I bet this has been asked before but I couldn't find what I wanted on my searches. I have a 2001 CR125, and I last changed my transmission oil May 16th. I don't race and I've probably but maybe 4 hours on it since then. I'm not totally ready for a change, but after the next one or two rides probably. For my first change, I followed the service manual's advice, it said use Honda HP Transmission oil or Honda GN-4 10w-40 and I had a quart of GN-4 from my XR, so I used it. Used 600cc like I should have and all that. Since then the bike has been perfect, as it was before, but I mean to say that there have been no slips or misshifts from using automotive type oil. The service manual also says or an equivalent weight oil, so I'm wondering what to buy for the next one. I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it to the nearest Honda dealer right away, but I can easily make it to another shop to get Bel-Ray or something. But yesterday when I was there, I was only seeing like 80 weight or 90 weight gear oil. I even have a bottle of Tradco or something 90 weight Gear lube, I used that in my Foreman I think and it was good. Basically I want to know what's better, a 10w-40 weight automotive oil or a heavier (I'm assuming 90 weight is heavier but I don't know) transmission oil. The book does not specify to use one of those types of oils. I just want to know the best thing to get to keep the transmission and clutch smooth and and right.
Tranny Oils? What to Use?
- Thread starter jaypro55
- Start date
- Nov 13, 2001
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The vilocity of 10w-30 oil is equavilent to 80w gear oil. I use Bel-Ray Gear Saver 75W in my CR and haven't had no missshift or clutch problems since. I also felt I was able to get alot of hours out of the Bel-Ray gear oil appose to using conventional 10w-30,40 type (I get close to 20hrs on 1000ml of gear saver in my motor before it turns dark purple. It is basically up to you on what you want to run. My personal preference will be to run Bel-Ray gear saver in EVERY 2-stroke I own.
Good reply Mark,
On bigger bikes like the 250, I was using Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80wt for the last 3 years, but with all the great reviews, I switched to Mobil-1 15w50 RED CAP synthetic oil (Walmart 4.29 a quart) and its works just as good or even better than the Gear Saver. I have ridden my KTM250exc now on three rides and the shifting and everything else feels the same.
On bigger bikes like the 250, I was using Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80wt for the last 3 years, but with all the great reviews, I switched to Mobil-1 15w50 RED CAP synthetic oil (Walmart 4.29 a quart) and its works just as good or even better than the Gear Saver. I have ridden my KTM250exc now on three rides and the shifting and everything else feels the same.
- Nov 13, 2001
- 1,178
- 0
Rick is it good to run a 15w-50 synthetic oil in a 125 (also 2-stroke)? I always thought 15w-50 was for the thumpers...
SAY WHAT? :)
Yes you can run Mobil 1 15W50 (API SJ ) in a 125 gearbox. My 2001 CR125 and my RM150 lived on a steady diet of it. One thing to keep in mind though. Mobil 1 has a new formula called Super Syn for the 15w50 and their other oils. The 15w50 has also been upgraded to the API SL classification. I have not personally tested it in a wet clutch gearbox so I can't say for sure if there are any clutch issues due to the changes in the formulation.
- Nov 13, 2001
- 1,178
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Rich I just noticed Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on the shelf in my local auto parts store (black bottle), is this the oil your talkin about?
- Nov 13, 2001
- 1,178
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Oh BTW I ment to say "10w-30 conventional oil is equivalent to 80w gear oil." Sound right eh? :confused:
Mobil 1 motorcycle oil is safe period. The Mobil 1 15w50 SJ rated RED cap oil that is commonly referenced out here is an automotive oil. It's usually easier to find and about half the price of the motorcycle specific oils.
BTW vilocity isn't a word :)
BTW vilocity isn't a word :)
Did you actually read what I posted? :silly:
I'll try typing it slower this time so those of you who are sniffing glue or watching Jerry Springer can keep up. :eek:
The automotive 15w50 marked as SuperSyn with the SL rating has been changed and I don't have enough info to know whether or not it will cause problems. The earlier SJ rated Mobil 1 automotive version had no issues in a gearbox.
ALL the Mobil 1 motorcycle specific oils are safe to use but some of them have higher viscosity ratings then you'll need for a two stroke gearbox.
Bill Hibbs
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 25, 1999
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Dumonde Tech Sythetic gear lube. Works Great!! Check it out at www.hgnr.com Their two stroke oil and chain lube is also very good. Their Bicycle chain lube is the absolute BEST!
