The Price of Oil/Gas and why

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Uh oh batman! The bank and blockade thing are not real good. Bush is going to hand Barrack one hand full of trouble for sure! Some banks have been close to folding up already. I liked your statement about the main parties being so much alike Rob, but I have no idea what you belong too?

 

[Patman]

WOW!... Lot's of mights and maybes and what ifs in there.

 

[Solid State]

Especially the part about Bush handing Barrack anything!!

 

[fatcat216]

Jaybird- don't tell.

http://www.peteyandpetunia.com/VoteHere/VoteHere.htm

 

[2strokerfun]

People want to bash parties. I've been registered as both Repub and Demo, could really care less, I vote for the person or issues, not by party.

The fact I find most amazing is that when Bush took office, I was paying $1.35 a gallon.

Call it what you want. Put blame on whoever you want to put blame on. But it still amazes me that something could go down the crapper that bad during one man's presidency.

 

[SpDyKen]

Now we have hurricane panic to contend with.

One station (a grocery store, with a customer discount,) was at $3.52 (plus $0.03 disc.,) when they closed last night. At 3:00 pm today, they were at $5.20, then dropped to $4.60 at about 4:30. Two other discount stations nearby, (one a warehouse club,) were out of gas, and the BP & Shell had lines for their $3.99 gas.

Ridiculous! :whoa: :yikes: :bang: :|

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

What I think is so fruit is that the oil companies have raised prices based upon "this hurricane 'might' effect the refineries."
And I'm wondering how well it would go over with my customers if I say "well, a storm 'may' do damage to the storage building where the materials for your home improvement project are stored, therefore... you will have to pay more based upon an 'if." It appears that being in the oil business is a win/win situation.
From now on, if I can't make it to your home for a days work because of, rain, snow, or bad weather in general... I'll charge you anyway. :|
If I were to make totally self-centered, greedy business choices like these, I'd be unemployed real quick.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

No hurricane in Northern Indiana, yet? Crude is pretty low, largest stock of reserves in quite some time, so why in the hell did it jump from 3.70 to 4.09???? It did not do this last week when the other hurricane hit? Best answer, Al gore quit buckling the jet stream in the pacific, and is seeding clouds off the coast of Africa? When basic economics do not figure, politics and greed has already taken over.

 

[robwbright]

Sort of unrelated, but given that oil prices are directly linked to the economy and the economy is suffering greatly at the moment because of government interference in the housing market. . .

My favorite politician predicted Fannie and Freddie 5 years ago. . .

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul128.html

"This is because the special privileges granted to Fannie and Freddie have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

Despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government's interference in the housing market, the government's policy of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.

Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary, but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts.

No less an authority than Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has expressed concern that government subsidies provided to GSEs make investors underestimate the risk of investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

 

[fatcat216]

We're quoting Allan Greenspan? The guy who "had no idea that the subprime market had commanded such a large share of the market" while under his watch? The guy whose latest book is a revisionist fairy tale of what happened each time he ordered interest rates lowered to keep the housing market red hot?

Oh robbie! Proof that even a libertarian "free thinker" can be blithely naive.... I seriously need to get you on my friend Mike's political/pop culture email rag. You could rabble rouse the liberals, but I also guarantee you'll learn a thing or two and not go unchallenged... The conservative are mostly just angry at present, and only come out for the occasional name calling and swearing. (Seriously- He's extended an invite to you after I forwarded on some of your articles.)

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

"If" Sarah Palin gets in office, we may see some FatCats (no insult intended fatcat216 ;) ) held accountable. I bet they're shaking in their boots at the thought of her in office. Also... wasn't her husband a snowmobile racer? I'm thinking a good amount of the sled crowd also rides dirtbikes. I believe she sees much of the environmentalist's agenda as extreme stuff. Let's make sure all conservatives make it to the polls this year! (Liberals can relax and stay home :rotfl: )

 

[Ol'89r]

We're quoting Allan Greenspan? The guy who "had no idea that the subprime market had commanded such a large share of the market" while under his watch?

Right on fatcat. :cool:

It's Allan Greenspan and his successor, helicopter Ben that got us into this mess. Go back and read the very first sentence in Robs very first post in this thread. This IS the problem. Their answer to the problem is to throw more money at it.

