Switch From 4 Back to 2-stroke?

[DougRoost]

gwcrim, I think I will go with cheap and reliable. Oh, wait. I already did - KDX :-)

I wish they had something more performance oriented than a KLX 300, but not as high maintenance-performance oriented as a Honda CRF250X.

I've heard my share of valve/head problems on the KLX's after owning one and being a member of planetKLX.com for a couple years. It probably fills the gap between an XR250 and a CRF250X, without the resale of either :ugg:

 

[pace]

I wish they had something more performance oriented than a KLX 300, but not as high maintenance-performance oriented as a Honda CRF250X.

DRZ ?

-Pace

 

[DougRoost]

Nice try, but the DRZ is an overweight pig compared to even a KLX...

 

[pace]

All four strokes are overweight pigs, no?

But seriously.. I hear ya. There's no happy medium.

-Pace

 

[DougRoost]

Yes, either overweight or overzealous in their lightening to try to compete with the 2-strokes, which then makes them fragile. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to add up all those additional parts required to build an OHC 4-stroke engine and realize there's many more there than a 2 stroke.

Think about this. NASCAR engines spin to 9,000 RPM, yet the dirt bike mfr's are asking their 250F's to buzz to 13,000+ RPM repeatedly. Not that long ago these were Champ Car RPM's, but we're using traditional valvetrains rather than air-actuated valvetrains! Material science improvements have made it even work at all, but things are going to wear out pretty fast.

 

[pace]

How does the durability of the KTM 4-stroke motors compare with the YZ-F and CRFs ? My impression of the 400 at least, is that it occupies a somewhat more conservative state of tune and more 'traditional' 4-stroke power delivery..?

-Pace

 

[DougRoost]

You're right, you don't hear many of those grenading, though water pump seals fail often in early ones and they are a PITA for oil and filter changes. At least valve adjustments are easier since they're not shim-and-bucket types. I think leveraging Husaberg's work saved them lots of early teething problems, too.

 

[gwcrim]

That Cheap - Fast - Reliable thing got me thinking. Considering what a used KX500 goes for, how long the top ends last, and the blinding speed.....

Have I found the Holy Grail? :yeehaw:

 

[mxer842]

MXer842, I agree but with one major caveat. A top end in a 4 stroke is not just a piston. Preventative maintenance on a thumper means periodic replacement of those titanium valves, crankshaft, timing chain, tensioners, etc. In other words, pretty much all new engine internals. Read the recent (long) post in the thumper section on the guy who's 250f grenaded and you'll see Rich says essentially this (let the "250f cranks are throw-aways" comment sink in).

You are very right, but at the very least you should have your engine apart every year for a new piston and a close inspection of all the internals. These bikes are complicated to work on, so many people don't, but most of the grenaded engines are problems that were allowed to slowly develop, they didn't just happen over night. I just rebuilt my entire bike head to toe after only one race season per Rich's advice( and other interesting circumstances :joke: )my checkbook is feeling the pain, but that is the nature of the beast.

 

[Slack_505]

two strokes

If you look at any of the enduro series or gncc arent most of the people riding two strokes? Personally I went from a wr400 to a ktm 250exc. Why? Its lighter alot more nimble and I just have alot more fun. After a 50 mile ride I dont feel nearly as tired on my new 250 as on the 400.. When I purchased the bike my dad said. "you better start saving for a topend" Then I told him it would cost me about $100 for a new piston. Much better than $1500. :nener:
Seth

 

[CR3999]

I'm waiting for the 05 CR 250 to come out, I'm getting one no matter what the test in the mags have say about them. Long live the two smoke!

 

[KX02]

Are you sure the 05 CR250 is coming out? :think:

 

[mxer842]

Are you sure the 05 CR250 is coming out? :think:

With how long they are taking to release even pictures of it, I have to think that they are burning through the night to release a brand-new bike with something very suprising like someone said earlier.

 

[DougRoost]

My guess is the newly framed YZ two strokes have made them at least reconsider the marketing aspects/positioning of its introduction, if not accelerating something that was perhaps slated for '06.

 

[Lonewolf]

no hard feelings shnalln. my issue with the two stroke are due to the fact that i wrecked really bad on a 250 two stroke a few years back, i was riding like and idiot and had basiclly no riding expirence at all, to make a long story short i looped out while flying in 4th gear through an open field and ended up with bruised ribs, bruises and scrapes all over my body and i knocked my jaw out of alignment, ever since then i shyed away from 250's until i rode my friends 04 yz 250 a about a month ago. now that my skill are much improved maybe i should give the 250 two stroke a shot.

 

[CR3999]

Remember how Honda had all the problems with there frames when they first came out. I would wait and see how it goes first. Paley is that you?

 

[Moto Squid]

I absolutely love riding my 250F but lately have had the strangest urge to jump on a 125 and spin some laps. Actually I did jump on a 02 rm125 but man that thing was goofy...even last year when I had my 125 I couldn't get use to it. It'd be pretty cool to kick it on my old cr for a little while :ride:

I don't miss mixing gas...but I miss the reliability of 2 strokes. I'm always paranoid of valves and that crap right now :ugg:

 

[motojonny]

Mixing gas is a lot easier then changing oil and cleaning oil filters every other ride. Hop on a 250 2 stoke. It won't feel goofy.

 

[mxer842]

Mixing gas is a lot easier then changing oil and cleaning oil filters every other ride. Hop on a 250 2 stoke. It won't feel goofy.

I've actually been pondering the idea of selling the four-stroke and getting a YZ250 just to be back on a bike that isn't as pricey to fix when something goes wrong.

I've had the bike since February and so far have spent close to $7000!!!! :ohmy:( Those are just prices for neccesary parts, no bling!) :ohmy: When I was racing yz125's i was spending only a few hundred dollars a month keeping it running and in race condition, not anymore.

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

2 stroke for me forever! Mixing gas is not a big deal at all! How long does it take to mix gas and oil, shake it up, and dump it into the bike? A few extra seconds? Come on, how lazy can you be?? :laugh: Im lazy in my own way, but Im not that bad! :laugh: When it comes to a dirtbike, I will always be on a 2 stroke, even if the 4 stroke was thousands of dollars less in price, I wouldnt even consider it. Hey, Im not knocking you guys who do ride them and swear by them, we are all part of the same sport when you come right down to it. I am sure we all have a favorite BEER or SODA we drink. I am sure some of you guys like blonds and some of you like brunettes, am I right? Brunette for me! Mike :yeehaw:

 

[Moto Squid]

Soda?? you mean pop ;) I prefer (natural) blondes :yeehaw:

I'm not that lazy with mixing gas, ok normally :laugh: ...it's very nice when trail riding a thumper just to pull up to the pump, push the premium button and be done with it.

 

[steve125]

LOL Squid, just wait until your valves tighten up like all the other 250f's and it won't start. Then you will go from here :yeehaw: to here :bang:

 

[xrkx]

going back to 2-strokes too

I grew up with XRs and two stroke MX bikes. Retired for a good while and got back in to it a few years ago. My wife and I both ride trails most all the time. We were both on XRs but I got tired of seeing her fight the weight and starting. It was just to much for her. One day I brought her home a KX100 now she will have nothing to do with any other bike. She loves that KX100.

I have been wanting to get rid of my XR because I am bored with it and tired of the weight. It is a great bike but I am just tired of it. I have been looking at a lot of different bikes, both two stroke and four stroke. Motors blowing up is one of the biggest reasons that I have decided not to buy and new 4-stroke MX bike. All the new 4-stroke enduro bikes are all with in a few pounds of the XR. Or close enough for me not to be able to justify buying one. The 250 MX 4-stokes that I have ridden, I just thought that they were boring.

To cut my story a little shorter, I have decided to put a new 04'KX250 in garage in the next day or two. From what I have read about that bike, it will make a really good and really fun woods bike. I have to say that I feel like the two stroke will be around for a little while longer. If people start to see what it cost to keep the 4-strokes running compared to two strokes, they will go back to them. And if the 2-stroke sails start to come on strong again, they will live.

 

[DougRoost]

I was going to buy my 14 year old son a TTR125L or perhaps a CRF150 (XR150 truth be told), but just couldn't justify the added weight, poor suspension and brakes, etc. I bought him a 2002 KX100 and with the addition of a 10oz flywheel weight and adjusting some slack in the throttle cable, it makes a great woods bike. In fact, he recently swapped bikes with a buddy who had a TTR125L, and though he's not very good on his KX yet, he absolutely hated the weight and sluggishness of that TTR125.

Here's the fun part. I took it out to our club's family day last weekend and spent the day on it in tight woods myself. I'm 5'8" and everyone there said this bike was an unfair advantage! I also now will be better able to coach him through trail sections with my newfound understanding of this bike in the woods.

 

[xrkx]

You really like the flywheel weight? I was thinking of putting one on my wife's KX100. She likes the bike like it is and really doesn't have any problems with it but if it makes it that much better of a woods bike, then I may have to get her one.
If you don't mind, can you tell me a good description of how it makes the 100 feel?

Thanks.