The public's return to 2 strokes

[julien_d]

I agree completely Rich. Only time will tell. I just try to avoid conjecture and assumptions as much as possible. I'm aware that public statements are often misleading, but public opinions can be even more misleading, don't you think?

I'd like to say, for the most part I have really enjoyed this debate. I would like to try to remind everyone that we are all in this together. We should all try to remember that any advancement in any field related to these machines either 2t, 4t, electric, or any other power source, should be encouraged by all of us and encouraging to us.

Get out and RIDE!

 

[XRpredator]

Keep hope alive, Luddites

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I agree completely Rich. Only time will tell. I just try to avoid conjecture and assumptions as much as possible. I'm aware that public statements are often misleading, but public opinions can be even more misleading, don't you think?

No question, but mine isn't so much of an opinion as an analysis of the facts and the way they relate to the manufacturing process.

People in general seem all to willing to ignore facts when they run contrary to their hopes and desires for the future. As motorcyclists we aren't exactly immune to this. ;)

 

[julien_d]

Opinions are (hopefully) formulated by analyzing the facts and reaching a personal conclusion based on those facts. So in fact, it IS an opinion.

Of course, KTM could be blowing hot air. I can't see any reason why they would tell outright lies about furthering development on 2 stroke technology though. Stranger things have happened I guess. When I hear it straight from the mouth of KTM that they will be suspending research and dev on 2t's, I will believe it. Either way it goes, there will be 2 stroke bikes available to me until I'm too old and beat to ride them anymore. That's good enough for me.

Pred,

I wish there was an iggy button on forums for people like you.


J.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Opinions are (hopefully) formulated by analyzing the facts and reaching a personal conclusion based on those facts.

Hopefully indeed. ;)

 

[jsantapau]

Opinions are (hopefully) Either way it goes, there will be 2 stroke bikes available to me until I'm too old and beat to ride them anymore. That's good enough for me.

Pred,

I wish there was an iggy button on forums for people like you.


J.

the public's demand for manufactured goods is too finicky to make a long forecast.

what I have seen in mainstream offroad bikes is that fourstroke bikes where king until two strokes got reliable enough to outperform them, European bikes where king until the Japanese took over ..... favorite 4 strokes went from 250cc and 500cc to 350 cc and 600cc to come back down to 250 cc and 450cc...... openclass two strokes went from 360,400 cc to 420.. 450 ..465... 480.. 490..500 and if I remember right KTM had a 550cc 2stroke.. now the only manufactured popular open class bike is the KTM 300.. now four stroke bikes are so strong and light they outperform 2strokes in a given class
Most people that buy offroad bikes really don't even know what they are buying them for (me included). They want to be able to go into a store and come out with something that yanks there arms off when they can stretch the thottle cable and maybe something they can tinker with in the garage.That's basicly why I have a WR 450 with a YZ cam in it when I realisticly should of bought a kdx 200 or xr 400. I couldn't even use those bikes to their full potential.

If the public wants to buy it someone will produce it or if you have enough money you can pay someone to make it.ie.. Service Honda And that will be pretty much the bottom line for what is available for us in the future......not including any government restrictions

 

[Joburble]

now four stroke bikes are so strong and light they outperform 2strokes in a given class

Sure, and the class is 125 2 stroke against 250 4 stroke, 250 2 stroke against 450 4 stroke. That's like saying I am a faster runner than Usain Bolt, however to beat him I have to start halfway down the track. Yay I beat Usain! "Strong and light", umm... strong, that definately up for debate and light, but not lighter. Just the facts. I like real thumpers, they definately have their place but a stroke of 62mm for a 450, wheres the thump in that?

 

[XRpredator]

first, what the hell is an iggy button?

second, it sure seems like the guys who are doing the most lamenting about the lack of new two strokes being offered by the manufacturers are guys who haven't bought a new bike in like, I don't know, FOREVER!

want 'em to make 'em? buy 'em!

