JMD

Member
Jul 11, 2001
1,402
0
Well, I have a dilemma with my son. He really wants to start racing this year, and I have told him that we can do that, but I set certain conditions. He had to get his grades up; he had to spend two hours on homework every evening; he had to do his chores cheerfully; and he had to treat his mother with respect.

Well, he has been doing his homework faithfully, and he has raised his grades. He does his chores, not cheerfully, maybe, but not sullenly, either. But he hasn't been as respectful to his mother as I would like to see. While he isn't outright disrespectful, he acts surly and sullen, won't answer questions readily, and won't talk to her about his day at school, etc., without being forced, and then he's unpleasant about it.

I have already warned him once this week, and he had another surly display this morning. I just don't know whether I should give him another chance. TORO's first race is this weekend. Should I make him wait until the next race, November 11?
 

txvintage

Sponsoring Member
Apr 20, 2001
661
0
JMD,

Stick to your guns. I made almost the exact same deal with my then 14 yr old son last November. To show my sincerity, I bought the Bike, gear, signed him up and got a number assigned with the understanding that his word was his bond and he would take care of business.

The little %$^&*^% has yet to live up to his end of the bargain. The result is no racing and the bike is a permanent garage ornament. He gets to roll it out into the driveway and start it every now and then:p
 

txvintage

Sponsoring Member
Apr 20, 2001
661
0
Oh, and BTW. When it involves disrespectful behavior to the Mom person, it's time for a man to man talk in my opinion.

She may be my kid's mother, but she was my wife first!
 

Jamir

I come and go
Aug 7, 2001
1,937
0
This is just my opinion. I assume that you want opinions or you wouldn't have posted this. You son sounds much like me when I was in my teens. It is as simple as this. He doesn't want to talk about school because it probably sucked. I don't want to talk about work with my wife. I am not being disrespectful. I love her. Your son loves his mother. He is just getting to an age where he doesn't connect. Motocross is the bridge that you need. Let him race this weekend. Have his mother go and take pictures and participate. Then, instead of talking about stuff his doesn't care to talk about, they can talk about something he enjoys.

My dad used to use the same tactics with me. It will work if done correctly. My dad would promise the world if I did well in school and was a good boy. I never saw it though. I never had any hope that I would get a brand new bike, so I didn't try. Let him do it and give it a while. If you don't see a change, then start denying him races. If he really loves it, he will straighten up and fly right.:D
 

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers
Damn Yankees
Aug 2, 2000
13,504
19
I think someone said "raising teenagers is like trying to nail jello to a tree."

The little turd (no offense) is a teenager, so granted he's going to be sullen! I used to be one also.

He will grow up someday. Stick to your guns, dad.
 

Jamir

I come and go
Aug 7, 2001
1,937
0
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying go easy on him. I am just saying that he is still your son. He needs to have fun and I would pay a million dollars to go back in time and spend more time with my dad doing things like that. (MX) He bought me a $200 bike and then went to the bar or what ever had his attention that day. He yelled at me for having bad grades and what not, but he did not realize that I just didn't care. I could have done good just as easily as I was doing bad. I chose to do bad because it was the only way to get his attention.

Don't punish him for being a teenager. Reward him for being your son!
 

FLBob

Member
Jun 4, 2001
210
0
I think Thunder 33 is pretty close - too much strict will backfire. More involvement in his passions by Mom can only help.

He might not think that he is being disrespectful. Buy the way, are you and Mom treating him with respect? Do you and Mom treat each other with respect? Or as XRpredator says, maybe he's just going thru a turd stage.

It's a fine line and the fact that you are willing to get involved will mean a lot to the kid (someday). Don't give in too easy, but try to reward any improvement. Best of luck.
 

slo' mo

slower than slow...
LIFETIME SPONSOR
May 5, 2000
1,425
0
don't be too hard on him

It's easy to forget what being a snot-nosed punk was like. Maybe that's because I wasn't one, but back to your dilemma. I would pretty much do what TXvintage did and that would be to show him you have kept your end of the bargain (have all the bike/gear/plans) ready, maybe even take him on the trail with you to whet the appetite. Sounds like he's pretty cooperative other than a little mopey about it. Keep working on him but pick your battles. There's a lot bigger things that he will face in the future. I go through this with my 17 yr. old.
 

