of Block Passes and Brake Checks (RC v. TP)

[WhiPit]

Yeah, I know....everyone's sick of this subject. But I've been reading through other posts on this subject (here and on other boards) and there is something else about this incident that is starting to bug me.

I'll call it "MX-TERMINOLOGY". It seems as though everyone who thinks the collision is RC's fault also seems to think that RC gave Travis a "brake-check". And here's my problem - it wasn't a brake-check in the "traditional" meaning of the word. RC attempted a "block-pass" - two very different things.

My theory is that people who refer to it as a brake check are new(er) to this sport. The real brake-check is given when the rider in front goes into a turn with another rider right on his tail, in the same line. Rider number one then applies the brakes, causing rider number two to either run into the back of rider one - or, rider number two applies his brakes hard enough to stall and/or bobble momentarily. In other words, rider number one is causing rider number two to "check his brakes".

Jimmy Weinert was the king (and disputed inventor) of the "brake-check".

What RC attempted (if it was intentional at all) was the classic "block-pass". Rider number one (in this case - Pastrana) has a slight advantage over rider number two (RC) going into said corner. Rider number two (again, RC) takes a line that will apex just ahead of rider number one's intended direction of travel. If rider number two executes the maneuver succesfully, he will end up in rider number one's line and "block" rider numeber one and "pass" him. Sometimes this can result in a colission between the two riders.

It's pretty clear that this is what RC attempted to do. However, RC's momentum came to a momentary halt and Travis tried to (unsuccessfully) wheelie his bike into RC to knock the Red Rider to the ground. Travis ended up on the short end of that deal, and RC looked like the Marquis de Sade.

As for RC looking back at Travis, I don't think it was intended as a "take that", look-back. I think it was a "what the heck just happened", look back.

So, whether or not you agree with my interpretation of the RC v. Pastrana incident or not, I hope everyone reading this (especially you newbies to the sport! - and I mean that in a good way. "Welcome one and all") has a better understanding about "brake-checks" and "block-passes". This reminds me of a afew years ago when Art Eckman started saying that "so-and-so rider was the second place hole-shooter!!". In case there's still any confusion, only one person gets the "holeshot". It's the first guy into, through, and out of the first turn. If you were second through last into and out of the first turn, you did not get the holeshot. You can pass "Go", but you do not collect the holshot award.

Got it?

 

[mx547]

you are correct on all counts. i always thought it was funny to hear someone say they got the fourth place holeshot.

 

[marcusgunby]

The thing is IMO he block passed him(no problem there) but then he does seem to just pause a little-so travis is slightly off line and balance and then suddenly he has to slow just abit more than he expects-so they collide.I dont really like the way RC does this manouvure-most other riders know he is doing it and really stomp on the brakes and so loose a bunch of time-TP didnt like to do that and was agressive and paid the price.IMO RC is a good enough rider not to pull these little tricks-he should block pass and return to normal speed afterwards.

 

[Jamir]

But why the need to be so aggressive in passing when you are only in a heat race and you are in second place? I mean, RC could have easily went down too and then they both would have been screwed. It just shows that just because you are fast, that does not mean you are the smartest racer out there. Look at his main race. He was in a slap fight with another rider and then wrecked twice. He lets things get to him to much.

 

[agitt73]

WHATS THE TERM FOR HOLD IT WIDE OPEN HIT THE OTHER RIDER
LIKE TRAVIS DID IT LOOKED LIKE HE DONE IT ON PURPOSE BUT
TRAVIS ONLY KNOWS IF IT WAS ON PURPOSE OR NOT

 

[atc3434`]

T33... if its just the heat race, why did Pastrana need to pass Ricky the cornor before? Interesting... Anyways, Pastrana block passed Ricky, and Ricky did the sensible thing, let of the throttle (Enough to see a little nose dive on his CR) and let Pastrana have the line. When Ricky applied the same maneuver to Pastrana, Pastrana nailed the throttle in an attempt to knock Ricky down, only he succeded in wrecking himself. He deserved to fall, thats the price you pay for trying to ride agressive, you risk the fall. And the booing was BS! Crowd didn't know racing from Green Eggs and Ham!

 

[bigred455]

What iritated me was roncada trying to cut and play with ricky instead of racing,rc just put his head forward and left .You see that is the difference I see wih ricky,he just want's too win.What I seen of roncada doing to ricky was really stupid,if I was roger and seen what roncada was doing I would definetly have a little talk with him

 

[Okiewan]

Good post whipit but...
the holeshot is where they paint it.

Travis, like just about everyone else racing, expects to be stuffed by the troll... anyone that runs his pace and is hanging, get's rubbed... period. How many riders did he drop (or at least hit) at the US Open? Maybe he can't control the bike?

bigred455.. did you see Glen Helen last year? Sooner or later, what goes around, comes around.

It kinda looks like there is a new mentality this year of... "rub the leprechaun, let's see what happens". No?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by Okiewan
It kinda looks like there is a new mentality this year of... "rub the leprechaun, let's see what happens". No?

