The public's return to 2 strokes

_JOE_ · Sep 27, 2009

I'm open to anything that works. Be it a 4 stroke, an electric bike, a 2 stroke or whatever. My 250f WORKS FOR ME. It does, fairly well, anything I ask it to. We go to the MX track, the open forest, tight single track, gravel pits, swampy trails, back roads, huge hill climbs, etc. It does it all. It has been more reliable, easier to start and just as easy to work on as any 2 stroke I've owned. Sure it's different and over the course of it's life, hour per hour, it will be a little more expensive to properly maintain than a 125 2 stroke. I don't expect to be able to neglect it. Routine maintenance costs aren't much more than a 125 if you do your own work, it just takes a few more minutes. The difference is when you neglect them. Ride a 125 till it quits moving and you'll never spend more than 700 bucks to put it right. The 250f can exceed twice that in parts alone. The horror stories you hear are 95% of the time caused by lack of maintenance.

XRpredator · Sep 27, 2009

Rich Rohrich said:
. . . What seems to get missed in these chest thumping soap box proclamations becomes clear once the harsh light of reality hits things.

and I let my bike do the thumping. All the reality I need.

Joburble · Sep 27, 2009

longtime coming said:
We'll end up on electric bikes maybe. They won't sound or smell right, but probably perform well.

All you have to do is choose the color and your dress size. ;-)
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

Less Is More

A modern four-stroke liter bike has 19 moving parts per cylinder to make 160 bhp per liter.

A two-stroke needs just one moving part per cylinder to make 215 bhp per liter.

Two strokes,when one stroke is not enough and four strokes are too many.

Joburble · Sep 28, 2009

PaulKDX250SR said:
A two-stroke needs just one moving part per cylinder to make 215 bhp per liter.

As much as I would dearly love to agree with you, things that move, piston, rings, gudgeon pin, little end etc etc...

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

As much as I would dearly love to agree with you, things that move, piston, rings, gudgeon pin, little end etc etc...

LOL :laugh: Good point, that makes about 25 parts for the four stroke. My bad :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

_JOE_ · Sep 28, 2009

How about the power valve assembly? How many moving parts there?

helio lucas · Sep 28, 2009

PaulKDX250SR said:
A modern four-stroke liter bike has 19 moving parts per cylinder to make 160 bhp per liter.

A two-stroke needs just one moving part per cylinder to make 215 bhp per liter.

Two strokes,when one stroke is not enough and four strokes are too many.

we are talking about dirt bikes. who cares for peak power?
even in gp (where peak power matters more then in the dirt) the factorys choose the 4st. please, search for torque and power curves of a 125 2st and a 250 4st.
there are several here in DRN, then you will understand...

that said, two stroke engine still has far more of a "black magic" the the 4 st. this is beneficent to the image of the 2st.

i will just keep riding if i can, no matter the kind of power plant the bike has... until they stop making or someone ban the two-wheels for an exchange to four-wheels... :think:

julien_d · Sep 28, 2009

_JOE_ said:
How about the power valve assembly? How many moving parts there?

4 in mine. Fortunately for me, my bike can run pretty well with or without them :). I wonder how well that 4t operates without it's valves??

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

How about the power valve assembly? How many moving parts there?

True true true, but the engine can function without Kips.

that said, two stroke engine still has far more of a "black magic" the the 4 st. this is beneficent to the image of the 2st.

What is all this hocus pocus black magic? ;) ;) ;)

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

4 in mine. Fortunately for me, my bike can run pretty well with or without them . I wonder how well that 4t operates without it's valves??

Owned! Love it ! LOL :rotfl: :rotfl:

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

Four stroke technology has come a long way in recent years, but the nails in the 2 stroke coffin have been far from hammered home my little pedigree chums:

http://www.pistonheads.com/lotus/default.asp?storyId=19428

http://paultan.org/2008/02/07/variable-compression-ratio-engine-concepts/

http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/bsengdev/bedoverview.htm

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

The ping goes on:

http://supertwostroke.com/_mgxroot/page_10759.html

sr5bidder · Sep 28, 2009

paul that cool in the operational cycle of that link.....

