New Rider With Questions About Street Bikes!

[BossTweed]

Hello Everyone!

I was reading up on these threads and liked what I saw so I thought that I would post. I am a new motorcycle rider and would really like to get a 600 cc street bike and go cruising with my friend down to the river and up in the Sierra Mountains during the summer (he is also a beginning rider).

My Background:
First off before anyone jumps to conclusions or takes me as another reckless 18 year old who has no idea what they are getting into I thought I would just explain a bit about my demeanor, exct. I am really level headed and do not take risks that I do not think are worth the consequences. I always drive the speed limit (no more then 5 mph over) in my car, I don't drink or party, and I am going to attend a University of California College next year (i.e. UC Berkeley, UCLA). I have been trying to get some experience with bikes ever since my friend and I became excited about riding. I have started to go to a friends house to learn on a 125 cc honda dirtbike. I also have driven around mini bikes before. Nothing to merit experience enough for a street bike but it is definetely better then nothing. I realize that I barely have any experience but was wondering if it would still be possible to buy and ride a streetbike as soon as this summer.

So My Questions Are:

Am I too lofty in my goal to learn to ride a streetbike so early, or can one learn to ride on one without much experience (I realize this is a stupid question for gun-ho teens but just take into account the background info I gave)?

I am looking at something like a 600 cc CBR, R1, GSXR, exct. I realize how powerful these machines are, and if it is totally out of the question what would be a better beginning street bike?

I was also wondering if my build might make it hard to ride? I am 6'4", 190 lbs and do not know if my size would make it hard to ride any of the aforementioned bikes.

What are the best ways to gain experience needed to ride on the street?


Thank you for those of you who reply. I really feel that the other kids going over 100 in their new gixxers and passing cars on the double yellow are the ones that give motorcycle riding the dangerous label. I would never even consider getting anything over 600 cc to begin with, and this is the maximum power bike I would want to ride (I realize this is probably too much to begin with anyway but the models in the 600 cc range appeal greatly to me). I know that there are a bunch of other factors (cars don't see you, things can happen) that add to crashes/injuries but is it possible for a level headed rider to make it in the motorcycle street world??

Any input, info, websites, or comments that could help me in my quest would be wonderful. Please don't hesitate to criticise, as I am open to what experienced riders think, but please keep it constructive.

Thanks Guys! :cool:

-Boss Tweed

 

[Thumpitythumpity]

Bad idea for first street bike:
http://www.hayabusa.org/
Better ideas for first street bikes:
http://www.motorcycletouringineurope.com/motorcycles.html
The guys here would likely just put knobbies on the Hayabusa, junk the fairing, and call it a dual sport.
Good luck!

 

[jaction125]

You sound level headed. Motorcycles are still dangerous. Start with MSF course, and look at the new Kawi 650r. Also look at the Suzuki SV line, it is a bike that can grow with you.


links below!

http://www.msf-usa.org/

http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2005/06Ninja650/Ninja650.asp


http://www.svrider.com/

 

[BossTweed]

Thanks for the replys guys.
Yeah I am definetely taking the msf course and will continue riding dirtbikes at friend's houses while I learn. Any more help?
Also in reply to the comment about the 2k6 Kawa Ninja, it is a 650cc but still a good beginner bike? Just curious?

 

[dante]

if you go to UCLA you can ride Topanga, and Latigo everyday!

 

[Jamz]

As far as a bike the SV650 is a good bike. I used to race and many people ran these on the track. So there are very powerful and will run with the best. BUT they are also cheaper and a more comfortable riding position. Also bikes like an older honda F3 (95-96)/or later F4i or even the Yamaha 600R notice I did not say the R6. These two are good sport bike starter bikes and also makes for a comfortable ride with more street frendly ergos. They have more friendly power but trust me....they will haul butt. My wife has a 96 F3....and it will hit 145 - 150.

