Switch From 4 Back to 2-stroke?

Shig · Jul 19, 2004

Different strokes for different folks, but please don't take my 450 away. My knuckles have just healed from all the top-end jobs, and I'd have to give up watching Trading Spaces in favor of hitting the eliptical machine to get ready for a 250. If it's all the same to you guys, I'd rather keep Krispy Creme on my daily schedule and continue my hill-climbing dominance over fifth-graders on 80s.

steve125 · Jul 19, 2004

Shig said:
Different strokes for different folks, but please don't take my 450 away. My knuckles have just healed from all the top-end jobs, and I'd have to give up watching Trading Spaces in favor of hitting the eliptical machine to get ready for a 250. If it's all the same to you guys, I'd rather keep Krispy Creme on my daily schedule and continue my hill-climbing dominance over fifth-graders on 80s.

Ok after that, the word for the 450 is "lazy".

JK,, Shig, the 450 is a nice bike for the open class minded.

pace · Jul 19, 2004

At the risk of perpetuating another four-versus-two discussion, I'll just note that I saw at least one four-stroke in every novice class stall at the local races yesterday. Only two got them re-lit, and that after a good 10-15 kicks. The rest all retired. I low-sided my 250 and it took all of my energy just to left it out of the dirt and kick it twice!

-Pace

gwcrim · Jul 19, 2004

Great bike for the lazy: KX500

Rarely needs a top end and all you do is look at the throttle to beat those 5th graders!:nener:

JasonWho · Jul 19, 2004

Wait a minute. I am planning on racing a local MX race at some point. A stalled 4-stroke competitor mght be my only chance to not get last place.

VIVE LA FOUR STROKE!!!

Lonewolf · Jul 19, 2004

i am on my 2nd four stroke, i had a 02 yzf250f which was pretty much my first real bike and is what i learned to ride on, now i have a 04 crf250. i like the four stroke a lot but i hate the maintenance, i am also worried that my engine will blow up unexpectedly, because if it blows up, i dont know how i would be able to afford a rebuild for awhile. i am thinking about buying a used 250 two stroke in the spring. the only problem is i have very little expirence with two strokes, i rode my freinds 04 yz 250 and the hit is pretty scary to me, and i rode a 03 rm 125 and it just didnt have the torque. im just worried that i will never adapt to the hard hitting two stroke if i buy one.

MWEISSEN · Jul 19, 2004

I've got my son's friends CRF250R in our barn right now, about 3 months old. It looks like it's going to need some major top end maintenance. Stay tuned.

GhostRider32 · Jul 19, 2004

Just like with any bike, you get used to the hit or to the torque. After a few rides, you'll get adjusted to the bike and it won't be a problem. If you've rode a 250f, you can get used to a 250 2 stroke if that's what you want.

john3_16 · Jul 20, 2004

I would go with the 2 stroke.... The maintenance is much more simple plus the cost is much cheaper....

Not to mention the lightness...Like the above poster said, once you get used to the hit it'll be nothing to worry about...

MWEISSEN · Jul 20, 2004

Here's a comparison of costs from my real-world experience last winter:
Top end, YZ250F - new head, cam chain, 5 valves, 5 springs, exhaust cam, piston, rings - $1450
Top end CR250R - $97
Top end KTM 250EX/C - $110

That may not be a totally fair comparison because the 250F really tanked the valve gear, but you get the idea. The piston and rings alone on the 250F were more than the ones on the 2 two strokes.

KX02 · Jul 20, 2004

Yz250f=ouch

Uchytil · Jul 20, 2004

$cash$

I like Mark W's real world comparison. It is fair to include the valve train components, that's what's in there. I "almost" jumped ship and got on the straight gas bandwagon, but, at our level of riding, we stuck to the 2 smokes and added another steed to our stall. I just gutted my son's 97 YZ125, threw in a new crank, and it cost me about 400 bucks for all the new seals, bearing, crank, and top-end components. What a deal! He still beats a bunch of YZ250Fs that are newer In His Class. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for all things with two wheels, heck I love XR's - you can't kill em and that's what we all grew up with, me and the boys. The pros and such can make the bikes work for them and they can probably afford the parts. I'll keep pushing the yz's and cr's around till I get old (er) and have to take up golf or the man throws the book at me. In Michigan I love the smell of castor all the live long day!

john3_16 · Jul 20, 2004

FORTYPLUS said:
I like Mark W's real world comparison. It is fair to include the valve train components, that's what's in there. I "almost" jumped ship and got on the straight gas bandwagon, but, at our level of riding, we stuck to the 2 smokes and added another steed to our stall. I just gutted my son's 97 YZ125, threw in a new crank, and it cost me about 400 bucks for all the new seals, bearing, crank, and top-end components. What a deal! He still beats a bunch of YZ250Fs that are newer In His Class. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for all things with two wheels, heck I love XR's - you can't kill em and that's what we all grew up with, me and the boys. The pros and such can make the bikes work for them and they can probably afford the parts. I'll keep pushing the yz's and cr's around till I get old (er) and have to take up golf or the man throws the book at me. In Michigan I love the smell of castor all the live long day!

So true......People have the false idea that if they get a 4 stroke it will be like an XR and all you have to do is change the oil and filter and you can ride it hard and it will be more reliable....

