Something disturbing

[Wolf]

Hey all,
Well after missing DW in order to spend some time with my folks, who flew in from overseas, I am a little confused about the status of airport security.
First let me say they flew in on Sunday 16th and left Sunday 23rd.
On the way here they had to change planes in Amsterdam. They had no security check at all. Yes they went through the detectors and stuff, but nothing more. Not in Austria, Amsterdam or here. My dad said it was the easiest trip yet. They flew into Chicago and had absolutely no delays due to any kind of security because there was none.
I figured it was just coincidence and airports need more time to increase security measures.
Well, as I said, they left on Sunday 23rd from Chicago.
No security checks. Nothing. Yes they made them go through the metal detectors, but that was it. Never looked in their bags or anything else. My dad said he was hoping for more "inconvenience" as he would have felt safer, but he said that during the time he was there they checked hardly anybody.
My mother, in her naive way, had a set of "manecure stuff" with her, they never even looked at it.
I would have thought that they would beef up airport security by now, on domestic or international flights??

 

[DSsuper92]

It could be that the security guards are racially profiling the people that they need to really check. I don't believe that senior citizens rank high on the "danger" list.

It could also be that the guards make 6 dollars an hour and don't really care about their job. Some kind of security surcharge needs to be put into place so they can hire competent people.

It's sad to say that the only way to solve this security problem is with federal intervention.

Dave

 

[Wolf]

Agreed.

 

[canucklehead]

My sisters just left for Brazil on Saturday, and they too said there were no real increased security measures. No bag searches or anything.

I agree, I'm assuming that racial profiling is taking place right now..

Dave

 

[shiftless]

Wolf, while I cannot speak personally, I have a dear friend that flew out of Ohare last Thursday and reported that "it was very eerie," very few people, but a good number of security walking around, including reservists. There were only 3 people in line to check in and only 6 going through the security check. They opened all the bags of everyone and checked them thoroughly.
When he arrived in Atlanta, that airport was packed and security less stringent. I heard from another friend who just flew in from Vegas, that she noticed nothing different going on than any other time. ???

Joy

 

[KXaggerator]

Monday I am flying to Leon, Mexico on business and I am bringing my notebook computer with me, so I will check back. This is my first flight since the events of 9/11. I am flying out of San Jose, and in the past they have always x-rayed my checked luggage hard sided tool case on a CTX and 9 out of 10 times they have swabbed my computer case for explosive residues. They also always make me flip through screens on my phone. I will miss curbside check-in, it really helped when I was running late.

 

[zio]

I remember switching planes in Frankfurt on my way to Hamburg (by myself when I was 15- Thanks mom!). I left the secured area by mistake, found myself in the underground parking garage:eek: got back to the main level with the help of some fellow American tourists, went through NO metal detectors, then passed through to the terminal checkpoint with a confused look on my face. Apparently if you looked American, no problem. Granted this was about 9 years ago and I was still several months away from my first shave. You should have seen customs! I had to ask them to look at my passport so I could get a stamp for my collection!

 

[Jaybird]

If you are just changing planes, you should still be within the control area. This means you have underwent security(supposedly) somewhere.

I have worked in many airports. I have ramp passes to several major ones. There is night and day difference in the normal security and that of the customs. Customs security is serious business, and always has been. Most international arrival flights have cameras on you as soon as you step out of the plane in the little tunnel. They have personnel that are trained to spot suspect 'body language'. So, just acting nervous can get you a nice 1 hour total inspection.
Until recently, the thing they look for most is fruit. Yes, the FDA has dogs in every customs that sniffs for produce. Most think they are drug dogs, and they will sniff out pot, but they are mostly concerned with fruits that may carry some sort of blight. (wonder who will cut-n-paste that one)

Anywho, if normal security in airports would take on the posture of the US Customs, I would feel mucho safer.

BTW...Anyone flying into Logan can see some of my handywork out front of Terminal E (international arrivals/Lufthanza). Big stainless contraption on the sidewalk....they place those rental carts (Smarte Cartes) in the door of it and they are transported inside the terminal. Don't try entering it, I installed a security system and even a pack of smokes in the basket will set it off.
Most of my conveyors are hidden from public view, but you can also see one of them at Philly...far right side of arrival terminal(customs area).

