Thoughts on re-spoking a rim

[KDXN200A1]

I found the excel rims online but I haven't got a good feel for what is required when it comes to building the wheel. Are their any special tools required like a jig, etc. I'd be willing to put in the time as long as I get a good solid wheel out of it. How many hours am I looking at total?

One thing I noticed was they didn't go back to the mid-80's on rim selection but I assume the wheels are the same, will check on that.

This things cleaning me out...

 

[Robcolo]

It's really not very difficult. The hardest part will be getting the nipples off of the current spokes. Start by spraying both ends of each nipple with penetrating oil & soak overnight. It can be ugly --if the'yre really rusted on and vice grips won't get them I've had to cut some of the spokes. Where the nipples do come loose, tie each 2 of those spokes together where they cross in the middle. After all nipples are off & spoke pairs tied, move the hub around as you pull all spokes from their holes. Any bent, broken or cut spokes are replaced at this time in the same pattern as the originals. If it's really old and you have to replace all spokes, take a closeup photo or make a good drawing. I like to take all spokes out and clean & paint my hubs when I rebuild a wheel. Someone else care to do part II --lace & true ??

 

[RM250'er]

 

[RM250'er]

If you have any questions, please ask...

 

[RM250'er]

Originally posted by RM250'er
KDXN,

 

[RM250'er]

Was this mess understandable???

 

[RM250'er]

Sorry about the spelling errors, I wrote this at 5:00am because I couldn't sleep and my subscription hasn't gone thru yet so I can't edit it...

 

[RM250'er]

Sorry for the multiple posts, I had an input problem...

 

[RM250'er]

Canadian Dave,

I Was able to correct the first post... could you delete the other posts along with this message... Thanks, Jeff

 

[TVRider]

Wow, great post RM250'er. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to DRN!! I love learning this stuff :aj:

Thanks,

Tom

 

[KDXN200A1]

Hat's off to everyone who responded,

I'm going to print it off and study it over. Being new here and seeing the quality of posts it only reassures me of my purchase. I can't wait to go tear it up when I get it back together. Thanks again, by the way RM250'er do I owe you for the hours of time you put into that post???

KDXn - 86'

 

[RM250'er]

It took around two and a half hours at 5:00AM... I was doing it off the top of my head so I hope it came out OK... Anyway, If you have any questions... Feel free to ask :)

Good Luck

REMEMBER... LITTLE TURNS!!!

 

[RJ-KDX]

I'm sorry maybe I missed something, RM250 some of your posts are blank. I didn't see the invisible post option on the DRN subscription page. :confused:

 

[canyncarvr]

It's not 5 in the a.m., but I'm missing something. Has this thread been mutilated or what?

Whatever rm250er said, it's not at all here now. There are multiple posts, but none of them say anything.

Did someone delete the wrong stuff?

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by canyncarvr
It's not 5 in the a.m., but I'm missing something. Has this thread been mutilated or what?

Whatever rm250er said, it's not at all here now. There are multiple posts, but none of them say anything.

Did someone delete the wrong stuff?

RM250'er says he relaces a lot of wheels and had a very nice post (long) describing his step-by-step methodology, which now seems to be AWOL

 

[HOTRODKY428]

WELL I HAVE A PAGE SAVED BUT CAN'T PUT IN A LINK. E-MAIL ME AT [email protected] I'LL SEND IT

 

[TVRider]

I saw the post and it was a great step by step for relacing a wheel. What a loss!

 

[canyncarvr]

[email protected]

comes back 'undeliverable'. My email is listed. Send me the page and if it's useable I'll try to get it reposted.

 

[RM250'er]

Hi Guys...

I don't what happened... I'll repost it...

Jeff

 

[RM250'er]

:)
Here it is...


If you don't plan on building a lot of wheels and are only going to try one then you don't need a truing stand although they make life really easy...

The above way will work but I really like to take the wheel completely apart and buff the hubs and really clean them well... I don't know when the next time I will have the hub apart so I can clean it like this...

ITEMS NEEDED:
* A vice or black & decker workmate. (I use a K&L truing stand)
*A "GOOD" spoke wrench.
*A spoke torque wrench- If you have it. If you are going to do a couple of wheels, I highly recommend one... www.fasstco.com - They're one of my racing sponsors Tell them Jeff Roberto sent you.
*A large screwdriver or hex wrench - (depending on the nipple)
*Liquid Wrench
*(Ready for this...) Bright nail polish - I'll explain... don't worry. (a black sharpie marker will work as long as the rim is not black)
*Something to use as an indicator to see if the wheel is true that won't move... a steel rod... (I use 2 dial indicators to check up/down and side/side movements at the same time and I true to within .008" (probably overkill)
*Some type of way to get a "very accurate measurement" - I use a 6" dial caliper that shows down to .001"
*A 24"or so, straight flat metal bar. (1/2" wide or something) The local hardware store sells them like this.
*A note book or paper.
*A pen.
*5 lunch size paper bags (I'll explain)
*A dixie cup filled 1/16" to 1/8" with oil.

