Seal care Guide.. version 1.o

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Guys let me have your thouights on this one..MX-Tech Seal care guide:

What makes seals fail, and how can you improve their life? I’ve found the main culprit to seal life has always been dirt. So the real question is how does one prevent dirt from entering the seal.

At the track:
After your ride take a towel and wipe down the exterior of chrome leg. Dirt and dirt film will dry on the tube while you have your break. The first time you compress the fork these small to large particles will be swept into the seal. This is the begging of the leak. If you take the time to keep grunge from drying on the tube, or getting it off before you ride you’ll double your seal life.

At the wash:
Avoid the power washer; in our day and age of instant gratification, I’m sure you will all ignore this rule. That being the case doesn’t point the hose at the seal, or at the chrome. The high pressure can deflect and ram dirt caught in the dust wipers groves right into the seal. After you’ve washed you bike take a towel and clean the forks. Those little water spots are dirt and mineral residue. Mineral residue is sharp and seals don’t like sharp things adhered to the chrome.

At the shop:
Invest in a good seal driver; the home made one is going to cause problems. Use a seal bullet or bag when installing new seals. Always lube the seal with good seal grease. Replace the dirt scrapper and wiper as a set and don’t reuse worn bushings. Follow these steps and you’ll find that every will have a longer seal life.

URBAN fork lore:
Tying you bike down over night or all week does not cause seal problems. The pressure inside a fork actually increases its tendency to seal. If you have a leak after doing this it’s from an imperfection (damage already done) and the extra internal pressure is just helping push oil out.
Bleeding your forks is a good idea for good performance, but has little to do with the seal’s life. If you fail to do this and notice a leak, it’s from the same root cause as the bike being tided down myth of above.
 

380EXCman

Sponsoring Member
Sep 15, 1999
721
1
I have never had a leaky seal (knock on wood). It probably has to do with the fact that I mainly ride in the desert and my bike rarely sees mud. But sometimes I wonder if it doesnt have something to do with the way I wash my bike. I always wash my bike on a stand. I wash the lower fork tubes and dry them off. I then spray them with "Armor All" or "Son of a Gun" I bounce the front end a coulple times and wipe the fork tubes back off. I also never clean under the dust scrapers or remove them. Like I said I doubt any of this has to do with the way I maintain my bike and probably boils down to the riding I do or maybe even luck (fingers crossed). I dont know.......? :think:
 

JTT

~SPONSOR~
Aug 25, 2000
1,407
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Well done as usual Jer! I am glad you added that last peice, as I am tried of hearing how tying down you bike will ruin seals...guess all those people have stock in the "Seal Saver" company :p
 

Lorin

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 25, 1999
948
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I thought that the seal savers reffered to the neoprene covers that act like an additional wiper of sorts (which seem to work well), not the piece of wood, plastic, etc, that people (like myself) place between the wheel and fender during transport. I dont actually do this to save my seals, I do it to decrease the chances of the bike bouncing during transport and coming unhooked and falling out of the truck or off of the trailer. As to Jeremy's article, good reading! Now, if only my bike had the high and low speed adjusters.
 

slo' mo

slower than slow...
LIFETIME SPONSOR
May 5, 2000
1,425
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Jer,
glad to know the air bleeds don't cuase premature failure... I always wondered about that one. Does it pay to use great under the dust seals or will that just attract more particles?
 

JTT

~SPONSOR~
Aug 25, 2000
1,407
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Originally posted by Lorin
I thought that the seal savers reffered to the neoprene covers
Oops, perhaps I used the wrong terminalogy :eek:
 

Studboy

Thinks he can ride
Dec 2, 2001
1,818
0
So, here is my question. Can you take off the dust scrapers with the forks still on the bike? Do they just "Pop off?"

Thanks
 

RM_guy

Moderator
Damn Yankees
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 21, 2000
7,045
208
North East USA
Originally posted by Studboy
So, here is my question. Can you take off the dust scrapers with the forks still on the bike? Do they just "Pop off?"

Thanks
You can remove them quite easily. Take a thin bladed screwdriver and work your way around, prying a little bit at a time. The don't "pop" off but you certianly don't have to remove the forks to take them off.
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Well guys the verdict on that question is not in.. I don't know and honestly have allways held that whole idea in high contempt. IMO leave them alone. Heres why.. the dirt scrappers have little ridges desinbed to hold and chatch dirt, when you clean you break some of the dirt loose, and that in effct makes you go good I got all this dirt out, but I doubt you have really got much of it, plus you've just liberated some of it to go in for the kill..

But I have respected collouges who swear by it.. I guess my way works and stuck in and biased by it..