<-----proud of his work :)

 

[KXaggerator]

Well, I am back from Mexico and here is the run down on the airport security as I saw it:

San Jose to LAX: Checked one bag. I showed ID and ticket then went through a security metal detector checkpoint with my notebook attaché. They x-rayed my computer and then swabbed it for explosives. Two armed police officers at checkpoint more in terminal.

LAX to Leon Mexico: Checked one bag. I showed passport and ticket then went through a security metal detector checkpoint with my notebook attaché. They x-rayed my computer and then swabbed it for explosives. One armed police officers at checkpoint, half asleep, more in terminal. I showed my passport as I got on the plane. On arrival to Leon I had to walk through a decontamination tunnel that was full of some chemical mist, kind of creepy. There were soldiers armed with automatic weapons on the tarmac. Asked to showed passport and immigration forms to Immigration.

Leon to Mexico City: Carried on two bags. I showed passport and ticket then went through a security metal detector checkpoint with my notebook attaché and carry on suitcase. They x-rayed my attaché and suitcase. I showed my passport as I got on the plane.

Mexico City to LAX: I showed my passport and ticket and went through a metal detector, each piece of luggage was x-rayed and searched and I had to boot up my computer and turn on my phone, and they confiscated my razor blade (checked luggage) and the batteries out of my Walkman, all this just to get to the international Aeromexico ticket counter. Then I went back to the unsecured area. I had to show my ticket and passport again and pass through another metal detector where I was also wanded and my attaché x-rayed. At the gate I once again had my attaché searched and I was wanded. The flight crew went through an even more through search and wanding. One had his fingernail cutters confiscated. The funny thing about Mexico is that there were many police officers in the airport with holsters and bullets, but no guns. Very good security.

LAX to San Jose: I was running late so I carried on my luggage. I picked up a bottle of Gran Centenario Anejo tequila while in Mexico City and I had this in my suitcase. I went through security and they x-rayed both pieces of luggage. They did not swab my computer this time. I showed my ID and got my green Southwest plane pass. I then went to get the latest copy of Transworld Motocross, on the way back to my gate I was thinking that I could switch my plane pass with a stranger and they would never know. I got on the plane with the tequila and I could not help but think that I could do more damage with that heavy glass bottle then the person in front of me could ever manage with the tweezers she had confiscated, heck I could do more damage with my pen.

Conclusion: American airport security is still weak and misguided as I see it.

 

[AnneBrooks]

Interesting thread.

Yesterday I had the honor of going to the Sears Tower. I used to work in the building for several years, so it was no big deal for me. I was told by several of my friends that the security was extremely tight there and to arrive much earlier than my appointment. Needless to say, I arrived early and only had to show my ID, they wrote my name down on a list and who I was visiting, then searched my bag and I was in. That's it!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not believe it was that easy. In 1994 I had to go to the World Trade Center--this was after the first bombing. They TOOK

 

[KXaggerator]

Ivan,
The bus incident you spoke of is a good example of one of my biggest fears since this all happened. I am saddened by how Americans are so willing to role on their backs and play dead in the name of security in all this aftermath. Right now it is such a dangerous time for civil liberties. If a person did have a bomb, why would they call the police and why would they not just blow up the bus. That sounds like an over reaction to the situation. Every time that I see a citizen at a traffic stop submit to a unwarranted search of their vehicle because 'they have nothing to hide' I cringe. If you have nothing to hide they should not be checking your vehicle, it is an erosion of Constitutional freedoms. I have never been asked to be allowed to search my vehicle, but when and if I am I will refuse, even if I am in a hurry. I do think airports are a legitimate place for limited freedoms, as the need for increased security is required for air travel to properly function. We all know that this is the conditions before we enter the airport; flying is not a protected right.
I am so sick of bomb threats, I think it needs to be an even larger felony in which you would be deemed a terrorist. We need a public campaign on this to help eradicate it.

 

[AnneBrooks]

Interesting thread.

Yesterday I had the honor of going to the Sears Tower. I used to work in the building for several years, so it was no big deal for me. I was told by several of my friends that the security was extremely tight there and to arrive much earlier than my appointment. Needless to say, I arrived early and only had to show my ID, they wrote my name down on a list and who I was visiting, then searched my bag and I was in. That's it!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not believe it was that easy. In 1994 I had to go to the World Trade Center--this was after the first bombing. They TOOK my ID until I left the building, and searched me and my possessions. This is what they should be doing---not just writing your name on a list.