JMD

Member
Jul 11, 2001
1,402
0
People, I really appreciate the responses. This is all good advice. I still don't know what I'm going to do. I want him to take me seriously, but I don't want to be so strict that he feels oppressed. And I agree, Thunder, about the value of the time together--it's good for both of us. I'm going to re-read all your comments, and think about it some more. Thanks again.
 

a454elk

Mexicutioner
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 5, 2001
7,529
18
I thought you were living in my house for a minute there. My kid is 16 and the only problem we have is the disrespect to his mother. I'd love to beat him but I found that running him into a berm at the track is much more humbling! Haven't figure out what works yet but I do know that too harsh of penalties is not the way to go. If they have nothing, there is nothing for them to lose, kinda like life without parole!
 

KXKen

Member
Jan 6, 2001
534
0
I go threw this crap with my kid to. There's been many times I went riding by myself because I was mad at him. Anyway the one point that I wanted to make is that when he moves in the right direction with his behavior it has to be recognized in some way. Otherwise he may start feeling like he can never be good enough. I think only you could know wheather taking him riding is the right thing to do or not. If you do take him you can have a long talk with him on the way to the track about the things that have to change. Just my .02
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,449
0
Charlestown, IN
Hang with it Dad.....the job stinks but somebody has got to do it.

If you set conditions, don't go back on them or you will regret it. I'm not saying be a complete butt, but just don't reneg. That can be worse for all of you in the long run. Maybe you could add some "other conditions" that would make it easier for him to comply. Perhaps let Mom decide if he's worthy. If he knows Mom has the say-so, he will make SURE he's respectful...and who knows maybe he will be sincere one day. :)

If you do give in, and nothing changes in his attitude, then in the words of Barney Fife...."Nip it!...Nip it in the BUd!" :cool:

I've got 4 and it's hell sometimes....but you'll be fine. :)

LOL...I just remembered when I was a kid, we had a jar and a plate of beans. When I would pop off during the day Mom would drop a bean in the jar. When Pop got home, I'd get a swat for every bean in the jar. :eek: Not fun... One day I got so cocky I just dumped the whole plate of beans in the jar, thinking I was funny. Dad thought it was a hoot too, because he smiled the whole time he was busting my a$$ ! :cool: BTW...I'm 41 and still a smarta$$, but I just learned to do it under my breath from then on. :think ....Hmmmm, come to think of it, it may be why I rarely pop off to anyone in person but do lots of it here! LOL...no bean jar! :p
 
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Patman

Pantless Wonder
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 26, 1999
19,765
1
Maybe sit down and have a talk. "Look son I'm willing to do this first race on your word that you'll turn this around to the agreement we both had. If not you won't be making the next race......" That way your not totally caving in and he's getting a last chance to hold up his end of the bargin. My 9 year old was being a bit disrespectful to one of his teachers. My wife gave him too may last chances so I finally got mad and said "One more bad day and no soccer this weekend, you get to go WATCH and explain to the coach and your team why you can not play.". The punishment was enforced and end of problem. (All this while on my cell phone watching the night time HS at Dirt Week, sure glad Oldguy had that cold beer for me 'cause I needed it bad.:))
 

sfc crash

Human Blowtorch
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 26, 2001
1,824
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i'm simplistic,i see things in black and white and don't much believe in"don't know whys'",please don't take this the wrong way, but after the second divorce and i was living with my mom, i was very sullen towards her. hell i was pissed at her. i was a soph and had to change highschools and move 100 miles away. anyway i knew my stepdad was the cause, but i was young, so i had a beef with mom. ergo, sullen little crash. plus,even at 15 etc, i wanted,badly to do things with my dad.anything, befor the big D my step dad was pretty much absent for 1 year, working staying away(fillandering) and i craved doing things with him. i was starting to stray,drugs,sex, etc, and he would give me tasks and rewards, but he reniged on a horse when i'd upheld my end, then on a motorcycle, he had good reasons"of course" but after that i lost hope and looked for things elsewhere, still, i would have loved it had he came home with a couple of xls' and said "we're going riding this weekend" it would have helped alot with things. now, like i said, everybody does things for different reasons and sometimes kids are just jerks(except for me:D ) but maybe there is something else here?...anyway, as to running him into a berm,that changes his attitude..damn straight! that is why MEN are supposed to raise boys, because they need to be humbled by the big dog periodically, here's a tried and true technique for ya..works great. start going into your sons room and wake him up every morning...i mean ROCK HIS WORLD! you don't have to go in and be mad or beat him, but talk in a very loud determined voice, open shades turn on lights, radio,and "make" him get out of bed"NOW!" time to get up,get in the shower,get dressed,make your bed befor coming down for breakfast, don't walk out of the room untill he's in the shower, pull off the sheets etc, btw,man to man, don't let the early morning er, you know, put you off your stride. anyway good luck,and the wake up thing has worked everytime tried. it'll humble some one quick!oh yeh, i vote on you taking him racing, give you time with him,time to mold him,talk to him,and BEAT him,when needed:cool:
 