As far as starting out. If your friends like to ride fast do not ride with them. More people especially novice ridders get in a crowd of faster guys and end up crashing big time. You get caught up in it all. And also you start tailing a guy who is way faster then you and you don't realize your speed until you reach a corner and freeze and go flying. I never ride with guys I did NOT know. And if someone falls in behind me I slow it down or just leave them as fast as possible or even wave them off.

Street riding is fun....and I am a firm belive that dirt riding makes you a better street rider. Take the course at the beginning, then get some riding experince, then go to a track day that has a novice group w/ a class. I guarantee you will learn how to handle the bike and plus you will play it alot more safe on the street after that. You realize that you can easily drag a knee around a turn at 120+ mph with the tires sliding and the whole time you are giving it throttle and completly relaxed on the track and so taking a turn on the street at high speeds(aka 80mph) seems kinda silly so you just ride to relax and see the scenery and have a nice time out.

 

[michigan]

Wear gear. You're probably safer on a Haybusa when dressed in leather than on a Rebel 250 in a t-shirt.

 

[FruDaddy]

You should veer away from full on sport bikes. The SV650, Ninja 500, and FZ6 would all make good beginner bikes. Assuming you are familiar with clutch operation, you should be fine.
I recommend buying a used bike in fair to good condition as you will probably drop it within the first 6 months. Hopefully at low speed, but it will scar the bike. If the bike is too pretty, it will make you cry.
Also, when you do purchase your first street bike, don't even think of riding it home. Either haul it, or have an experienced friend ride it home for you. Your first hour of riding should be in a vacant parking lot. Also, if you know someone that rides, have that person escort you on you first few rides to tell you what you are doing wrong, and to be there if things go wrong. The MSF course is a good idea. In most states, if you pass it, you get your license. Also, some insurance companies give discounts to riders that have completed the MSF.

 

[CaNaDiAn,Eh?]

I definitely agree with everyone who has said the SV 650. If that's the style of big you're into it would be perfect.

 

[BossTweed]

Thanks for all the input guys!
I really appreciate it.
I looked at the bikes mentioned, and although they seem very decent I really have my heart set on either a 600cc r6, gsxr, or cbr. Between these are there any that would be the best for a beginning rider, or all the all flat out of my league. I realize that it would be better to start on one of the bikes mentioned, but I really like the looks (how shallow of me :( ) and style of the gsxr, r6, and cbr better. Please let me know if there would be a best within those three.

Thanks!
BossTweed

 

[FruDaddy]

I once met a guy that started on a GSXR600 and dropped it within 15 minutes. Totalled it within a month. HIs friends were sport bike riders and he listened to them. You're taking your chances if you go that route. If it's just the full plastic kit, the Ninja 500, Katana 750, and YZF600R might be more to your liking, although the 500 is a bit boxy and the Katana reminds me of a fat girl.

 

[jaction125]

The new kawi 650r is a v-twin, along the lines of the sv650. Great beginner bike! Looks more sporty than the sv imho.

I know you want a gsxr type bike, but why rush into it? If you buy a sv (used sv's can be had really cheap) or 650r and ride it for a year, sell it next year at a limited loss, then find the bike you really want. Just a wise way to go about it if you ask me. Granted you will find a lot of people that say "I started on a 1000, and I'm not dead"


You can't talk to the guys that killed themselves on those bikes.

 

[tyesai]

As far as those three bikes you want if you must have one of those just pick the one you like the looks of the best. Modern sportbikes I believe are even closer in performance than modern quads and dirtbikes.

That said I have owned an EX500, SV650, CBR600F3, and a Hayabusa. I have extensively rode a Sportster and a late 80's early 90's ZX9 and taken a spin on a 900RR. Hands down my favorite bike I ever rode/owned was that naked SV650, torque out the butt, turned like a champ, and aftermarket exhausts and cool little carbon fiber bits and pieces are cheap.

