problems with the way D-17 is run!

honda62

Member
Apr 2, 2002
20
0
This is just getting rediculus no offence MR. Ward but we need someone else or you to start running the motocross or supercross a lot different. D-17 is the 2nd worst dist next to indana's district.
This is the big problem that everyone seems to agree on. Ask any of your "A" riders martin, modjewski, horton, kloptowski, loy, fricker, knuth. ask any rider in any class for that matter. this disterict seems to be only out for profit and not for turning out great riders.Compare to d15 michagan those guys fly in every class. WHY you might ask, simple becuse there scheduling is perfect all the tracks and races coinside so that all the top riders are at one of only 2 tracks. one track way up north one down south.I have to cut this short I have to got to work then go ride but tonight I will post what the generall things that you can do to fix the way everyone feels is wrong with our disterict.
 

wardy

2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
Nov 12, 1999
2,681
9
I will make this an easy one for you. Very simply put, District 17 is a Club Council. That means the tracks, clubs, and promoters are the boss, they vote for the rules, the rule book is very easy to understand. So if the tracks wish to only run once in a while and have "big" turn outs, thats fine, lets see which track asks for that? Riders gain experience by racing competition, they have the most tracks, most races, and levelist playing field in the country. Compare our riders with anyone, anywhere. By the way, Martin, Modjewski, are D-16 riders, not 17. Course why do they come to this district all the time? Maybe because there are alot more opportunities here?
We had a vast number of riders move up in class this year, that expected for some reason to stay in B, so of course there are a few riders that are not happy with D-17 ( or me) which ever it is because of advancement. Wonder how many people would be thinking things are not run correctly if there was no advancement or a structure for that end. Been to a District lately that has no advancement, they also don't have many tracks either.
How many tracks do you like to ride at, how is their quality? Think if the District "forced" riders to one track, or two that the competition between those tracks would be improved? Now tracks have to compete with each other for your business, what happens if they don't have to?

Its very easy to change things, the meetings are in October, and November. Rules are made in October. Go up to the next referee at the next track you are at in D-17 and suggest they only run once in a while and ask them to propose the rules needed to that end. Be interesting to see that response.

There are alot of riders out there, almost 3000 in this district that race motocross, lets not judge our whole district and its performance by the "top" riders. I see a whole bunch of riders in D-17 that are not A but are tops in my book.

Lastly, we only have 2 tracks this year running SX. Joliet and Mendota. We don't run on each others nights, so why or where is SX a problem>? Motocross has at times 4 tracks running, very rarely 5 and most of the time 3, not a whole lot different then lets say 16 that has two running.
Remember one thing, tracks are a business, which business's should be the ones to "cut back"? I seen in here a while ago a very cool and fitting saying, in fact it's in oldguy's signature line........


"motocross doesn't build charactor, it reveals it."


Boy how many times does that one fit.

no offense taken

wardy
 

Mully

Moderator / SuperPowers
Jun 9, 1999
4,233
113
Originally posted by honda62
D-17 is the 2nd worst dist next to indana's district.

I think wardy put it in a nut shell with his response.

And as far as your quip in regards to District 15, learn to spell Indiana before you start bad mouthing us.