Too bad the mentality is not, "work our asses off, let's see what happens." :scream:

 

[MXFastGuy]

Whipit, you're spot on.

What happened between RC and Travis is called racing. Very simple, and you gotta' love it!

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Originally posted by WhiPit




My theory is that people who refer to it as a brake check are new(er) to this sport.

Unfortunately, it appears that a lot of our new fans come from the ranks of NASCAR and WWF. They don't understand and their behavior at the races shows that. :p

 

[CR Swade]

Originally posted by Senior KX Rider




Unfortunately, it appears that a lot of our new fans come from the ranks of NASCAR and WWF. They don't understand and their behavior at the races shows that. :p

Amen to that! I've been singin' that blues tune for quite some time now...unfortunately the promoters will probably encourage the behavior as it sells tickets :ugg:

 

[Okiewan]

They don't understand and their behavior at the races shows that.

No kidding! At Vegas (not the Open) last year, a bunch of us sat there and witnessed no less than 10 fights break-out in the stands. I could just hear it...

The drunk guy wearing the fake SX jersey he just bought at the conssesion (and is now proudly wearing over his Metallica t-shirt) looks at another guy wearing his fake jersey (over his Bon Jovi T) and says; "oh yeah, well I'm faster than you'll ever be, I could beat you and all of these guys, they aren't fast. I'd be doing my signature tricks over the jumps too!"

 

[MXN4FUN]

Quote by Vic: 'Too bad the mentality is not, "work our asses off, let's see what happens."
Amen to that, it would be nice to see an all out race start to finish like Anaheim'86.

 

[Fark]

Anyone have the incident in an MPEG or AVI format? I'd like to see it.

 

[HiG4s]

They showed it 3 times on ESPN2's coverage last Saturday. It looked to me like there was a little braking by RC in the middle of the block pass. Something common to make sure the guy you're passing doesn't cut under and beat you back out of the corner. TP never tried to cut under he just stayed on the gas and bumped RC. To me it didn't look like a take down attempt by TP either. Or if it was it was a lame one. What I don't understand was with RC right behind him why wasn't TP guarding the inside line?

 

[mx547]

Originally posted by agitt73
BUT TRAVIS ONLY KNOWS IF IT WAS ON PURPOSE OR NOT

he admitted it.

 

[bigred455]

Originally posted by Okiewan
Good post whipit but...
the holeshot is where they paint it.

Travis, like just about everyone else racing, expects to be stuffed by the troll... anyone that runs his pace and is hanging, get's rubbed... period. How many riders did he drop (or at least hit) at the US Open? Maybe he can't control the bike?

bigred455.. did you see Glen Helen last year? Sooner or later, what goes around, comes around.

It kinda looks like there is a new mentality this year of... "rub the leprechaun, let's see what happens". No?

....

Yes I do remember,but that just looked foolish,instead of racing the track,he was worried about Ricky.He cannot beat him so i guess the next best thing for roncada is to play pest, because that is all he is to RC anyway..

I definetly agree with rub the leprechaun LOL, actually that is a great observation, the only thing that would make it even more magically delicious if ricky was on the green machine. :silly:

 

[WhiPit]

Hey! WOW!! I didn't expect this kind of response to my post, but thanks guys for all your opinions!

One other thing - if you guys saw the replay on TV, did you see the corner after the long set of whoops (where TP caught RC)? Looked to me like Travis ran it in pretty hard on Ricky in that corner! And TP DID admit that he was trying to knock RC down. He said, "the guy is like a weeble-wobble, you can hit him but he doesn't fall down".

So, yeah - I guess bottom line, my opinion is that they were racing and when you're racing "stuff happens". But it wasn't completely RC's fault like all of the boo-birds assumed it was.

 

[WhiPit]

hmm, just tried to edit my post and it won't let me......anyway, I was going to add that you guys are also correct about Roncada - he was LOOKING to run into RC!

 

[Fark]

No interenet footage?

 

[ktmboy]

Did anyone else hear Travis say that if Ricky tried a blockpass on him he was gonna wheelie up onto his seat? That's exactly what he did--it just didn't work out!

 

[Reesknight]

Originally posted by ktmboy
Did anyone else hear Travis say that if Ricky tried a blockpass on him he was gonna wheelie up onto his seat? That's exactly what he did--it just didn't work out!

That's what he tried to do, but it kinda looked like his front wheel might have gotten caught on RC's footpeg or something. RC did nothing wrong and Roncada looked foolish, revenge or not.
Whipit is totally correct about the break check thing but it doesn't necessarily have to be ENTERING a corner. I've seen LaRocco do it to keep whoever was behind him from being able to hit a double when exiting.

 

[Hucker]

You do what you gotta to do. If it gives RC the edge by block passing then slowing down a bit, good for him. If TP wants to get the front tire up in RC's face, great all the better.

 

[beer_stud_76]

are there actual rules about line changes and ramming other racers and so forth? and if so, did TP or RC break any of those rules? and if they did, why weren't they sanctioned?

jeremiah