Once the tire is removed. Choose a starting point on the old rim like a rim lock hole or valve stem hole. Directly above it, between the hole and the nipple above it, take the nail polish (or black sharpie) and draw an arrow pointing to the disc (or brake drum). Put a "D" for disc next to it.

Directly below your starting hole, Number next to the 4 nipples that come toward you in order - 1,2,3,4 - use one small dot for #1, two small dots for #2...(one being closest to the starting hole).
Now mark the attached spoke 1/2 way down with one dot for spoke#1, on spoke #2 place 2 dots...3... and 4.

Follow the spokes to the hub and again mark the hub where the numbered spoke goes into it with 1 dot for spoke #1, 2 dots for spoke#2.... 3...4.

Take your paper bags and write "front or rear" for the tire you are doing. under that write #1 on one bag, #2 on the second bag, #3 on the third, #4 on the fourth and nipples on the fifth. Find the # 1 on the hub and on the #1 bag under #1 write if is the brake side or non brake side and then write if the spoke goes to the inside or outside of the hub. So the # bag should look something like this:

FRONT
#1
Disc side
Outside

Next, take that flat piece of metal bar and lay it on it's edge across the disc or hub so the ends extend over the rim edge (be sure the metal is flat on both ends of the hub. Take the dial caliper (or whatever you chose) and measure the distance between the rim and the metal edge... write this # down on the paper ( like 1.324"...) next to that number you wrote, write "measured on Disc side with disc mounted" or "measured on disc side without disc mounted" or however you took the measurement. - Be sure you are flat on the disc or hub and not on a bolt or spacer... You can measure the other side if you want to...(I do, just to be sure)

It's a good idea to try and make a drawing of the wheel looking from the side of the hub (write down which side you do). You only have to draw 4 consecutive spokes (it will be 2 from each side - spokes 1 & 3 and spokes 2 & 4) because the pattern just repeats... (make a note of how many times a spoke crosses another spoke... usually the front crosses 2 spokes and the rear one...)

Take a quick look and see if you see any threads on the spoke where the nipple screws on to... again jot yourself a note... (i.e.. 4 threads showing) - Don't do every one, just get an idea.

Next take your new rim and put it along side the old laced rim and align the rim lock or valve stem hole. once you align the hole, look to see if the other hole lines up. If the don't, turn the rim around and try again... If the valve stem and rim lock spacing is different, choose one and line it up. The rims should be against each other side by side. Now, look at the hole angles and make sure your new rim hole angles line up to match your old rim hole angles... Once you are sure you have the rim exactly like the old one... get out your nail polish (maybe not yours but your wife's ) and transfer the "dots" to the new rim along with the arrow and the "D".

OK, now the fun begins... by the way, after you do about 50 wheels, you really don't have to do all this this way... you will be able to just look at it and know which thing goes where - I'm writing this so anyone should be able to do it and if you make a mistake, you will have a note to tell you exactly what went wrong...

You should have: 5 paper lunch bags with writing on it, the old rim marked, the new rim marked, the spokes marked, the hub marked and a piece of paper with the offset measurements on it...

Spray the nipples with liquid wrench and lit sit for a few minutes (sit back and admire how organized everything is...)

Use the spoke wrench to break all the spokes loose... don't take any off until you break all the nipples loose. If you can't get one to break loose, try tightening it a little first. Be sure you have a spoke wrench that fits perfectly or I promise you will round some nipples...

Once you get them loose, take the #1 spoke one completely off and count the # of turns it took to come completely off ( I know this sounds like overkill but someone will skip one of my suggestions or you will make a mistake and to try to see what you did wrong... This will show you exactly what went wrong. You may not need any of these notes - just in case) If another spoke blocks it from coming out don't worry, just note the # of turns it took to get it off and put the nipple back on by hand a couple of turns.

OK, get all the spokes loose enough so the rim really rattles around and then begin to unlace (you should be able to use the screwdriver)... Place all the #1 spokes (disc side - inside or whatever it is) in the #1 bag all the #2 spokes in the #2 bag... 3...4. Oh yeah, place the nipples in the nipple bag.

You should now be looking at a bare hub, two rims and 5 full bags.

Time to relace:

Stand or lay the new rim on the floor so the "dots" face you. Place the hub in the rim so the "D" points to the disc.