Mully
DISTRICT 15 MEMBER
 

honda62

Member
Apr 2, 2002
20
0
The SX series is fine.plus like you said theres only Mendota and Joliet. Theres no one that has a problem with rider advancments that I know of though.Me personly im a C mid B rider and I feel the same way I understand that this is there job and every track is out to make money. But for instance take Michgan for an example. RIght off the bat there turning out sickining fast riders left and right and every one seems to agree on the 3 reasons why.
1. the schedule, they race log road one week, Dutch the next, then red budd and there will only be one and every now and then 2 othere tracks racing that same day. so that forces riders to go to a perticular track but the following week that track wont be racing. That way we dont get what we lovingly refer to a "byronites". Byron races every week and theres that group that only races there cause they know that there is a LL regional or area qualifyer and the the ponca city also. So they have a added advantage.They essentily become track masters that cant ride well at othere tracks. Ive personly seen it witha few friends that race there all the time and do good but they go to say Casey and they get smoked. plus buy dividing up the tracks they make as much or more money cause the rider turnouts will be higher. I mean red budd and dutch get on a regular basis 500-750 rider turnouts. so let do the math a track runs every othere week and they get say 500 riders and at $10 gate fee 10X500 thats $5000
But with the scedule now a track gets about 200 riders avg thats 10X200= $2000 maybe even $2500 if theres 250 riders. so at a busneuss point of veiw they could actully make more money.

2nd. this is more aimed at the tracks. YOu go to anywhere and by 3:30
4:00 your packed up and ready to leave.ANd the races are done for the day. MUddy creek, daniel boon millvill, log road, ect. Here its not run as smooth,
most of the time People dont get to leave till like 5:00 6:00.
immean the last 3 times I went to casey memorila weekend was the worst by far though. I dont know about you but its a 3 and a half hour drive to casey for me and they didnt start the 2nd moto TILL 5:00 PM half of the racers left and took a DNS part of this problem and nadien at LTM agreed is the tracks dont care after they got there money and after every 3-4 motos they stop and prep the track. And the only track in ILL that dosent do that is Walnut. TO get faster you need to be able to ride ruff choopy whooped out tracks. mich, tenn, WI groom the starting area twice and then prep the track only durning intermission, the only thing they do every few motos is water it real quick and that takes 15-20 min here thats more like 45min cause
they disc it and everything. You ride those tracks fast then come here and it so much easier cause its nice and smooth. If anyone complains the track is to ruff they shouldnt ride. I mean Red bud get breaking and acel bumps that look like mendota's whoops.

there were a few A riders from here that I was talking to at dutch last week and they said it pretty straight forward. why do you think you donts see horton or the martins up here all the time? Cause every time they come here like us we get our asses handed to us. If you can run up tere with them you can win down here. All because those tracks are ruff and to ride fast on them you have to be on the gas a have good form and get better every time you ride or you finish last, get beat to death by the track. Ruff tracks = faster riders.

It may seem like im just B*tching which I feel like I am but these little things here and tere will make a big difference in the depth and upcoming of riders for years to come.It's not bad or horriable but it could be a lot better.
Thank you for your time MR.Ward and actully taking the time to read this.
Im looking forward to talking about this more and hearing your response.
 

honda62

Member
Apr 2, 2002
20
0
Originally posted by wardy
I seen in here a while ago a very cool and fitting saying, in fact it's in oldguy's signature line........


"motocross doesn't build charactor, it reveals it."


Boy how many times does that one fit.

no offense taken

wardy

None what so ever taken. In fact I couldnt agree more with that quote.
It is kinda funny how you can tell how a person is by the way he rides or talks about the sport. I love this sport and love to ride. All I can say Is no matter where I go I give it everything I have. I also race a wide veriaty of tracks ranging from WI, MI, IL, IN, OH, FL ,TX, TENN

Ok and this is a personal aplogy (SP) to Mr.ward and Mully.
First sorry MR ward I reread what my first post was and I came off as a arogant prick which was not at all my intentions.

Second To Mully I didnt mean any offence but the rider depth in there is lacking most people from Ill and MIch go ther for ther LL area cause its easier.Like I said I meant no offence.

Have a nice day.
 

wardy

2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
Nov 12, 1999
2,681
9
YOu have valid points to the facts about tracks. the competition between the tracks has lead to smoother better groomed surfaces. Track prep has for years been the deciding factor in many minds as to the quality of the event.