I have to recommend the SV, it doesn't have the cool factor of the all plastic bikes but IMHO it is probably one the best bikes for begginers and you won't out grow it for a long time, not even on a racetrack.

 

[CRguyStan]

Sorry for the long reply
Stan

First I agree that a non-sport bike is easier to learn with more confortable ergos to allow you to relax. But you seem destined to get a sport bike, so keep using your head and do what was said before...start in a parking lot. A local civic center complex usually has only light poles in your way, and tons of room. Get out there a few times (5-6) for 30-60 minutes each time to get used to how the street bike reacts differently than street bikes. I raced MX growing up and got my first street bike at 17, thought I was gonna die on the ride home. I went into the first very slight curve and could not get this thing to turn. Remember that you counter steer as a beginner, this forces your body to lean and thus makes the bike turn.
After the large parking lot, find a small neighborhood with 25mph speed limits and little traffic (ie sunday morning) and ride around there to get used to maintaining your lane. This will also help with the many stop signs to get you used to stopping at the right spot and negotiating turns with small pebbles. Progress to busier streets from there.
A few things to watch are:
0. YOUR FRONT BRAKE IS YOUR FRIEND. Learn that while going straight you can use virtually as much front brake as needed if you have good tires. The rear I use more for trail braking to scrub slight amounts of speed in a turn if entering too hot for comfort. SLIGHT braking in turns the first year.
1. Every car is speedin toward the mall on the cellphone, not looking for you, especially in the spring when bikes are coming back out (wait, we get snow..)
2. At intersections watch a stopped car's front tire for rotation, you will see this far quicker than the car moving, learn to get on your honr/flash high beams if you even think they are going.
3. Watch the tree lines and power lines if present to see where the road turns ahead on new roads.
4. Ride the tire grooves of the road, not the middle, this is where all the oil from cars sit.
5. Always move in the lane, ie ride the outside line for left turns, inside for right turns. If in a multi lane highway stay out of the blind spot and ride the line away from the car you are beside.
6. Sand patches/gravel, hold what you got, just ride through with a "loose" grip and allow the bars to shimmy a bit.
7. Railroad tracks on extreme angles, try to square up to cross as perpendicualr as possible.
8. Don't be cheap....street bikes are not like cars when it comes to tires. There may be a full tire of tread and they are junk, being as you ride on a 1"x3" contact patch per tire, I always like my street bike tires to be soft. I never keep tires from season to season (again northern comment, cold riding sucks) when they get hard from too many heat cycles, it is time to replace, hopefully in CA yours will last till worn out.

 

[gowen]

I ride with a bunch of friends and about 90% of them have R6's. About 80% of them started out on them. You will be fine, my first street bike was a '01 R1. I've been in dirtbikes most of my life. I think the power of a modern supersport 600 (r6, gsxr, zx, cbr, ect.) are easier to use than most other bikes. They are forgiving unless revved out to the moon. But they are a bitch to handle. I'd recommend riding one before purchasing. the steering will throw you off because it is not like riding a normal street bike. Good luck and you are on the right track. And a hayabusa is a overgrown pig, not even a consideration. ;-) It reminds me of a caddy with a northstar. Makes decent power for its weight, but any modern supersport will outrun it to the high 100s. X-D Just had to add that in.

EDIT: Take the MSF course, it is worth its weight in gold! :cool:

 

[holeshot]

2. At intersections watch a stopped car's front tire for rotation, you will see this far quicker than the car moving, learn to get on your honr/flash high beams if you even think they are going.

That works until you come across a car that has spinner type hub caps/wheels (inner wheel keeps spinning when the car comes to a stop - you've seen 'em). :ohmy:

 

[mx547]

who are you trying to fool? there is no way that if you get one of those bikes you listed, that you wouldn't be over 100mph. heck, i'm 46 years old, family, level-headed, i guarantee you that if i had one of those bikes, i would be over 100mph the first day.

 

[tx246]

22yrs street/18yrs dirt..............

there are two reasons to stay away from "sportbikes" like the cbr, zx, r1 ect.