"All the true functions of a four-stroke - in two strokes"

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

paul that cool in the operational cycle of that link.....

http://supertwostroke.com/_mgxroot/page_10758.html

Yeah, it offers intriguing reading especially when most people think 2 stroke evolution died with the last Honda CRM250 ARs (Active Radical System) to trundle off the production line. circa 1999

Active Radical, I love that name!

XRpredator · Sep 28, 2009

sr5bidder said:
paul that cool in the operational cycle of that link.....

"All the true functions of a four-stroke - in two strokes"

so, two strokes are so awesome that people are trying to make them function like a four stroke?

does not compute.

julien_d · Sep 28, 2009

XRpredator said:
so, two strokes are so awesome that people are trying to make them function like a four stroke?

does not compute.

I'm not sure what to say.... Perhaps you should write them and ask them to drop that project immediately and begin work on something that makes more sense to you. At any rate, I doubt anyone sane would agree that adding a recirculating lubrication system to a 2t makes it "function like a 4 stroke".

Seems to me like a good approach to making a more efficient engine design more presentable to emissions committees and such. Should be a cool thing to keep an eye on.

_JOE_ · Sep 28, 2009

:rotfl:

I'm sure the 2 stroke will take over the world..........

PaulKDX250SR · Sep 28, 2009

The Honda CRM250AR come under criticism for 'feeling' like a 4st. Other people hailed the AR as arguably the best street legal trail bike ever produced.

Honda in their infinite wisdom never officially exported the bikes. They would have sold millions straight off the boat.

The CRM250ARs fetch a tidy sum in Nipponville, $2,500 for a 10,000 km model and the insane price of $12,000 large for a mint motarded model, mental, my my.

http://www.goobike.com/bike/honda__crm250ar/summary.html

sr5bidder · Sep 29, 2009

thats cool!! CRM250AR I want one

julien_d · Sep 29, 2009

Pointless argument anyway. 2 strokes are cool. 4 strokes are cool. If I could afford a spiffy new 250F I'd have one in the garage beside the KDX. I can not afford a new one, and I refuse to buy a used one. I keep my beat up old 2t's because it's cheap for me to buy them, and keep them running. Both engine designs have their benefits, both have their downfalls. Further research and development in either area should be of interest to all of us, and not be scoffed at or disregarded.

Anyway, lets just go ride! I'm taking the KDX to brushy mtn on saturday hopefully. It's been over a month since I've been able to get the bike out so I'm all geeked up about it. :D

reepicheep · Sep 29, 2009

Amen bruddah!

I've been off the bike since last Jan due to a torn ACL... and I am 2 weeks away from the Dr. appointment should give me the "all clear". During that time I have bought and restored a 95 KDX, and there it sits in the garage, just waiting for a real ride. (though I snuck out on a couple shake down rides around a field...)

Both me and my 9 year old riding buddy are going nuts waiting to ride again... he's stuck waiting for me, as I have to drive to pull the trailer :)

duke · Sep 29, 2009

Wow, looks I incited some commentary here. To be fair, as noted in my opening statement, the voicings making criticism about the 4 strokes stemmed from those who devote their time in MX. Most particularly those from the UK and Europe. There they have instituted a national and international series of races devoted to 125 2 stokes. Low cost has been the primary impetus behind the series devleopment. In reading of the series progress, I have come to learn that both Kawasaki and Susuki are still producing a 125, as they are being imported over there. This years British Championship title went to a gentleman on a TM125!-a marque rarely seen here.
I just found the whole thing refreshing and deserving of debate.

julien_d · Sep 29, 2009

I agree with your original post, that it is nice to see more and more 2t's on the trails/tracks all the time. I think that's what you were getting at mostly, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think the comments about sheep and the media may have gotten some of the 4t guys up in arms. Understandably so, I might add.

mudpack · Sep 29, 2009

I like two-strokes (witness my KDX200) and I like four-strokes (witness my KLX450 and CRF150R). I like dirt bikes.
Neither is sufficiently superior to the other to make it a no-brainer. They each have their pros and cons. As long as they are in a decent frame and have good suspension, they'll find a home in my shop.

The public's return to 2 strokes

_JOE_

XRpredator

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Joburble

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_JOE_

helio lucas

julien_d

PaulKDX250SR

PaulKDX250SR

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PaulKDX250SR

sr5bidder

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XRpredator

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julien_d

_JOE_

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sr5bidder

julien_d

reepicheep

duke

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mudpack

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