Problem with comparing us to d-14 MI is that the tracks you are talking about are in one way or another some what hooked together, Dutch and Red Bud from an outsider's view pretty much run that area up there. Lets face it a National track like Red Bud has a draw that any normal amatuer track can't match. With that said they can utilize that by using that influence to promote their agenda.
Classes. we have a ton of classes here, everyone (riders) wants to be in the top 5 all the time. Less classes means less time at the track and more track time. But classes are requested by tracks, and run to keep the riders happy. I think you will see class structures change in D-17 soon, even now the tracks are not real happy with them and should address it. mainly the time factor.

Organization, I personally run the a night track which has a city council that loves to bust my butt if I run past 11:00 pm. So by our/my design and being a rider I don't waste your or my time. I maximize my time by not didley messing around between heats, the time that is lost between the finish and start of a moto is the time that tracks always seem to loose track of. Tracks to often think that riders want the smooth dust free track rather then be home an shower at a decent time. I don't have that luxury, but I also don't have the size track that many have either. Its a catch 22. When I was involved with the bigger tracks outdoors I found myself trying to decide how to keep the dust down, with out watering hardpack, and then doing that in a time frame that gets done quick, oh and don't forget 28 classes which riders all want 3 motos between classes//////.
MI will have this advantage with riders as long as Red Bud is around. Simple, we have riders that ride byron or casey very very well, they have riders that ride Red Bud well, since that is a pro track on the circuit that draws the cream its easy to see what happens.
Lets face what is the business here, tracks like byron, casey, and the rest do what they do to satisfy their riders. Riders from your area, espicially from your area that are closer to other states judge things different than lets say a rider that doesn't have the time or the money to drive the long drives. So they go to the local track week after week. They may never be pro's but they are the reason we have a sport. Believe it or not, I can always tell where a rider is from in this state by his observations of D-17, LOL I looked up your information after reading this post and thought wow it prooves it again. This is not a slight but an observance from years of being invovled in this stuff.

I have been over the years critized for an "easy" track, but what I see on the amatuer level is riders will race, have a good time, and go home hopefully in thier own vehicle at the end of the night. Riders that want to excel will travel and do what it takes. Tommy Hofmaster rode Mendota for many years, until he went pro and all the time he was racing here and local, he was busting his butt at home every day with a training regiment that would rival RC's. That is why he made it, many times it is easy to critize the racing establishments locally for not "producing" a pro calibur rider. I think (my opinion) is that if a rider is going to make it, he or she will have to do it more than on a sunday.

I guess I look at our District as the "work horse", we don't have the big name tracks, we don't have the National races, but week in and week out we have more riders racing more tracks, going to more dealers, buy a bunch of parts, bikes etc. The business part of it is key to the well being of racing, any racing.

The "cream" or the upper level A rider in this district has always had my personal attention and help if I can. Pro Am is the most under developed part of AmA. Currently D-17 is one of the only districts that continues to push for more development in that area. We need a better transformation between Amatuer and pro, we need tracks like the byrons' and caseys to be able to have more "fall classic" type races to make it possible for our "local" riders to get more experience racing larger groups of faster riders.

Bob I hope that helps a little in how some of this works, of if nothing else my opinion on how it works anyway. We have dedicated people out there doing what they feel is the way it should be, running the business's at hand. You can tell by turnouts what tracks the riders currently enjoy.

Also one reason that D-15 has some trouble to the north is that it is very very hard to compete with Dutch, or Red Bud for riders. I am sure there is people in IN. that would love to see a good amatuer track in North western IN. but man what a hill to climb in terms of development. D-15 has for years gave point events to the the MI tracks and worked together that way, so D-15 kinda gets short changed when they are looked at with out those tracks being included.

I don't type the best so thats enough, if you and I are at the same track some day I am sure we can have a good discussion.


wardy

PS I will stay up half the night to find out how Tommy or Kody did at the arenacross, but could care less if RC beats whoever at the next SX. It was totally cool that Kody Molitor was awarded "rookie" of the year in national arenacross series, he is a D-17 rider also. I think Tommy had those honors a few years back also!