Also, speaking of racial profiling--last night on 20/20 John Stossel had a special on this. He had 2 examples--DWB, which means Driving while Black and how the cops were using that as an excuse to stop black men while driving. And then they came up with FWA---flying while Arab. They asked numerous people about it and most said yes, it was racial profiling and they should be doing it--even though it is not right. They even had a flight crew that refused to leave the ground because there was an Arab on the flight, and they told him to leave the plane or the flight would not leave the ground.

Just thought I would share, but I don't have any answers either.

 

[Hucker]

My gf just came back from Greece. 4 hour security check in Athens, told to get to the airport 10 hours before the flight. Armed guards in the airport. Yeah it seems that some places have stepped up security.

 

[Jaybird]

This racial profiling thing is rediculous. Why are people so uptight about it? I think some folks just have to find somthing to be victoms of.

If I get pulled over it's more than likely not because of the color of my skin. BUt, I would think that if it were, and I was guilty of no crimes, that at least our law enforcement is doing something. I find that much better than the alternative of doing nothing. I mean, please...how many times would the same guy get pulled over after being stopped the first time? Someone may have a complaint if he were pulled over several times and had done nothing each time...that dips into harrasment catagory. If I were pulled over and checked out just after the Oklahoma bombing thing,(being white) it wouldn't bother me one bit. Profile away, I say.

Kinda like a pis test...about the only folks who balk at these are the ones who will probably fail it.

"Sir...is this test for distance or accuracy?" :silly:

 

[Wolf]

This racial profiling stuff is a bunch of crap. People seem to use it to get themselfs in the spotlight. A bunch of whiners! And it only works because of our "rules" of political correctness.
In many european countries police has the authority to search your vehicle without cause. Simple routine checks. No one complains unless they have something to hide. They "inspect your vehicle" for roadworthiness and plenty of times they find other illegal things like drugs, weapons, arabic flight manuals, etc. Do they profile? I am certain of that but who cares! They pull drunks off the road, they arrest crooks, etc.
All things that let you sleep a little easier...unless you have something to hide!
The cops there pick a geographical area and then they station "inspection units" so that there is no way out with out being inspected or at least you have to drive by them. It depends on if they pick you or not (profiling).
And they do all this just for routine traffic checks.
Someone could claim that this infringes on peoples freedoms, and it does, but tell that to the guy who's kid just got hit by a drunk driver, or who's wife just got shot by a crook.
I would certainly be willing to accept inconveniences like this as a trade off for
a little more peace of mind especially if it helps to get a little more control over the "bad elements" of society.

My point is this: We are all going to have to accept changes in law enforcement practices. That's all.
Racial profiling? Only applies to you if you are a racist. The diversity that trademarks our society and that is so great will always provide for someone to claim "victim".

 

[DSsuper92]

It's very easy to say that being pulled over because you're of a certain race wouldn't bother you when it hasn't happened to you. Imagine being harrased by the police because you drive a certain car or look a certain way. When I was younger I hated it when people thought I was up to no good because I was younger.

Drug tests besides being an invasion of privacy are very easily beaten if you know ahead of time. They are a huge waste of corporate resources.

It's obvious that tighter security is needed but not at the expense of peoples civil liberties. Competent employyes would be the first and most important step.

 

[Wolf]

Originally posted by DSsuper92
It's very easy to say that being pulled over because you're of a certain race wouldn't bother you when it hasn't happened to you. Imagine being harrased by the police because you drive a certain car or look a certain way.

I used to travel a lot. I have been searched plenty at customs and no, they don't just look in your suitcase:eek: Was it because I had long hair? I don't know. I didn't like it, but who cares. It was done because I probably fit a certain profile!
If you would like to talk about humiliating searches and being profiled, let's go.
Bottom line, if you don't want to loose your liberties and live with peace of mind to enjoy them you'll have to do more than cry foul.

 

[Skid Jackson]

I've never been a big civil liberterian but some of the responses in this thread are damn scarey. If you want to live where the police can search you for routine purposes then i suggest you move to europe or where ever they do that. But i'll be damned if i won't raise some hell if they start doing that crap here. I'll cut them some slack for a awhile after 9/11 but long term.... No way in hell. You can give up some of your civil liberties if you want but i for one will not!! And i don't need anybody taking my civil liberties to protect me. I will gladly assume all the risks of circulating freely about the country. Thats the price of freedom in todays world!! If your not willing to do so stay home!! Or go live somewhere else!!!