1. they are fragile. drop one off the kickstand (and you will) and it could easily cost $1000 to replace that cool plastic.

2. these bikes have the highest insurance claim rates (see #1) and therefore are very expensive to insure. for a youngster as yourself with no street experience, your monthly insurance payment could easily be more than the bike payment.

of course money may not be a consideration for the reasons above but there are pracitcal reasons cited below.

sportbikes are great for the track but do not reflect real world streetbike needs. sportbikes are cruel to the human form. why do you think everyone rides so fast on them? they are in a hurry to get to a destination so they can get off the thing!! ive seen it time and time again. ive been on trips in some of the best (curvy) roads in the country and the people im traveling with who bitch and want to pull in every other town are on sportbikes. even in the best environment for a sportbike on the street, you dont want to ride. your a begginer right? why would you want to be uncomfortable riding while trying to learn what it takes to stay alive and gain experience? seat time is the best thing for a begginer like yourself and you are much more prone to ride if your butt/back like the seat.

dont worry about performance. unless you are a fighter pilot, pretty much any motorcycle you pick will have more hp/lb and better brakes than anything you have ridden/driven before. i vote for sv650, kawasaki z750s, or maybe the fz6. all are very good bikes. as with all things motorcycle, its about the rider and not so much the machine. acquiring the rider skill takes lots of seattime. anybody can twist a throttle in a straight line......they are called squids and posers........dont be one.

you are 6'4 and that does not fold up well on the little "sportbikes". they are little for a reason....for the track. at your size i would consider getting the best of both worlds. go dirt/street combo honda xr650l or klr650 which are both cheap to own/operate.

all of that said, i ride a zrx1100 which is a sport standard and is quite capable on the street. it has the zx10 nija motor in it and the difference in insuring the zrx vs the zx10 is about $600 a year. i havent had a zx10 pass me yet. i like big torque motors because i dont have to shift as often and i can concentrate on lean angles. i also sport tour with the wife on the back from time to time. if the wife didnt go, i would be on something smaller.

on a final note.........if any of the above does not change your mind about owning a "sportbike", then do yourself a favor and buy a 5 yr old sportbike for 3k and dont bother getting full coverage. it could save you a lot of money. if you do drop it (and you will) and the damage is too bad, walk away and go find another bike.

 

[BossTweed]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the the lengthy posts, they really help.

Just to clarify I am actually 6' 5'' (my mistake before :) ) and I will definetely take the MSF course.

TX- Thank you for your long post. I appreciate what you had to say and you are probably right. The flashy looks of the gsxr, cbr, and r6 are what attract 18 year olds as myself. I am not too worried about the performance (granted that I would like something I can shift and go at least 55 in for the highway) and though looks are important its not worth getting killed/dropping the bike. I really appreciate your insight and I can see how getting one of the 600cc might be a bad idea. But lets delve into the other bikes that have come up: sv650, z750s, and fz6. It seems to me that these are like the other street bikes without the fairings. The bikes do not look anymore comfortable, bigger (for my size), or uncapable of high speeds as the gsxr and cbrs. If anyone could possibly tell me why these are better beginner bikes then that would be great. I am only look at online pictures and have not seen one in real life so I am unsure whether or not I am missing something. If they are more affordable, safer, more comfortable (tx will they not make you want to pull into every town like the other bikes??), and reliable then that probably outweighs getting the looks of the other bikes. I would like to know which is the best for comfort and reliability. I like the fx6 because the exhaust is under the bike, other then that all 3 look very similar so if I could get any insight form experienced riders that would be great.

If I do buy a gsxr, cbr, or r6 it will definetely be a 2000 model or earlier. But if I can get more info on why the others are better beginner bikes I will seriously consider switching my goals.

mx- No I am not going to go 100 mph on the first day, that is definetely not a level headed thing to do. I would be WAY too scared to even attempt that. I doubt I would ever do it after years of experience either. I have driven in performance cars and never driven over 65...