For what its worth, I have been doing some checking on these 100% synthetic cycle-specific oils. I am not, and never will be any kind of an oil expert, but from what I can tell, it appears that Maxima, Motul, and Redline all make certain oils that are formulated from "polyolester or POE" basestocks while most of the other good synthetics are formulated from PAO (polyalphaolephin) base stocks.
From what I've read, the POE based oils offer the best lubrication qualities, while the PAO based oils, while still extremely good, are not as good as the POE oils. Esters (POE's) have more thermal and oxidative stability and reduced friction. They also have polar ends which chemically adhere to metal surfaces for additional film strength and load carrying capability. Their drawback is higher cost.
From what I've read, the Mobil1 products are PAO based. This does not in any way make them any less than excellent products, plus I think they are lower cost (depending on the product) and somewhat easier to find.
I use the 20w50 cycle-specific Mobil1 V-Twin 4-stroke oil in my (2-stroke 2000 KTM 250EXC) clutch/transmission, although I have now noticed that the Mobil1 cycle-specific 4-stroke oils are about the same (high) price as the ester (POE) based cycle-specific 4-stroke oils so I may switch to one of those or, more likely, go with a lower priced, non-synthetic clutch/trans specific oil since I've learned it's wise to change the clutch/trans oil very frequently due to the clutch wear particles which tend to act something like sandpaper on the rest of the trans components. The 4-stroke guys have an oil filter workin for 'em, but, as you know, the 2-stroker's clutch/trans doesn't have an oil filter.
I have also seen a few on the boards mention using the Mobil1 15w50 red cap car oil in their 2-stroke's clutch/trans. From what I've read, (remember, I am not an oil expert) this oil is OK to use with a wet clutch as long as the oil is not marked "Energy Conserving". I believe the 5w30 and 10w30 oils are marked "Energy Conserving", while the 0w40 and 15w50 oils are not marked this way. The "Energy Conserving" oils reportedly have some sort of additional friction modifiers in them which makes them not too great to use with a wet clutch and may cause it to slip.
I have also read that the cycle-specific oils have additive packages specifically designed for wet clutches and have higher levels of zinc and phosphorous in them than the car oils - zinc and phosporous are good anti-wear/extreme pressure additives helpful in preventing metal-to-metal contact and therefore wear. The car oils have lower levels of zinc and phosphorous because they must be compatible with catalytic converters. My non-expert opinion is that the car oils are not as good as using a cycle-specific oil but they are lower cost.
Heck, I always used to run plain old Castrol 20w50 GTX in all my old bikes' clutch/trans and my Kawasaki SR650 street bike and never had a transmission problem or clutch slippage in any of 'em. I guess one viewpoint is: "if your clutch slips, it may be time to try another oil, but if it don't, probably not worth worrying about". The other viewpoint (which I would guess a lot of us fall into) is : "This bike is my baby, so I'm going to put the best of everything in it." Most of us, due to budget, need to find a common sense compromise between the two extremes.
From what I've read, the POE based oils offer the best lubrication qualities, while the PAO based oils, while still extremely good, are not as good as the POE oils. Esters (POE's) have more thermal and oxidative stability and reduced friction. They also have polar ends which chemically adhere to metal surfaces for additional film strength and load carrying capability. Their drawback is higher cost.
From what I've read, the Mobil1 products are PAO based. This does not in any way make them any less than excellent products, plus I think they are lower cost (depending on the product) and somewhat easier to find.
I use the 20w50 cycle-specific Mobil1 V-Twin 4-stroke oil in my (2-stroke 2000 KTM 250EXC) clutch/transmission, although I have now noticed that the Mobil1 cycle-specific 4-stroke oils are about the same (high) price as the ester (POE) based cycle-specific 4-stroke oils so I may switch to one of those or, more likely, go with a lower priced, non-synthetic clutch/trans specific oil since I've learned it's wise to change the clutch/trans oil very frequently due to the clutch wear particles which tend to act something like sandpaper on the rest of the trans components. The 4-stroke guys have an oil filter workin for 'em, but, as you know, the 2-stroker's clutch/trans doesn't have an oil filter.
I have also seen a few on the boards mention using the Mobil1 15w50 red cap car oil in their 2-stroke's clutch/trans. From what I've read, (remember, I am not an oil expert) this oil is OK to use with a wet clutch as long as the oil is not marked "Energy Conserving". I believe the 5w30 and 10w30 oils are marked "Energy Conserving", while the 0w40 and 15w50 oils are not marked this way. The "Energy Conserving" oils reportedly have some sort of additional friction modifiers in them which makes them not too great to use with a wet clutch and may cause it to slip.