 

[spanky250]

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson that said: "He who is willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither."

 

[AJ Waggoner]

Spanky -
Thomas was a smart man that SHOULD have been "King" ..
;)

Skid ..well said..there are other answers to this problem than leaning towards a police state.
armed pilots and copilots would deter things a bit and not violate anyones rights.eh?
and i dont care what they do in europe ( yes ive lived many years there )..lol thats WHY the founding fathers came HERE ..:)

I for one do not wish to be a kept citizen of the state..or give up my freedom for "security"

With that said!
IMHO Racial profiling at the airports is another matter..it isnt a "freedom"!
you are agreeing to go thru certain security screenings when traviling in a public air transportation system- this is not YOUR plane or your "'right" to fly without being checked over.
your actions may and will effect the safety of many others.
It is up to the airline the FFA and security to decide who presents a risk..you may or may not be checked but KNOW when buying your ticket that you may and it is within the airlines rights!
read the fine print on your ticket before purchase.you then have the RIGHT not to fly if it offends you.
If you are of arabic decent at this time , expect to be checked, and no i would not condsider it infringing on my constitutional rights.
I have a friend that is american but looks arabic.. he just flew..they certainly checked EVERYTHING he had..was he annoyed? yes! did he expect it ? yes.
did he feel better that they were checking arabic looking people more thouroughly..yes

checking me in my car ,or home, that i own, for no apparent reason is another matter.

 

[Pokie]

Zio mentioned the Frankfurt airport... I always thought that airport was funky and not secure despite the presence of armed guards. This is the only airport where passport control and customs are totally independent of each other. You come through passport control and after a cursory look at your carry-on luggage, you are then in Germany and can just leave the airport if you like. If you have checked baggage you re-enter a secure area, actually going to the lower level and then go through customs. Ah yes, in 30 years I have never been searched in Frankfurt or any other major European airport; I have been searched only once on a return flight from Japan.... actually in Anchorage because I had a brand-new camera (which I declared)!
I have often been stuck in a line behind a bunch of Mid-Eastern types in passport control in Europe....
In Latin America I have been searched more frequently, but superficially so.
I have not flown anywhere since 9/11..... my first will be to Vegas in 2 weeks.

Let's hope that security is improved but is more efficiently handled....

 

[Wolf]

Back Paddle

Let me do a little back stroke here as I realize that my above post was not quiet appropriate. My comments were not supposed to encourage a "police state" at all, I was merely trying to make a point that racial profiling will be a necessity and security will have to change.

 

[Jaybird]

I don;t think any of us want a police state. But, folks that scream "violation of my civil liberties" need to take deep breath and then list those liberties.
Can you do it? I think not. Most think that anything they want to do is a liberty they have. Wrongo. I'm not trying for a flamed argument here, but many have no idea what our founding fathers wrote, let alone what they actually meant by writing.
Yes, we have a right to our privacy in our own homes, it is written so. But, you DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS as far as privacy in your automobile. Show me this in the US Constitution or it's amendments and I'll stand down.
If you drive on a road, you are exercising a privelage that the the state has extended to you. The state also has as much right to pull you over FOR NO REASON, as it does to LET you drive on it's roads. I think many folks feel that since they are sort of private in their auto that they should have the same rights as they do in their homes. I say BS. How do you think they get by with roadblock DUI checks? Because they CAN and they SHOULD.
Just think how much better off we would be if every automobile had a sensor that alerted law enforcement of alchohol presence in the car. One may see that as a violation of his civil liberties, I see it as a sensible thing that we will one day have to do. BTW, since when does an employer requiring a urine test for employment constitute a violation of any civil right? You think an employer owes you the job no matter what? And also,DSsuper92....let us know how your drug test goes EVEN IF you know ahead of time. Better yet, talk to someone who thought the same thing you did. Technology has caught up to the test decievers. I say if you feel a urinalysis is a violation of your civil liberties you not apply for a job that requires it and Viola...no violation!

I'd like to see a poll on how many think the ACLU is your friend.