Stan- Your post was awesome thank you very much for your insight. I am planning on doing what you said with the 30-60 minute learning sessions.

Thanks!

 

[CaNaDiAn,Eh?]

Well this is just my opinion, but if you say you are going to get this bike and not ride it 'fast' then why bother getting a bike that is specifically designed to go insanely fast? I know you say that you wouldn't be tempted to go really fast, but I'll tell you one thing, I am a pretty level headed, careful, cautious person, but if I get on a bike that can go fast, I will. I won't drive like a maniac, but I will definitely be attempted to errr explore it's capabilities...haha.

Have you gone to any bike dealers and actually sat on some of these bikes yet? It would definitely be a good idea to go check some out and see how they fit. Go sit on one of those sportbikes and really think about whether you could actually force your body to stay in that position for any length of time. I'm not a tall person by any means, I'm only a 5'8 and I find sportbikes insanely uncomfortable, I could not stay on one long enough to get a decent ride in, and personally I could not imagine buying a bike that makes my body cry everytime I try to ride it.

If you can take the MSF course before you buy a bike that might be a good option. That way you will have some skills, and will have your license by the time you get around to actually buying a bike. That way you can actually take some test drives, and see what feels good to you.

Someone above mentioned a KLR-650, I really don't think it's what you're looking for, but if you decide to go in that direction, it is a great bike. My dad had one that I rode the street with, and it was a great bike. Nowhere near the performance of a sport bike but it would be a great bike to learn on.

The other bikes mentioned, are designed to appear as sport style bikes, and in a way they are. But they are not designed to have the same power characteristics of a full on sportbike. They are meant to be a more forgiving ride, but still maintain the looks of a sportbike.

Just some things to think about, sorry about the long rambling post, I'm trying to avoid cleaning my apartment, and am pretty much typing whatever spews out of my head...haha. Good luck in the search!

 

[geraldo]

Hey I started off with a 125. I know plenty of kids who started off with a 600 and plenty of them are in jail or do not have a bike. I now own a 650 dirt bike and at the current time have no desire to buy a sport bike. Although, one day I will own one, but the street is dangerous if you make a mistake. Many of my friends have been successful at starting with a 600 sport bike but I guarantee in a skills challenge I will own them.
Matt Fuhrer

 

[FruDaddy]

If you look more closely at the naked bikes, you should notice that there is significantly more padding and contour on the seats. Also, the bars (there are actually bars) are mounted on risers, instead of the low mount clip-ons. You won't have to be leaned over as far. They are also a little more liveable in the lower RPM range. If you get a chance, stop by you local dealer and sit on a couple of bikes. While you are up there, imagine sitting in that same position for 3-4 hours. You should understand. Also, the initial purchase price and insurance will be lower on these bikes. Look at price tags and call your insurance agent.

 

[tyesai]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the the lengthy posts, they really help.

Just to clarify I am actually 6' 5'' (my mistake before :) ) and I will definetely take the MSF course. I really appreciate your insight and I can see how getting one of the 600cc might be a bad idea. But lets delve into the other bikes that have come up: sv650, z750s, and fz6. It seems to me that these are like the other street bikes without the fairings. The bikes do not look anymore comfortable, bigger (for my size), or uncapable of high speeds as the gsxr and cbrs. If anyone could possibly tell me why these are better beginner bikes then that would be great. I am only look at online pictures and have not seen one in real life so I am unsure whether or not I am missing something.
mx- No I am not going to go 100 mph on the first day, that is definetely not a level headed thing to do. I would be WAY too scared to even attempt that. I doubt I would ever do it after years of experience either. I have driven in performance cars and never driven over 65...
Thanks!