 

[Joburble]

I bought 2 brand new bikes last year. KLX300 and KLX450. And a near new KDX200 this year. :nener:

.

 

[longtime coming]

I'm supporting the cause. 5 new 2 strokes in 3 years. And the old bikes are 2 strokes too. :nod: I am looking for another. 2 stroke, of course. At this point, the smokers are better for me.

 

[PaulKDX250SR]

The last brand new bike I bought was a Honda XR650R.
That bike is the dog's dangly bits. Just a totally awesome bike.

I wanted a big bore thumber which was plated so I didn't have to load it onto a truck to get to riding areas. I wanted a bike that would raise my pulse.

I wanted a plated big bore 500cc 2st. Couldn't find one.
Setttled for the XR instead. This was the bike that tamed Baja !

These bikes are stellar machines. Some say they are heavy. I'm a big lad. I bench,squat, dead. No worrries.
Freeking brilliant bike, man!

Reckon there is a loyal fan base out there for the XL/XR range.

And what do Honda do? Cut production of the 650R in favour of the 450F. Why T F would they do that I may ask?
The 650s were too good? Buy one and ride it until you reach old age and beyond. Not good for business.
I know, market a time-bomb four-fie for desert application.

Don't like it?

Buy an aging 650L then. Or the NEW EXCITING XR230 ! :bang:

Cut the 650 and make a 230 !
Freeking Dust to Borey :(

@ XRpredator I like your angle on this forum. Keep posting dude. You are entitled to an opinion.

 

[XRpredator]

I bought 2 brand new bikes last year. KLX300 and KLX450

The last brand new bike I bought was a Honda XR650R.

y'know, kinda hard for you to defend your position on wanting the OEMs to keep building two-strokes when I look at what you are buying. :think:

 

[T_Bois]

I love 2 strokes. My first big street bike was a 2 stroke and my first dirt bike was a 2 stroke. I love the power band and the way it comes on when as the motor revs.

I now own an xr600r because I wanted something that would have some low end for the 4x4 trails, but still be fast on the dirt roads. I now am looking at 350 or bigger 2 strokes for a secound bike.

The 600 is a great bike. I thought it may be a handful, but it's not that hard to get comfortable with. If you want a really want a challenge, just try and motorcross it.

 

[Joburble]

y'know, kinda hard for you to defend your position on wanting the OEMs to keep building two-strokes when I look at what you are buying. :think:

Here's why.
I used to like 2 and 4 strokes so last year I went to the Honda dealer to buy a new XR650R only to be told "sorry don't make em any more", so I emailed Honda, here is their reply
----------------------
Hi Simon, <-----Joburble

Thanks for your email and interest in Honda, unfortunately the XR650R is no longer available, I am sorry for your disappointment in not being able to purchase this model.

Kind Regards
Sam Gangemi
Motorcycles Marketing Coordinator
Marketing Department
Motorcycles Division
---------------------

I owned an XR600R some years ago (a true thumper), great bike and I even rode it in tight woods. I thrashed it, toured NZ 2-up on it, mx'd it (not wise) and woods raced it. The only maintenance I did on it was clean the air filter every ride, change the oil regularly and give it a valve grind that I did myself. I think they killed the big bore XR range because they were making no money on after sales parts.

Ok so lets buy a new CR500, same story.
That's when I bought the KLX450, I have never been so unimpressed with a bike. I even took it back to the shop and said there must be something wrong with it because it wasn't living up to all the hype about these great new 450's. They rode it for half an hour and said that is how they perform, that it was a great bike telling me how good the torque was, I don't think they know the meaning of torque. I should have sold it after the first ride, but I didn't want to loose all those dollars. It was just a pig, after it threw me off at low speed destroying my ACL in the process I sold it (I am not normally a crasher). I would rather ride an old tech KDX200 than a 450 anyday. That's why I am more keen on 2 strokes, and until they build a decent 4 stroke again I will be sticking to 2 strokes. If my choice becomes a modern high stress 4 stroke with cr*p torque and a high maintenance schedule or nothing I will take up another sport.