cweingartz

Member
Jun 6, 2000
241
0
Boy do I remember those days. Probably because I'm a freshman in college and I was like that just a few years ago. I never wanted to talk to my parents about school or anything because I felt I was not doing as good as they wanted. For one semester in 10th grade my grade point fell below a 3 and I thought that my parents would be pissed. Oddly they did not get mad or take away my toys. This put a guilt trip on me I guess and I brought my grades up on my own. For the first couple years of highschool, my parents thought that I dissrespected them becuase I did not do chores and would not talk to my mom much. Hormones??? Any way when I turned 16 I had had a job for three years and I had a new liscense. My parents started treating me like an adult istead of talking down to me. I paid for and maintained my own van(not a chick magnet). I also bought a dirtbike. I had to balance school and work and my bike in my life. If I forgot to do my chores then my dad woke me up at 4:00am when he got up to go to work and made me do them. I quit forgetting. This was probably the best thing to happen to me. Now that I am at college I have to do everything for myself. All of my friends who had things handed to them on a platter in highschool were the big partiers and the ones who did drugs. I had no time for that. Anyways most of those kids either did not go to college or hate it now that they are there. They cannot live on their own. Just a piece of advice, sell the bike and let him buy his own. He will take alot better care of it. Treat him like an adult and he will respect you.

_Chris
 
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yzguy15

Sprayin tha game
N. Texas SP
Oct 27, 2000
1,271
0
I'm not sure what to tell you. Myself being 16, I kinda know what yall are talking about, albeit from the other side. My case is a little different though because I make good grades, don't have set chores (I just do whatever "the man" tells me to do, ie clean up, do dishes etc.), don't have to do 2 hours of homework (don't usually have that much), and I don't disrespect my mom. Sure we mess around a lot, but I don't really disrespect her. I can tell you that severly punishing him wouldn't be the way to go, I know that for a fact. I'm not sure about letting him race though. There's 2 ways to look at it really. You could say that if you let him race, he'll think that he's getting away with something because he's not really respecting his mom. But you could also say that he's going to see how much fun it is and never mess up (well not be perfect but as good as you could expect). Personally, I think that you should tell him that he was on the verge of not being able to go, but you've decided to let him. However, you should also say that he better do better before the next race or else he won't get to go to the next one.
 

Farmer John

T.C.F.<br>(tire changin' fool)
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 8, 2000
1,993
7
Law says you can't shoot em anymore

I have been dreading this very thing for a few years.
My oldest is only 7.
Does your son understand that an agreement with dad is an agreement with mom?
My first impulse is: take him racing, then on the drive home while rehashing the time at the track do a "by the way I have been noticing" type statement.
Then lay it out. No change, no more racing.
 

will pattison

Sponsoring Member
Jul 24, 2000
439
0
well, as the president of toro, i - of course - would like to see both of you at the races. :D

however, i understand that you have a larger picture here. i can't offer any advice because i don't have any children myself, but i certainly know what it's like to not want to talk about your day. in my 5 years of marriage i've noticed that women really like to talk about all of it. my wife comes home and wants to tell me about her day at a level of detail that has me thinking i would rather be pushing a dead yz426 with two flat tires through a south texas sand wash in july! i, on the other hand, have just spent 8-10 hours at work and want nothing less than to talk about what went on there, even though it's usually good stuff. i can imagine your son feeling similarly, and maybe that's your real challenge - to find out why he behaves the way he does. my wife eventually learned not to bug me about what went on at the office, i eventually learned to just nod and say "uh huh". she has learned to leave out some of the minutia, and i have learned to talk a little more. for the record, she still says i never tell her anything, but the point is that it's all give and take.

good luck, and hopefully we'll see you at the track soon!

wp.
 

kingriz1

Member
Aug 2, 2001
527
0
I read a very interesting article that kids are the most insecure at 2 and at 15.