Thats where we need you guys..
Regards,
Jer
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Dell,
I'm not saying its bad.. I don't do it, but I know people who I respect as Professional Suspension Builders who do..

Regards,
Jer
 

Layton

~SPONSOR~
Aug 2, 2000
896
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MoO,
If you are talking about the seal savers made of neoprene like these http://www.srcinc.net/mudskins.html then the answer is "Yes" they do work.
I along with many others in this area use them all of the time. If we didn't we would go through fork seals every other month due to the mud etc.
 

23jayhawk

Sponsoring Member
Apr 30, 2002
675
0
Jeremy - just to be clear about this, the old rule about not tying down the bike to tightly in the trailer is mostly bunk? I have always been concerned to not pull down the forks beyond about half-travel for fear of blowing out a seal in-transit. Does it really matter?
 

Rcannon

~SPONSOR~
Nov 17, 2001
1,886
0
I used something similar on my mountain bikes. The piece protected the headset (similar to steering head bearings). They worked fine, but would tend to trap water and moisture under the covers. If a person is cleaning under them a lot, probably no big deal.

Great thread. As the new owner of a YZ 250 (old bike was a Susuki DR 350) I as still trying to get to know this machine. Wow, how things have changed! This bike is incredible!
 

Marcad

Member
Feb 29, 2000
58
0
I always thought that the problem with strapping your bike down with the forks compressed for long periods of time caused your springs to sack out earlier than normal.
 

Rcannon

~SPONSOR~
Nov 17, 2001
1,886
0
There was a test on springs for airguns a few years ago. Agreed, it has nothing to do with Motorcycling. We are talking spring powered airguns that will shoot pellets over 1000 feet per second.

The springs are just like fork springs, only shorter. The lifespan of the spring is measured in cycles, rather than years. In other words, a very limited lifespan compared to a fork spring. Broken springs is no big deal for us airgunners. It happens on a regular basis.

The author compressed the springs until they were coil bound, then waited and tested. Days, weeks and months. The results were interesting.


Depending on wire quality, the worst spring was still 93% as stiff as when new, after being coil bound for 6 weeks. The best were still 99.5% as good as new. Most became twisted, but no real damage.

I still dont keep my forks compressed, but if I forget....no big deal! The odd part about the test...after being compressed for one day, some springs were a bit stiffer!

I am no expert on this. I am just trying to relay some information on a completly un-related topic. Just tell me to shut up if you need to!!!!
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
RC,
Intresting test, but a MC spring is never even close to coilbind, and hence are only "preset" at the factory.. When you coil bind a spring the first time it will shrink and most OEM will if you "preset" them again.. I wonder if this is why the rate changed? Well anyway thanks for the food for thought..

BR,
Jer
 

Rcannon

~SPONSOR~
Nov 17, 2001
1,886
0
Jeremy, in your business, have you ever seen a spring "wear out"??? Lets say I ass some .43 springs to my YZ. After years of use, I wonder if they have the 43 rate?
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
RC,
Yes and no.. Fork springs will wear on the Od which does make them softer.. However if we look at shock springs, I've seem em shrink but never lose rate.

Regard,
Jer
 

Jeff Howe

Member
Apr 19, 2000
456
1
I've got some stock Arctic Cat 80/120 progressive rate ski shock springs that lost 3/8" length in one season of use. I could "feel" the difference in them by the end of the year. I never even tested them, just threw them in a box to collect dust.

Hey, whats the new sig line mean dude? We ain't got any pigs in the woods up here, but a little barbequed pork ain't so bad with spicy mustard on it.
 

Eric82930

~SPONSOR~
Oct 26, 2001
76
0
So Lets debate the grease behind the seal/wiper issue. I had good luck packing them with white litium grease. I first had the Idea because of reducing stiction from the seal/wiper but since I have been using it, I havent had a seal leak a drop. It doesn't last forever so I have to replace the grease everymonth or so. The other thing I do is wipe off the crome legs w/wd40 to remove dirt and water spots. I am not a chemist so I have no Idea how theese chemicals affect the rubber on the seals? I always test my bikes for fork stiction by pushing down on the foot peg. If the fork doesn't move, there is too much stiction. It is usually because the forks twisted in a crash, but dry seals/wipers also caused this problem. The grease cured it and seems to keep them from leaking.
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Originally posted by Eric82930
The other thing I do is wipe off the crome legs w/wd40 to remove dirt and water spots.

Well here is my point......



Originally posted by Eric82930
The grease cured it and seems to keep them from leaking.


Actually I'd venture that your first statment is the reason.... Not the grease.. If nothing else your testing methods should be refined..


:thumb:
 
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