One last thing, how many times does the MI riders come here? When they do I would bet we do ok against them on our turf...................... michigan mafia................FBI (fast boys from IL) its been a long on going rival/battle which for a long time was FBI territory. It will be again someday. We have a great group of up and coming riders right now!
 

nikki

Moto Junkie
Apr 21, 2000
5,802
1
honda62 - I too have raced across the states and after being everywhere else, I think D-17 is doing a DAMN GOOD job. In fact, I talk to many racers in non-sanctioned AMA areas (TN, AL, FL, etc...) that WISH they had something like D-17 regulating the show as far as a points system, year end awards, advancement, scheduling, contingency, etc.

That is funny that you think MI tracks and riders are so superior... did you know at the April 13th Dutch Super Series Race (Dutch, Red Bud, Log Road), that Brad Modjewski aced 250A (14 riders) and took 4th in 125A (15 riders)? Did you know Modjewski spends many weekends battling on IL tracks such as Mendota and Byron with guys like Martin, Hopkins, Horton, Garro, Hofmaster, Oettel, Bartz, Thyberg... and Brad has to fight to place top 3. Did you know Brad also cruised to his heat race win at Red Bud at the National weekend and finished a strong 27/17 in Sunday's motos picking up a few points and beating out guys like Ryan Mills, Steve Boniface, David Pingree, Michael Blose, Michael Brandes, Mattieu Lalloz, Barry Carsten... etc...? And that Brad finished higher than any 125 MI rider other than Kelly Smith and Josh Woods?

Did you know that D-17 faithful Andy Thyberg finished 27/26 at the Red Bud National in front of Justin Brayton, Damion Plotts, Brian Mason, etc...? I thought D-17 riders can't ride the rough tracks?

Did you know that guys like Kyle Garro, Brian White, Roy Horton, Brad Ripple, Charlie Dagner... made many 2003 SX night shows? Yep... they all race at Byron. Did you know Casey regulars like Jason Brewington, Derek Leist, Dustin Pulley, etc. have competed in quite a few 2003 MX and SX's too? Did you know Shawn Clark often races at southern D-17 tracks like Casey and Mason? Did you know Shawn Clark has finished top 5 at the Loretta Lynn National MANY times? Have you seen guys like Keith Bowen and Robert Motsinger turn laps around Byron or Casey? Have you seen Tommy Hofmaster fly around Walnut... even if it's pouring down rain? Or lead the way at Mt. Carrol? Or Brandon Bartz, Junior Jackson, Austin Raubs, Dave Oettel, Ryan Poulter, Randy Poulter, and Ross Martin do battle at Coal Valley or Galesburg? Have you seen Brian Mason and Charlie Dagner at The Edge or Salem? Or James Polvolny or Kelly Smith or Nick Wey at the Casey Fall Classic? Or Kenny Bartram and Tommy Hofmaster battle at Ottawa?

Have you ever raced a Loretta Lynn Regional in Kentucky where the track owner loses his tractor key while the tractor is stuck in the mud in the middle of the start? Have you ever raced in the dark at Steel City because they were running late? Have you ever experienced how ungroomed and unsafe tracks like Hardrock or Gatorback in Florida can become causing several injuries? Or how challenging tracks like the Lake County SX in Grayslake can be also leading to meatwagon trips? Or the holes that will swallow up your bike in the Minnesota sand? Or raced at an unsanctioned Alabama track to see 30 riders in 125D (clearing every jump on the track), 30 riders in 125C, 5 riders in 125B, and 2 riders in 125A. Or guys like Jonathan Camp in Florida stay in C class much longer than their stay.