Proof is in the last few weeks with all of the bail-outs going on. We have huge financial institutions that have been run by scoundrels. These scoundrels have cooked and bloated their books to make their companys look good. Then, they take early retirements with golden parachutes and retire with millions of dollars of investors money. Then after they are gone, they discover they company is actually in the red and has been for some time. The investors are left with a worthless company. So, the government throws a handout to them. A few million here, a few billion there. Hey, what the hell, we'll just print more. Way to go Ben. :|

This is just the beginning with the bail-outs. Next will be the insurance companys, (already happening) and then the auto makers. How many poorly run companys do you want to pay for and why is it up the the public to pay for poorly run companys????? If your business fails, can you go to the government for a handout? Hell no.

The more they print the less the dollars in your wallet are worth. Flooding the market with billions and billions of new dollars only devaluates the value of our dollar. In the first World War, the German Mark was devalued so much that people would burn Marks, (German Dollars) in their fireplaces to keep warm instead of fire wood. It was cheaper to burn dollars instead of buying wood. This is slowly but surely happening to our dollar.

What needs to happen is those people that bankrupt their own companys for profit should be arrested and put away for a very long time. Those companys that have been poorly run should be allowed to fail instead of bailing them out with the peoples money. Granted, this would cause a great upheaval in our financial system but, feeding more money to these crooks only prolongs the eventual 'day-of-reckoning.' Those politicians that lie and cheat and steal from the people should be made an example of. They used to tar-and -feather the *******s and run them out of town. Now they put their faces on the front page of the newspaper and talk about what a good job they are doing. Don't even get me started on the media.

Of course the American people are too busy to keep track of all this stuff. To busy working two and three jobs to pay for high gas prices and high food prices. Too busy playing on the computer watching the Jay and Larry show. It doesn't matter who is president. Either one is a loser and will continue to screw the American public. The whole liberal/ conservative movement is nothing but a distraction. Something to keep us busy arguing with each other while they screw us over and over. And it's working. Divide and conquer. We are more divided as a country than we have ever been.

What can we do? We can start by spending less time on the computer and more time writing to our political representatives and telling them how pissed off we are. How we have had a butt-full of this crap and it's time they start doing the job they were hired or elected to do. Go to the polls and vote the *******s out if they don't do what they are supposed to do. Instead of arguing with ourselves, argue with them. They are just people and can be contacted through many avenues. I can't believe that thousands of citizens are not marching on Washington right now. :yell:

Put yourself on a gold standard. Buy gold and silver and watch the value of your investment go up while the value of your dollars go down. Read as much as you can. Don't listen to the television media because they have been bought-off too and are lying to you as much as the politicians are.

Should we be happy that we are now only paying $3.50 a gallon for gas because six months ago we were paying over $4.00? No, because not long over a year ago we were paying half that amount. But people have been lulled into thinking we are getting a break now. Very sad.

It's up to we the people to make America great again. If we rely on our political representatives to get us out of this we are only going to get deeper and deeper in a pile of poo. Get off your asses and do SOMETHING.

 

[truespode]

"If" Sarah Palin gets in office, we may see some FatCats (no insult intended fatcat216 ;) ) held accountable.

No politician will ever hold the right people accountable... they will just blame the other party.

Things will only get worse until people stop taking sides and start solving problems.

Ivan

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

No politician will ever hold the right people accountable... they will just blame the other party.

Things will only get worse until people stop taking sides and start solving problems.

Ivan

First sentence: Pretty broad statement (like a politician?) with a blame pointed at someone else.
Second sentence: True in my opinion, but I can't do it all... which is why we elect those to represent us.

 

[truespode]

First sentence: Pretty broad statement (like a politician?) with a blame pointed at someone else.
Second sentence: True in my opinion, but I can't do it all... which is why we elect those to represent us.

Yes I blame the politicians in power. I voted and they got elected. Their responsibility is to my counties welfare, state's welfare and country welfare depending on who I voted for. That is what I voted them in for!

But they refuse to look out for their constituents welfare and constantly point fingers and avoid responsibility.

Even if I vote someone else in they will do the same (because that is the way it has always been)... I see it already on the political ads which basically say, "vote for me because I'm not the other guy."

We have to start voting in those not on the ballot, even if it is monkey or a dog it would at least put something competent in office or maybe send a message that we refuse to accept what our governmental leaders have turned into.