JUST A NOTE:
On the newer dirt bikes where all the spoke heads come from the same edge of each side of the hub... I start with the outside spokes, on older hubs where the spoke head is on both sides of each hub end, I start with the inner.
Which ever one you have, find your bag and do all one #. So if you have a newer hub and #1 bag is "disc side - outside" start with that bag.

For the sake of these instructions, I'll say we are starting with #1. Find the 1 dot you put on the hub and the one dot you have on the new rim. Dip the threaded end of the spoke in the cup of oil and shove the spoke thru it. Put a nipple on it a turn or two. Count 4 holes and put another #1 spoke (dipped in oil) thru the same "disc side - outside" of the hub and thru the hole four away from the hole you just put a spoke thru and give it a turn or two by hand. Repeat this until all #1 spokes are in the new rim.

Now, do the other side - outside... look on the bag for the bag that says "outside - non disc" and see what # is on it... let's call it #4... lace a spoke (dipped in oil) thru the #4 spot of the hub to the #4 spot on the rim. Count every 4th place and lace a spoke, hand turn the nipple a couple of turns... repeat for the remaining bags.

If everything went well, your new rim should be hand laced and really rattle.

Now, (if you are using a vise or workmate, put the axle thru the wheel and mount the wheel so it is vertical. Be sure to mount the wheel so it can't "walk" on the axle. You may want to leave the axle nut off the axle and put the threaded end of the axle into your vice (protect the threads) right up against the wheel spacer - the other side of the axle is the bolt head -be sure it's up against the wheel. Spin the wheel to make sure it spins easy.

Hand tighten each spoke a few turns, turn the wheel, hand tighten the next, turn the wheel..... do this until the spokes are hand snug. Take a look to see if all the spokes have about the same amount of threads showing and kind of adjust by hand. The wheel should spin fairly rattle free now. (It will wobble like heck and move left to right a bunch...)

This is where it fun begins... I will try as best as I can to explain how the truing is done but this is the area that will drive most people nuts.

At this point, you need to try to adjust the vertical movement first and the side to side movement second- but with it... (does that actually make sense) - Clamp the steel rod you choose to use as the indicator so it just misses touching the bottom edge of the rim... Very very slowly, spin the wheel and watch the indicator. Turn the "group" of spokes (3-5spokes) that get close to the indicator 1/8 or 1/4 of a turn... Take your time and remember "very little turns" will save you a lot of time and headaches! Repeat this cycle over and over and over.... But the spokes shouldn't be tight, just kind of snug. Remember, the rim is a circle - as you tighten the spoke, the you are moving the rim in... which means, the rim on the otherside of the hub is moving out and those spokes are getting tighter...

Now, take that flat metal bar that you used to take the offset measurements, lay it on end across the hub or disc (whatever you wrote down) and measure how far off you are. If it's too far away, and you are measuring the left side of the wheel, the spokes that come from that side of the hub need to be snugged alittle (REMEMBER.... LITTLE TURNS) and the right side may need to be turned a little loose. Keep taking measurements from different areas of the wheel... Once you get the measurement close, check the up down movement. Once the up/down movement is in control and the measurement is on, move the indicator to the side of the rim (really close but not touching it) and "very very slowly" turn the wheel. If the wheel hits the indicator, loosen the spokes on the same side of the indicator " A VERY LITTLE" and tighten the spokes on the side opposite " A VERY LITTLE" - LITTLE TURNS!!!
Turn groups of spokes when you turn. If the wheel has to move left, loosen two right spokes and tighten three left spokes... LITTLE TURNS!!!

Keep checking up/down, and keep moving the side indicator closer and closer until you are a very close... (you're doing the wheel, you decide when you have had enough... I get it to within .008")

REMEMBER: if you tighten the spokes on the bottom, the spokes on the top will tighten... It loosen the spokes on the bottom, the spokes on the top will loosen. If you loosen the spokes on the left side of the rim, the spokes on the right side of the rim will loosen.

Once you get it where you want it, start at spoke one and check every third spoke. (VERY LITTLE TURNS!!!) (everyone says do this for 3 turns and all the spokes will be tight... -they are wrong, you will end up tightening the same 12 spokes 3 times) After your first twelve spokes, you will be back on the spoke you started on, now move to spoke #2 and tighten that one and every third one. When you get to spoke 2, move to spoke 3 and repeat until all spokes are tight then finish up with the spoke torque wrench and "VOILA" you did it!!!

If you put the wheel right back on the bike, check the spokes after the first 20 minutes, then again at the end of your ride. The second time you take the bike out, check the spokes at the end of your ride and then normal maintainance....

If you don't put the wheel right back on... check it in a few days. Some spokes may have loosened from the rim "relaxing".
Hope this helps


If anyone has any questions, Please ask or call 908-727-0751
Jeff

P.S. Or you could let me do it for you... :laugh: