hey guys i want to start off by thanking you for all the advice i have read on this site i was able to rebuild my top end with the article by eric gorr and tips from posts.i installed a new piston rings rad valves and a complete top end gasket kit.i put it all together and it fired on the second kick,but i have 1 problem.i filled it with oil and after my ride i noticed that the oil level was barely visible in the window.i filled it back up ran it for a while and again the level was back at the bottom of the window.i noticed black goo comming out of the exhaust and thats when i realized i forgot to make sure i had the marks on my rings facing up.does it sound like that is the problem?i want to make sure before i tear it all down again.thanks again for all your help
oil ring possibly upside down
- Thread starter rtk70
- Start date
dirt bike dave
Sponsoring Member
- May 3, 2000
- 5,349
- 3
The window is for your transmission oil only.
Your piston and cylinder are lubricated by oil in the fuel.
Not related at all, so improperly installed rings will have not effect on your transmission oil.
The black goo from your exhaust is known as spooge, and is from overly rich jetting, a KDX trademark.
Is it worth it to tear down the motor to make sure the rings are right side up? I think so. You don't want to risk damaging the plating in the cylinder.
On your transmission oil, did you measure how much you put in? The capacity should be marked near the filler. Sounds like yours is silghlty underfilled. FWIW, running a little low on transmission fluid will not hurt anything. I'd just add a little more (maybe 2 ounces), and check it next time you run the motor. For most accurate viewing through the glass, make sure the bike is not leaned over, with a warm motor and transmission.
Your piston and cylinder are lubricated by oil in the fuel.
Not related at all, so improperly installed rings will have not effect on your transmission oil.
The black goo from your exhaust is known as spooge, and is from overly rich jetting, a KDX trademark.
Is it worth it to tear down the motor to make sure the rings are right side up? I think so. You don't want to risk damaging the plating in the cylinder.
On your transmission oil, did you measure how much you put in? The capacity should be marked near the filler. Sounds like yours is silghlty underfilled. FWIW, running a little low on transmission fluid will not hurt anything. I'd just add a little more (maybe 2 ounces), and check it next time you run the motor. For most accurate viewing through the glass, make sure the bike is not leaned over, with a warm motor and transmission.
- Jul 20, 2009
- 417
- 0
Dirt Bike Dave is right on.
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In regard to the transmission if you want to be absolutely sure what's going on empty all the oil, put an accurate quart in, ride it for a while (not just a couple of minutes), empty the transmission oil and accurately measure how much comes out. If it's the same it's all good. If there is less you have a problem. Problems of loosing oil from a transmission would normally be oil seals. If you are loosing oil and there are no external leaks then the mains (between motor and trans) seals are the problem.
If you are checking oil level through the sight glass, make sure you always view it under the same conditions eg. same amount of time after a ride when the oil has settled, with the bike level and so on.
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In regard to the transmission if you want to be absolutely sure what's going on empty all the oil, put an accurate quart in, ride it for a while (not just a couple of minutes), empty the transmission oil and accurately measure how much comes out. If it's the same it's all good. If there is less you have a problem. Problems of loosing oil from a transmission would normally be oil seals. If you are loosing oil and there are no external leaks then the mains (between motor and trans) seals are the problem.
If you are checking oil level through the sight glass, make sure you always view it under the same conditions eg. same amount of time after a ride when the oil has settled, with the bike level and so on.
- Thread starter
- #5
thanks guys. as far as the oil level, i fill almost to the top of the window. i ran it today for about a 1/2 hour and it ran great. i let it sit and the oil level was at the bottom again.my oil has always turned gray, but was told not to worry about it. that it was probably from normal wear on my clutch plates. but now, it just sparkles when i drain it with a lot of shavings from something.if one or both my rings were put on up upside down could the shavings be from my cylinder? the rings were aligned with the locating pins and the piston moved freely up and down with no problems that i could see.but i guess they mark the rings for a reason.what will the rings do if they are upside down? do they not sit in the grooves on the piston right? i guess ill be tearing it down again.hopefully my cylinder isnt damaged already.thanks for all the advice.
A 2 stroke trans & cylinder are separated by a seal. The only way the two mix is if the seal is blown.
If shavings are getting into your trans from your crankcase, you have serious issues.
Could be that your clutch is done.. Might be a good time to take the clutch cover of and have a look.
If shavings are getting into your trans from your crankcase, you have serious issues.
Could be that your clutch is done.. Might be a good time to take the clutch cover of and have a look.
- Jul 20, 2009
- 417
- 0
This is BAD ---->"it just sparkles when i drain it with a lot of shavings from something." "my oil has always turned gray"
Time to stop riding it! Something is up with your transmission. It isn't the rings (although they maybe upside down, I don't know) and your main seals sound like they are dead too. Grey oil is bad, Sparkly oil is even worse, Shavings are next to death for a bike. Strip it and don't ride it again until you have found the problem. I don't know who told you not to worry about grey oil. Unless it has water in it making it milky, the grey is metal, microscopic bits of metal and they are going through your bearings etc. Oil should be clear, starting with light in colour and gradually getting darker. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is importan't you don't ride it anymore until it is sorted :-(
Time to stop riding it! Something is up with your transmission. It isn't the rings (although they maybe upside down, I don't know) and your main seals sound like they are dead too. Grey oil is bad, Sparkly oil is even worse, Shavings are next to death for a bike. Strip it and don't ride it again until you have found the problem. I don't know who told you not to worry about grey oil. Unless it has water in it making it milky, the grey is metal, microscopic bits of metal and they are going through your bearings etc. Oil should be clear, starting with light in colour and gradually getting darker. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is importan't you don't ride it anymore until it is sorted :-(
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
- 2
Huh? Was it a Wiesco piston? I don't think their rings have an up or down. Do the factory rings have an "up"?
dirt bike dave
Sponsoring Member
- May 3, 2000
- 5,349
- 3
It's been a long time since I've had a KDX, but on the bikes I've owned there is usually a small letter on the 'up' side.
Not sure about the KDX, but I think the rings do have a slight angle to the edge.
Not sure about the KDX, but I think the rings do have a slight angle to the edge.
- Thread starter
- #12
yeah i havent even started it since i discovered the shavings.i guess ill start tearing it down this wknd.it was a pro-x piston kit.maybe it doesnt matter which side is up with these rings,im not sure. ive never tore into this bike that much.like i said this is the first top end ive ever done.if the rings and cylinder are fine,should i turn to the clutch next?i took the crankcase cover off and slowly pushed my kickstart down but didnt noticed any damage to the gears(that i could see with just the cover off) but any advice before tearing it down will be a big help.thanks again
rtk70 said:
You can't see the transmission gears with just the clutch cover off.. You need to split the cases to see the wear.
And even then, you may not see much. You'll need a service manual and a set of measuring tools.
Could be something wearing that's causing the glitter.. Nothing "damaged" just excess wear that will only be detected by checking specs and measuring.
Take it slow, and make sure you keep everything clean and organized and you should have no trouble finding the culprit.
Perhaps before you tear into it, you can get some pictures of the oil??
- Thread starter
- #14
i tried to take a picture but its not clear enough.after it sat overnight the bottom of the white bowl i drained it into was completly silver after i poured the oil out.when i had fresh oil in it and ran it for a couple of minutes without actually riding it,the oil came out clear,but the other bowl looks like somebody poured silver glitter on the bottom,so its pretty bad.ill have to order a manual.its just wierd that this didnt happen untill i rebuilt the top end
- Jul 20, 2009
- 417
- 0
To be safe you shouldn't even really start it. It is all turning even when not riding it. The only thing not turning is the output shaft. All the gears are still meshing and turning, hence the name constant mesh gearbox. Remember too that the radiators like air flowing through them.
Follow IndyMX's advice.
Follow IndyMX's advice.
IMO the 'glitter' you see in your trany oil is most likely tiny bits of worn aluminum clutch plate. Everytime I change my oil for the past 6 years I've seen this. Is it big enough to feel between your fingers? If not I would not take the time to split cases.
Russ
Russ
Putting aside the glitter (shavings were mentioned), the gear case is loosing oil. The amount of oil being lost would be easy to see if it were a leak so it must be getting into the lower end of the motor (a long with the glitter) and getting mixed with the fuel, then burned. If the crank shaft bearings are shot, the crank would cause the seals to to go. I don't have a manual but more then likely the case will need to split to just do the seals (and maybe the crankshaft bearings).
You can use a magnet and see if the glitter is actually steel or aluminum.
You can use a magnet and see if the glitter is actually steel or aluminum.
- Thread starter
- #20
the shavings are alluminum.i have the manual now so i'll check what i can and if the case needs to be split,i guess it will turn into a winter project.its almost time to get the sled ready anyway.your advice has been extremely appreciated.great forum.
- Thread starter
- #22
thanks. i will probably take it for a short ride today(not to many nice days like this left here in minnesota!)i'll keep a good eye on it.this bike will keep me busy during the winter,as i know my clutch needs work as well as the swingarm bearings,front fork seals,etc.i dont think the guy that owned it before me did a whole lot with it.thanks again.best forum on the net,by far.
- Jul 20, 2009
- 417
- 0
Hey KDXruss. Clutch basket and pressure plate are aluminum. Aluminum plates, never heard of them. Aluminum is coming from somewhere else. Having stripped many bikes to their last nut and bolt and rebuilt them myself I am not sure where you are coming from with your "there is nothing wrong with it" advice when the owner is concerned about aluminum shavings. I am confused. Where did you get your information that metal in the oil is okay? I don't mean to be offensive I am just wondering if I may be missing something here.