Ivan

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Well said.
Straying from "gas and why" for a moment...
I believe this whole ugly, financial mess that America is in, is MY fault. I'm greedy. If I want "stuff" so badly that I'll go beyond logic (what I can afford) to someone greedy like me who paints a rosey enough picture saying "sure, you can afford it, we'll lend it to you", then I AM the knucklehead for believing what I WANT to believe even if it's totally illogical. And do I often vote for who'll put the most money in my pocket?
A quest for "what I deserve" has no boundries.
The pursuit of "want and happiness" is an unfullfilled addiction.
But serving "needs and fullfillment" builds character and maturity.
We'll be dead and gone someday throwing our kids under this bus we've empowered... and what a selfish, greedy, "someone elses fault" example we have left them with.

The blame is in the mirror.
Good news! (I'm going riding Saturday :yeehaw: )

 

[fatcat216]

hmmm. a citizen's march.

 

[Vic]

This is just the beginning with the bail-outs..... and then the auto makers.

Already happened.

The Next Bailout Is Old News

By Charles Delvalle

After the recent bailout of AIG, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae, investors are wondering if the Big Three - Chrysler, GM, and Ford - are next. Sorry to tell you, but they've already been bailed out.

It happened without much fanfare last December, when Congress approved a $25 billion loan package for the Big Three (about $8.3 billion per automaker). This loan was passed in part to help spur the development of fuel-efficient engines, designs, and technologies.

 

[Ol'89r]

Already happened.
The Next Bailout Is Old News
.[/b]

Well, there ya go. :ohmy:

We're screwed. :yikes:

 

[Vic]

One thing to keep in mind is that most of the woes that these companies face were CAUSED by government mandates. So, they CAUSE the problem, then ride in on their white horse to fix it with OUR money. Unfortunately, we have a HUGE segment of the population that thinks government is the ANSWER, when, in fact, it is the PROBLEM.

 

[Vic]

Here's a good read.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306716557967194

 

[Jaybird]

When I was in high school, I moved from one school to another rival school. I played football, and when I joined the rival school team, I decided to sandbag at practices a bit...hell the coaches didn't know me or my limits. I would especially sandbag during wind sprints, but one day I was up against a pal who I wanted to beat, so I poured it on. Big mistake...the D coach was paying attention to the sprint races.
He motioned me over before I even had my breath back, and said "Burke my friend, you are seriously ******ed from now on".

I want everyone to take close notice of how fast our government, including both the administration and the congress, moved on this economic bailout issue.
We should from now on hold congress and the administration to such expediency and hard work in the future. Won't happen, but by gawd it should! But I digress....

The gov made talk of the formation of an additional agency, that would take on the bad dept that financial institutions are holding. This made the market soar, and rightly so. If I were a finance man, I would think it a great thing to have someone shoulder my bad debts. What a deal! And I would also be thinking that those loans that I have that are not 100% golden...meaning the ones that do not pay their bills a week or two in advance every month, are going to be put on my bad debt roster.
I will make certain that if I have someone that is, ohhh I dunno, maybe a DAY late, they will be put on the bad debt list. This will make things just peachy keano for the loan holders, but look out consumers.

This whole thing scares me (as a consumer and not a finance man) at first sight.
What say you, Vic?

(I have yet to see ONE instance where our gov taking over anything at all turned out well)

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

AIG was reported to have holdings in the trillions. What would have happened if they went belly up? Our national debt is the only one capable of taking on such a load? Who is next? The bail out ball is rolling. WAMU was on the chopping block early this week. A lot of the issues are coming to press after the fact. Gas started this thread, there is more on the market than has been in a long time. Too bad it has not been reflected at the pumps. Sure a lot of talk about more drilling off shore, and busting open Alaska. May be why why our prices are not the same as other countries? Now stepping in and putting watch dogs and/or over hauling wall street is in order? So much for free enterprise? Bad to worse, and we are just along for the ride.

 

[Vic]

What say you, Vic?

I think it sucks. I HATE the fact that Uncle Sam has his fingers in everything. I also HATE the fact that the criminals on Wall Street are able to get away with shorting stock that doesn't exist and other such shenanigans. But, I think we are on the verge of the greatest worldwide economic expansion of all time. In ten years we'll all wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

[BSWIFT]

But, I think we are on the verge of the greatest worldwide economic expansion of all time. In ten years we'll all wonder what all the fuss was about.

Next "arms race"?