sjmaster said:Ok...I know this has been beat to death, and I did look over past postings and could not find an answer to this: I drained the gear oil out (that was probably causing the clutch drag when cold) and was going to try automatic transmission fluid. I got Mobile 1 synthetic ATF fluid. I hear alot of guys are buying type F, which is apparently for older vehicles....do you have to use type F for some reason??. Are there any gears in an automatic?? I did not think so...well maybe the pump. Will ATF provide enough film strength to protect transmission gears.? I never thought when I purchased this bike my biggest issue would be tranny fluid :yikes:
Just what friction modifiers would those be?shadow171 said:Stay away from anything with friction modifiers because of the clutch. :cool:
Jaybird said:The thickness of an oil is not always idicative of how well it can protect.
You could have a 60wt motor oil that makes a fine fluid film, but the instant that fluid film is compromised there must be a quality mixture of barrier additives to take over. If that 60wt oil dos not have a robust additive package, the wear will occur no matter how thick the fluid remained.
No matter how hard an "impact" is, the fluid film has always been comprinised if damage occured from that impact. If the fluid film could stop it, there would be no damage, but it can't...no matter how "thick".
Film strength is the key. And film strength must take into account the total package and not simply one aspect, such as viscosity.
Now you could have a 60wt that was chock full of additives, and may well be a good protector, but there are also things like corrosion protection, foaming, heat/oxidation resistance, etc..that also must be considered. Not to mention that it is a fact that the thicker the fluid, the less energy your dyno will see. If you are racing at the top level this could well be of great importance.
I find that TypeF ATF provides me with all that is really needed for the 2T box. It has additives to take care of the harsh meetings, it remains constant throughout the heat range unlike most most engine oils that can have big swings in viscosity(no need to change grades for Summer and Winter), very compatible with seals, and it fights degredation from heat and oxidation probably better than most all engine oils including the full synthetics. Not to mention its price.
Clutch baskets and shifter forks take lots of abuse. They are pretty much considered consumables.
And yes, perhaps a thicker fluid with a good additive package would allow them to remain alive a bit longer, but how much longer? And at what expense?
If we saw lots of gear failures from such a fluid, I would be the first to say stay away, but we don't.
Sure there is probably a better fluid to use other than ATF, but so often folks who do chose to buy the high-dollar boutique oils for $10-12 a qt. fail to change it out as often as they should. And no matter what fluid is used in a 2t wetclutch, the contamination that collects needs to be changed out fast.
I would be willing to bet good money that if I change out 10 times using $1 ATF, and another guy buys $12 Motorex and changes out 5 times, all other things being equal, my parts wiill mic out better. And I have money for a new rear tire as well. Or at least half of a ring chain. :)
chillrich said:I used ATF(F) in my YZ250 for a year or two, It shifted really nice and clutch wear seemed minimal. When I started landing jumps with the gas on I took out 3rd and 4th gears. Now the $9 a litre for Motul gear oil seems minor compared to the $800 repair bill. It doesn't shift as nice as the ATF though. I have considered trying a mix of the two but don't want to risk a repair bill again.
Jaybird said:I just changed the ATF in my 125sx that had about 6 total hours run time on it. Very few particles on the magnet, and the fluid was still red with a slight bit of metalic glisten.
On the back of a bottle of oil should be a circular SAE stamp. On this stamp will be the stats of the oil. Most car motor oil has fricton modifiers, which people are generally told by bike manufacturers to not use in their gearboxes. The way to tell if the oil doesn't have friction modifiers would be to look on the circular SAE stamp, and there should be no writing above or below the SAE in the middle, if I remember correctly. I just buy my Yamalube that says right on the bottle "No friction modifiers". I guess the only reason I could see manufacturers say to not use oil with friction modifiers is because there's something in there that's rough on the clutch, but it's probably not too bad.Jaybird said:Just what friction modifiers would those be?
And just what do they have to do with the clutch?
ComradeMikhail said:On the back of a bottle of oil should be a circular SAE stamp. On this stamp will be the stats of the oil. Most car motor oil has fricton modifiers, which people are generally told by bike manufacturers to not use in their gearboxes. The way to tell if the oil doesn't have friction modifiers would be to look on the circular SAE stamp, and there should be no writing above or below the SAE in the middle, if I remember correctly. I just buy my Yamalube that says right on the bottle "No friction modifiers". I guess the only reason I could see manufacturers say to not use oil with friction modifiers is because there's something in there that's rough on the clutch, but it's probably not too bad.
It has everything to do with the clutch. You don't want friction on your clutch. Friction=heat. Heat on a clutch=broken disks and other damages. I don't imagine using oil with friction modifiers would hurt much at all, nor would using ATF I'd think. Really, just use what you prefer or works best for you. I use Yamalube in all my bikes.
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