I will start talking to people when visiting the local dealership and I'll ask their opinion on the racing 4 strokes just to see what they'll say and there's an astonishingly high number of people that think they are much easier to maintain than a 2 stroke when the exact opposite is true....There is a huge misconception by the general public here on this issue...Four strokes are much more complicated to work on, and more expensive to maintain...Many more parts to deal with and because of all those extra moving parts you have many more possibilities for some type of failure...

Lonewolf · Jul 22, 2004

when i bought my yzf 250 i went to a local dealer to look at a 02 ktm 200mxc and i almost bought it until i noticed there the 02 yzf 250 there, the salesman told me that it was a lot less maintenance than the two stroke an me being pretty new to dirt bikes i belived him. in a way i am glad that i bought the yzf instead of the 200mxc because i think i would have had my hands full with the ktm concidering my riding expirence.

DougRoost · Jul 22, 2004

Come on guys, of course Honda will have '05 2 strokes. There was a great interview in a Dirt Rider mag last year of a Honda bigwig who said they had R&D budgets and plans for the next 10 years in 2 strokes. Said beyond that they'll have to see. You're being a little too paranoid to think that just because they haven't introduced them yet that they've killed them.

I love the tick, tick....BOOM comment!

mxer842 · Jul 22, 2004

How many of you two-strokers let your engines go until they grenade? Not many, most of you are doing atleast one top end a season and the racers are doing rebuilds a few times a season. That is the problem with the new four-stroke owners, they aren't taking the proper preventative maintainance to keep their new thumpers running. If you own a thumper at the very least, every season put a new piston in and inspect the crank and valves for wear. If valve clearance changes more than 10%( Is that the correct amount Rich?) from origonal then replace the valves. Grenaded engines are not something that just happens, people can see them coming if they do the proper preventative maintenance

JasonWho · Jul 22, 2004

I think you are very correct. A fair amount of folks think it is a XR, instead of designed for near-maximum output instead of near maximum reliability.

marcusgunby · Jul 22, 2004

I think the rmf is a hand grenade-no amount of maintenance will keep them together, they are a project bike thats been released too early IMO.

shnalln · Jul 22, 2004

Lonewolf said:
...in a way i am glad that i bought the yzf instead of the 200mxc because i think i would have had my hands full with the ktm concidering my riding expirence.

I think this may be a big misconception also. I had virtually no exp. on a two stroke in my younger years and after a ten+ year break I got a 250 two stroke mx'er...a four stroke wouldn't have prevented any injuries that I may have sustained just 'caus I'm not happy if my hair isn't on fire...I just don't know how to ride a bike slow...a two stroker isn't the be all, end all, better have your **** together before you get on one...anyone can learn as long they take the time...my buddies girlfriend putts around on his CR250! What did people do before the four stroke mx'ers...ride XRs? I think NOT...
Lonewolf, I don't mean to single you out, that's not my intention, I love to see new people get into the sport, two strokes or four, I just think people have a big misconception about what a two stroke dirtbike is all about...

slideways11 · Jul 22, 2004

I think you are absolutely right Marcus.

DougRoost · Jul 22, 2004

MXer842, I agree but with one major caveat. A top end in a 4 stroke is not just a piston. Preventative maintenance on a thumper means periodic replacement of those titanium valves, crankshaft, timing chain, tensioners, etc. In other words, pretty much all new engine internals. Read the recent (long) post in the thumper section on the guy who's 250f grenaded and you'll see Rich says essentially this (let the "250f cranks are throw-aways" comment sink in).

pace · Jul 22, 2004

mxer842 said:
How many of you two-strokers let your engines go until they grenade? Not many, most of you are doing atleast one top end a season and the racers are doing rebuilds a few times a season. That is the problem with the new four-stroke owners, they aren't taking the proper preventative maintainance to keep their new thumpers running. If you own a thumper at the very least, every season put a new piston in and inspect the crank and valves for wear. If valve clearance changes more than 10%( Is that the correct amount Rich?) from origonal then replace the valves. Grenaded engines are not something that just happens, people can see them coming if they do the proper preventative maintenance

Well I think the point is that it's pretty easy to tell when your 2-stroke needs a top-end rebuild, and it's cheap to fix. It's also extremely difficult to 'grenade' one, no matter how worn it is.

There's a big difference in both cost, time and expertise required to replace the piston and rings in a two stroke versus a topend rebuild and valve adjustment/replacement in a thumper. No matter how you spin it, the simple fact is that two strokes are less likely to suffer a catastrophic failure, are easier to work on, and cheaper to rebuild.

Oh hey, did I point out already that the 2005 YZ125 is 17 - yes, seventeen - pounds lighter than the 2005 YZ250F? :nener:

-Pace

gwcrim · Jul 22, 2004

JasonWho said:
I think you are very correct. A fair amount of folks think it is a XR, instead of designed for near-maximum output instead of near maximum reliability.

Cheap - Fast - Reliable

You can only have two.

:clue:

pace · Jul 22, 2004

Modern 4-stroke MX owners apparently can only have one - Fast!

-Pace

JasonWho · Jul 22, 2004

gwcrim, I think I will go with cheap and reliable. Oh, wait. I already did - KDX :-)

I wish they had something more performance oriented than a KLX 300, but not as high maintenance-performance oriented as a Honda CRF250X.

Switch From 4 Back to 2-stroke?

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slideways11

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