I wouldn't waste my time comparing D-17's whole deal to MI. Seems okay to me to have Byron, Mason, and Galesburg all racing on the same day when no track is 2-3 hours from each other. Plus when you add a Nuke race or Bonus Race or Fall Classic or whatever... then you get all your talent together. Log Road, Red Bud, and Dutch have their own thing going in SW Michigan. Yeah there are some fast riders at those tracks but they ride there EVERY open ride, every race, etc... because they don't have the options and track variety like D-17. Thats like saying Derek Rose and Penrod are going to show up at a Nuke race and put a hurting on Modjewski, Martin, and Hopkins. I wouldn't lay my money on the table. Imagine if Walnut, Byron, Mendota, and relocate Casey up by Ottawa and put together a series. Then top it off by making Walnut a National track and unloading a bunch more A class payout and contingency to all 4 tracks. And add a Loretta Lynn Qualifier to Byron and Regional to Casey... and there you have it.

And you think D-17 is out to make money? At least when you race Mendota's night track... you get two races in 125B no matter what. Go to Red Bud's night track and have fun in your 4 lap heat race. LCQ... forget about it. If you have a bad start in your heat, then you're done for the night - there is no LCQ. Run on a clear track... you can forget that too. Red Bud will squeeze 80 riders onto that night track... better hold your line! Then they give trophies to the top like 1/3 minus one. 10 in your class... oh boy 2 trophies. How nice. Especially when Red Bud has the luxury of racking in hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) on the National weekend to "reinvest" into the facility.

Anyways... I need to go to sleep. :silly:
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
8,062
15
Originally posted by wardy
Think if the District "forced" riders to one track, or two that the competition between those tracks would be improved? Now tracks have to compete with each other for your business, what happens if they don't have to?

Even though I'm not an AMA memebr or live in the USA I can give you my take on that, you would have a situation like we have here! I feel our local Association does a fine job of running the MX racing here but the tracks we have usually only get 2 races a season (one in spring series and one in fall series). With the exception of one track we get to practice on tracks that get groomed and prepped on average 2 times a season :| of course that doesn't stop them from collecting the practice fee.
 

Layton

~SPONSOR~
Aug 2, 2000
898
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I don't race mx but I would say this:

honda62, If you don't like the way the district is being run, then get involved. I don't mean by posting on this board. I mean join a club, volunteer your time, go to the sanction meeting.

The Dist.17 offficers do what they do because they love the sport not to make money. Try to work with them and you'll get a lot farther. Or, run for an office yourself. Then you'd really have some input.
 

James980

Member
Dec 29, 1999
282
0
There ain't nothin' broke in D-17.

What's broke is the lack of a nationwide AMA advancement system and better classification of the four-stroke/two-stroke displacement class rules -- two issues that the venerable Mr. Ward is at the forefront of fixin'.

James
 

markthomps

Sponsoring Member
May 27, 2000
255
0
Honda62: Your opinions and statements about Casey/Lincoln Trail are completely off base and completely wrong. The Ramsay's do a great job running one of the best tracks I've EVER been on. And I've raced all around the country on probably a hundred different tracks. The Ramsays are definitely not doing it for the money (sure, some promoters are, but hey, it's a biz first) as they put on vintage events that lose money becuz they love the sport. You owe them an apology.
 

James980

Member
Dec 29, 1999
282
0
Even if it's wrong, it's still his opinion, for which he shouldn't apologize. I'm glad he stirred up some crap.

Oh, yeah, one more nationwide thing that's broke: The whole ProAm deal.

Other than that, we're good!

James

Originally posted by markthomps
Honda62: ... You owe them an apology.
 

Vytas

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 31, 2001
256
0
I wish that every track in District 17 raced every weekend. :aj:

Then I could go anywhere I wanted whenever I wanted.  I remember back in the late 70's and early 80's when Byron would have 30-35+ racers in most every class.  Why?  Because there were not that many tracks open, or only raced a few times a year.  Personally, I don't care if my class is full.  I have been riding/racing since 1975.  But right now I have two little boys starting out and my little girl next year.  I think that they will have more fun and still learn to ride/race without 40 racers in the 50/65 classes.
 
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