I just want the choice, and for the dirt I will definately choose a 2 stroke next time, even if it's second hand, but I would rather buy new if possible.

Go the smoker!!! Go the KDX!!!

 

[jsantapau]

Sure, and the class is 125 2 stroke against 250 4 stroke, 250 2 stroke against 450 4 stroke. That's like saying I am a faster runner than Usain Bolt, however to beat him I have to start halfway down the track. Yay I beat Usain! "Strong and light", umm... strong, that definately up for debate and light, but not lighter. Just the facts. I like real thumpers, they definately have their place but a stroke of 62mm for a 450, wheres the thump in that?

sure its apples and oranges with a few of Pred's purples tossed in but I didn't make the class rules... I am sure the manufacture's don't care about much except how they can make a competitive bike for the racing they support and how they can make a bike profitable on the show room floor BUT..... the real important question is do we sell bikes to support the racing or do we race to support the selling of the bikes

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Ask the oems how come street bikes cost the same/cheaper? Oh they tell you how they are making no money, REALLY though? Then you might get to the bottom of marketing strategies 101 from the orientals. And the "every one else is doing it", sheep!

 

[PaulKDX250SR]

Direct Injection Keeping the 2st Dream Real

It seems that most of the current research in 2st technology is being carried out by automobile manufacturers, Omnivore project is one such example:

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2008/10/lotus-omnivore-two-stroke-engine/

http://jalopnik.com/400401/the-lotus-omnivore-a-piston-engine-thatll-eat-anything

Aprilia with their RS250 back in the late 90's were trying to get a kick ass engine together but gave up after numerous problems. The company just went a rather disappointing route and bought thousands of reworked RGV250 motors from Suzuki.
The result was one of the greatest motorcycles ever built, but little progress in engine development.

Here's a little 2-stroke 101 to remind us what we have:

http://www.freeengineinfo.com/two-stroke-induction-1.htm

The Future Is Now
Well, not just automobiles.

Boats:
Mercury Two-Stoke outboard motors are producing 325Hp , utterly amazing. The engine is a 3 litre V6 two stroke.

Scroll down to foot of page for the 2st info.

http://www.devamarine.co.uk/mercury.html

Direct Injection:

http://www.synerject.com/di.html

 

[sx2504life]

Both 2 strokes and 4 strokes are good and its a shame that 2 strokes are fading out cause of the new laws but parts wont be hard to get hold of for many many years to come so we 2strokers dont need to worry but i ll only own and ride a 4 stroke when i cant get a 2 stroke anymore im just head over heels for that awsome power hit that you dont get out of a 4 stroke and there is something about the sound of a spoon getting smacked around a milo tin i like in my bikes

 

[mudpack]

The buying public can only come back to two-strokes when affordable new two-strokes are made available by the Big Four. I miss the smokers.

 

[XRpredator]

The buying public can only come back to two-strokes when affordable new two-strokes are made available by the Big Four. I miss the smokers.

affordable? What's your definition of affordable? They aren't gonna get any cheaper, friend.

Nobody was buying them, they quit making them.

 

[Tom68]

If the chinese aren't interested in making 2 strokes I can't see anybody else getting too excited about making them. Imagine the injuries if the chinese bikes with there topped out damperless bikes had peaky two stroke engines.

 

[Joburble]

Nobody was buying them, they quit making them.

I think the term 'nobody' is a little bit inflated.
I suppose nobody was buying the XR's either and that's why they stopped making them too eh.
You will have to become CRFpredator ;)

 

[PaulKDX250SR]

Four Strokes are boring.
What would life be without a little riinngg dinnnng ding?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

I think the term 'nobody' is a little bit inflated.
I suppose nobody was buying the XR's either and that's why they stopped making them too eh.
You will have to become CRFpredator ;)

The XR stands for Xavier Rodney, not xr.

 

[Joburble]

Doh! Too much assumption on my part.