You are going to have to look at them in person to see what we are talking about. From pics on the net it may be hard to tell the difference but once you see them and sit on them you will have a much better understanding. An inch here, a half inch there will make all the difference in the comfort of a motorcylce, and being as big of guy as you are going to want that extra inch in the right place. That inch will make a big difference in comfort. You are going to be scrunched up on almost any bike but on a true sport bike you are going to be in the fetal position.

As far as the speed and power thing goes you are almost right, they are just a tad slower than the more serious race bikes but it is how they make the power that makes all the difference, much more torquey, wich is what counts in the real world, they aren't going to have a big hit of power nearly as bad as the true race bikes. I had a friend of mine that had a R6 when I owned my SV650, the difference was was that my bike made power everywhere, his was like a dog until around 8 grand then things happened fast, the tach would rise FAST and at around 11 best be hanging on because here comes the front wheel. The power would have been awsome except for it was so peaky it could make things interesting and dicey. The only time he could ever loose me was on a long straight, but I never cared, carving back roads I was all over his butt for about 3000 dollars less.

As far as speeding goes, maybe you are a better person than alot of us. I got rid of my street bikes because I swear they hide a stupid switch in the seat. I was taking my Busa home from the dealer and made it less than ten miles down the road before I was well over a hundred. That thing didn't feel good though untill triple digit speeds. Wich is another point. True race bikes are O.K. for riding around town but don't really shine untill you are around 100mph. The more street oriented bikes still work great at speed, but they also work great around a parking lot.

Just some more stuff to think about and take the MSF, I would take it every couple years when I rode alot just to see what bad habits I had developed.

Finally check on the insurance rates, before you buy. I was 25 years old, married and wanted to buy a ZX11. Insurance was quoted to me anywhere between 3-11 THOUSAND dollars a year. My record is was/clean and I have excellent credit. Alot of those bikes we are trying to sway you toward are considered standard motorcycles not "crotch rockets" or "super bikes" so the insurance is considerably cheaper.

 

[BossTweed]

So I just called in to my AAA insurance to see if what you guys said about the difference between a sport bike vs other such as SV650 was correct. After calling I found out that a 2001 cbr 600 would cost 2845 for comprehensive coverage, or 902 for liability. This takes into account that I technically have 0 years of licensed motorcycle experience. For a 2001 SV650 the comprehensive rate would be 2906 dollars, more then the cbr! The liability would be slightly less in the high 870-900 range. So there really is no difference in the insurance for these bikes.

On a different note I went in to a local used motorcycle shop and talked with the guy running the shop for a while. He was really friendly and helped me out with my questions. He told me that it did not exactly matter what I began to ride on, sv650 or a cbr 600. The difference he said was in the higher rpm range and faster speeds which can make the cbr more dangerous. He said that if you puttered around 50-60 miles an hour on the highway that there would not be much of a difference between which bike you began on. I do not believe he was biased either, because he had a used SV650 sitting in his shop and no cbr was in sight. I was able to sit on the sv650 and it feels like a very comfortable bike. I also was able to glean that the gsxr and the r6 are not right for my height or frame, and that if I would go the streetbike route that a cbr600 tends to fit a wider range of riders and isn't as tight a squeeze as the other two models.

I am wondering you guys agree with this, and what you think.

Thanks for all the input again! It is very helpful!

BossTweed

 

[tyesai]

I agree completely, the CBR's have been known to fit people better in general and at lower RPM's all of the bikes are relatively tame. It is just after the lower RPM's.

As far as insurance goes, call around, I can't stress that enough. You may save tons of money by changing insurance companies. State Farm goes only by displacement not if it is a sport bike or a cruiser. I have also had good luck with Allstate. Insurance varies so much though you just have to waste 4 hours of your life and go through a phone book asking for quotes untill you want to scream. I used to do it about every 6 months untill I bought a house and now for me it is just to much trouble.

My vote is still and almost always be the SV. I miss mine :(

Get what you want/like but there is a ton of good advice coming your way from lots of different people. Seriously look at the more street orientated sport bikes rather than a true race bike.