I have also read that the cycle-specific oils have additive packages specifically designed for wet clutches and have higher levels of zinc and phosphorous in them than the car oils - zinc and phosporous are good anti-wear/extreme pressure additives helpful in preventing metal-to-metal contact and therefore wear. The car oils have lower levels of zinc and phosphorous because they must be compatible with catalytic converters. My non-expert opinion is that the car oils are not as good as using a cycle-specific oil but they are lower cost.
Heck, I always used to run plain old Castrol 20w50 GTX in all my old bikes' clutch/trans and my Kawasaki SR650 street bike and never had a transmission problem or clutch slippage in any of 'em. I guess one viewpoint is: "if your clutch slips, it may be time to try another oil, but if it don't, probably not worth worrying about". The other viewpoint (which I would guess a lot of us fall into) is : "This bike is my baby, so I'm going to put the best of everything in it." Most of us, due to budget, need to find a common sense compromise between the two extremes.
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- Thread starter
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I was out today and picked up 2 quarts of Mobil1 Red Cap 15w 50. It's the one with SuperSyn but didn't say anything about energy conserving. I wouldn't have bought those if I had seen the normal kind with the SL rating Rich was talking about. Of all places, I then found bottles of that at Ames. I bought two quarts because at about 600cc's every change, two bottles will make three changes. What really sucks is that I have 400cc of Honda GN-4 and I have no clue what to do with it. I don't want to mix it with anything else but what good is it.
- Nov 13, 2001
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Hey Jay that GN4 would be good to pour in the ol' lawnmower or pour it in your trucks gas tank. :confused:
I used the Mobil 1 15W-50, both old and new, in my 02 CR250. I couldn't discern any difference in either one. However, I did feel that the shifting was somewhat notchy. Then I tried some cheap Shell Type F ATF because it was about $1.40 a bottle, and it shifted as smooth as butter. I change the oil every 1-2 hours (paranoia insurance) so I'm gonna stick with this stuff if everything continues to check out clean when I change it.
- Oct 20, 2000
- 2,969
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I know, here comes this thread again :flame: :flame:
Rich, have you had any experience with this "new fangled" API SL stuff yet?
I'm kind of partial to my Quaker State oil for my truck, I've been using 10W-40 in it and my RV's for years, what is your opinion on this stuff in my KTM 125? It'd be nice and convenient to use the same oil in all my toys.
My concerns about the newer SL oils appear to be completely unfounded.
Here's some info on SL oils written by Allan Perry, Technical Specialist for Union 76.
A third goal of API SL/ILSAC GF-3 was to ensure better protection of emissions control system catalysts. This is in response to the EPA mandating extension of emissions system warranty coverage from 50,000 miles to 100,000 miles. Under API SJ/ILSAC GF-2, engine oils were restricted to a maximum of 0.10 wt% phosphorus in order to protect emissions catalysts. Originally, there was a desire to lower the maximum allowable phosphorus content of engine oils to 0.08 wt%. However, this was dropped because of
concerns about engine wear (the source of phosphorus in engine oils is the zinc dithiophosphate antiwear additive) and because a suitable test for measuring protection of emissions systems could not be completed in time. Instead, the automakers opted for
substantially reducing oil volatility limits from 22% maximum (by NOACK) to 15% maximum. Lower volatility means there is less potential for hydrocarbon contamination of emissions catalysts. It also means less oil consumption due to lower evaporative losses. In order to meet these stricter volatility limits, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 oils require the use of
higher quality base oils, especially for the lighter (and preferred) viscosity grades. SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 oils cannot be formulated with 100% Group I base oils because they will not meet the volatility limits; they require high percentages of Group II or Group II+ quality base oils. Depending on the basestock source, some Group II/Group I mixtures may qualify, while other formulations may require some Group III or Group IV base oil.
As for the Quaker State oil you mentioned Jeff, I have no idea. I've never used Quaker Stater oil in anything, car bike or even lawnmower so your guess is as good as mine on how well it will perform. ;) Try it out and let us know.
I have used mobil 1 15/50 since 98, since they dropped the phosphorous and zinc levels I have been using the mx4t. I am getting a little tired paying 7.00 for the mx4t... I had a look at the delvac 1300 super 15/40 for big trucks and heavy equiptment. I have been using it my last 2 outings and it is a great performer just as good as the mx4t. I will bet the delvac has a better additive package than most motorcycle specific oils in the shops. I am very pleased with the performing results of this oil, I never go to walmart,but the delvac sells for 5.88 a gallon so yes I will be a walmart shopper.
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