikuni. That carb may however be the hop-up race carb for that year, I'm not sure. Due to the popularity of that bike, I am sure you could find a vintage racing forum for Elsinores and ask.
I just looked in my manual and the CR250M (but not the CR250R) does have the condenser that needs periodic replacement. To test the condenser, remove it from the bike and connect the lead (wire) to the negative terminal on a six volt battery, and the positive terminal on the battery to the condenser case. Allow it to charge for a few seconds, then quickly disconnect it and touch the lead to the condenser case. If there is a spark when it touches, the condenser is good. If no spark, you'll need to replace it.
I just looked in my manual and the CR250M (but not the CR250R) does have the condenser that needs periodic replacement. To test the condenser, remove it from the bike and connect the lead (wire) to the negative terminal on a six volt battery, and the positive terminal on the battery to the condenser case. Allow it to charge for a few seconds, then quickly disconnect it and touch the lead to the condenser case. If there is a spark when it touches, the condenser is good. If no spark, you'll need to replace it.
Hey guys. I just bought my first dirt bike, a '90 KTM EXC 300 a couple of weeks ago. Haven't had time to mess with it much since. When I first saw it, it was on a trailer, it was about 5?F out but I was able to eventually kick it over and get it to run. I ran is briefly once after that in the drive way. Tearing up some snow, but it died after a couple of minutes. I think it ran out of gas. I decided to put it away for the night after that.
Last night I was trying to start 'er up again but to no avail. I ended up pulling the tank, to get to the plug. I've found that the spark is very weak. It'll spark once or twice and then nothing. It appears that somebody before me has been in there disconnecting some wires (head/tail lights). I'm not sure how that affects the bike (shouldn't right?).
I was told that the bike was in good running order, and I have seen it run just fine last time I was playing with it. Any ideas? what should I look for?
Thanks ahead of time.
Matt
Last night I was trying to start 'er up again but to no avail. I ended up pulling the tank, to get to the plug. I've found that the spark is very weak. It'll spark once or twice and then nothing. It appears that somebody before me has been in there disconnecting some wires (head/tail lights). I'm not sure how that affects the bike (shouldn't right?).
I was told that the bike was in good running order, and I have seen it run just fine last time I was playing with it. Any ideas? what should I look for?
Thanks ahead of time.
Matt
Ok, for starters, take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I do not have very much experience with cdi's, and no experience whatsoever with ktms.
First step. get a brand new sparkplug and try that. If that doesn't help, disconnect the kill switch.
Disconnecting the lights should not affect the spark circuit. But, since they did fool around with the wiring, you should probably find a wiring diagram (from the manual if you have one, if not, check the internet.) and make sure all of the wires for the spark circuit are connected properly, and that none of the other wires are connected to the spark circuit (When my uncle and I first got my honda running, it would die after a few seconds. turned out that when the previous owner stripped the lights he connected the power wire for the lights to the power wire for the spark circuit. Since that wire bypassed the points, it wasn't sparking right). After that, I would find any and all ground wires, (for the cdi and the ignition coil) and take a piece of sand paper to the connecter and the frame. If it still isn't fixed, start twisting, pulling, and bending the wires. If the spark suddenly cuts out or comes back when you do something to a wire, you've got a bad wire that needs replacing. If all the above steps fail, your problem rests in a faulty part. There are some tests you can perform on the primary coil and ignition coil, but I doubt they are the same as the ones for my (OLD) bike, so you'll have to check in the manual. As for the CDI, I believe you have to take it into a shop with special diagnostic equipment. Either that or borrow one from somebody with the same bike ;)
First step. get a brand new sparkplug and try that. If that doesn't help, disconnect the kill switch.
Disconnecting the lights should not affect the spark circuit. But, since they did fool around with the wiring, you should probably find a wiring diagram (from the manual if you have one, if not, check the internet.) and make sure all of the wires for the spark circuit are connected properly, and that none of the other wires are connected to the spark circuit (When my uncle and I first got my honda running, it would die after a few seconds. turned out that when the previous owner stripped the lights he connected the power wire for the lights to the power wire for the spark circuit. Since that wire bypassed the points, it wasn't sparking right). After that, I would find any and all ground wires, (for the cdi and the ignition coil) and take a piece of sand paper to the connecter and the frame. If it still isn't fixed, start twisting, pulling, and bending the wires. If the spark suddenly cuts out or comes back when you do something to a wire, you've got a bad wire that needs replacing. If all the above steps fail, your problem rests in a faulty part. There are some tests you can perform on the primary coil and ignition coil, but I doubt they are the same as the ones for my (OLD) bike, so you'll have to check in the manual. As for the CDI, I believe you have to take it into a shop with special diagnostic equipment. Either that or borrow one from somebody with the same bike ;)
Thanks a ton. I just got back from the local bike shop with a new plug and spark plug boot. I'm going to start there and work my way down the list. If it's not the plug/boot, i've got a haunting suspicion it's s bad wire connecting from the circus of spliced and reconnected wires.
Again thanks. I'll keep ya posted.
matt
Again thanks. I'll keep ya posted.
matt
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