That helps to explain a lot. Do you remember when you were 15. Reading this thread has made me. I think it was a blessing to find that thread today. I have a little brother who is 15 and he is going through that snot stage. Beind disrepectul and slightly rebellious. He is going to stay at my place for a while. He is a good kid, not any real trouble. I think that a month at my place would help him and of course he has to pay part of the rent. He is only 15 so the weekend job will be fast food or something like that. Besides I think it will give me a chance to teach him how to ride. He is really excited but at 200 pounds ir is going to be tough. I have a little ke he can learn on. Then I am thinking about getting him a kdx.

I was trying to figure out a strategy to handle him and learned from reading the email that I was way more trouble as a kid then he is. he is just going through a normal stage.

Happy Riding Guys,

Kingriz1
 

Miltonyz

Sponsoring Member
Apr 12, 2001
157
0
I am not seeing the problem. He doesn't like to tell his mom about his day and he's not being outright disrespectful you say it yourself. I don't like to talk about my day with people and I can see getting upset when people keep pushing to find out. Some people arn't talkers. He is keeping his grades up and if he really cared about riding he wouldn't get out of shape by doing cigerattes or other such nasties. Probaly the worse thing is when you have a bad day and you keep it to yourself and people keep asking about your day and then ask you why you replied so grumpily. He doesn't sound like a bad kid why make him talk about his day. Another reason we don't tell stuff iss woory my mom she's a worrier. I don't want to tell her I was 5 pounds over weight at wrestling today so I had to wear three sets of sweats and go thru a meatgrinder. I don't want to tell her what I learned in Anatomy and Physiology today. She'll forget in five minutes anyway. I don't want to tell her about Hamlet I went through the book once and hated it why would I want to rehash it. I don't come home and say who did you talk to today. What did they say. How did they say it it's her business and I don't intrude and I expect the same from her. We do not connect on the same level if I told her a joke I thought was funny chances are she wouldn't. (I have a pretty weird sense of humour came from my dad I guess).
Anyway just random thoughts from me. Sorry about the spelling, grammar and all that but sometimes I think what just pops in your mind is better and more entertaining then a checked rechecked piece of grammarfied work.:)
 

cweingartz

Member
Jun 6, 2000
241
0
Teenagers need a real job. Not fast food. They need jobs where they have to do some manual labor. I worked on a farm and in a wharehouse and remodling houses all through highschool. The best thing? I did it all for the same guy. I think he was a positive role model since he is only 9years older than me and because he gave me a ton of responsability. He told me what needed to be done by when and I did it by the deadline. My favorite job ever is harvesting and delivering hay. I think that all young men need to do manual labor. Plus it payed double minimum wage so I could buy a bike and I have a brand new truck now.

-Chris
 

placelast

Member
Apr 11, 2001
1,298
1
Don't Go Back On your Word

...otherwise he & others will lose respect for you in the long run; all giving in will do is gain little short-term peace at the expense of long-term, lasting respect. Everyone in the house needs to know what the standard is (as commonly pronounced, moreover "lived" by the standard-bearing "dad"), what the expectations are, since they use you (us) as a yardstick.

That doesn't mean being hard nosed nor calloused, but an agreement is an agreement; either your word is genuine and good as stated, or it is not. If the expectations were agreed upon by the parties involved, then don't change them mid stream.

My three sons, 17, 14, & 13 YO all know I mean exactly what I say, and back it up. But with my wife, they somtimes work all the angles to weaken her - not good. If present, I don't let that happen; afterall, it needs to be a united front for the long-term benefit of the offspring. And sometimes the "offspring" need to make sacrifices for the benefit of the family.

I like the idea of letting the wife determine (in private, out of the hearing of the son/siblings) if the "respect" expectation is met, but you should have some say in it, as you ought to be aware of the atmosphere, at least from a guy's perspective. I've come to know real quick if disrepsect is being shown.

I can understand him not wanting to talk to her about school. Perhaps he doesn't like talking about the unpleasant things of life, let alone his urgings within to be weaned from the nurturing care and natural instincts of mom. Women (girls?) perhaps don't seem to mind talking about these things.

Try to get him involved in the setup & maintenance of the bike/gear/etc. Let him know you'd be proud to see him make the race, and with a little effort/restraint, it's a done deal.
 
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