Unsprung weight / Best wheels out there

[Hakkapeliitta]

Ok, I tried starting a topic about these in another forum with not so much success.

So basically I am wondering why has there been no great improvement for the wheels in the weight, stiffness and rolling characteristics department for last.. What 20-30 years? The Unsprung weight has a huge effect on driving experience so I believe this deserves it’s own topic.

I would say all the OEM wheels are basically the same with cast aluminium hubs, galvanized spokes and aluminium rims from the cheapest possible aluminium. These wheels are commonly trued using spoke pattern where one spoke crosses only one other spoke (2-cross). This has been made so because it is easier to assemble in a machine and also to save on material as you don’t need so long spokes.

There are of course exceptions but you get the idea. There are improvements made to these bikes every year, so why not for wheels as they can effect pretty much the riding experience.

I would like to dedicate this Topic for gathering experiences on your wheels, what is out there and what really works. I want to talk physics, weights, durability, prices, outlook etc. I want to learn what are you riding and what do you think of it. I would really like to compare experiences on different brands and how they compare against each other.

As English is not my native tongue, I want to apologize as there definitely will be writing errors and misunderstandings.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

There are of course exceptions but you get the idea. There are improvements made to these bikes every year, so why not for wheels as they can effect pretty much the riding experience.

There have been huge improvements in wheels for road bikes and Supermoto bikes over the last 5 years or so, but they come at an exorbitant cost ($2500 US for a set of Marchesini forged aluminum wheels).

MX wheels haven't changed much because there isn't anything inherently wrong with them. OEM wheels and hubs on modern MX bikes are much lighter and made with better materials than they were 10 years ago. They strike an excellent balance between weight, cost and most important, durability.

While it is certainly possible to improve on any design, doing it in a way that advances the product without pricing it out of reach of the intended buyer is a much tougher proposition.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

MX wheels haven't changed much because there isn't anything inherently wrong with them. OEM wheels and hubs on modern MX bikes are much lighter and made with better materials than they were 10 years ago. They strike an excellent balance between weight, cost and most important, durability.

While it is certainly possible to improve on any design, doing it in a way that advances the product without pricing it out of reach of the intended buyer is a much tougher proposition.

Yes I see your point, I was asking comments on what you have tested, there are few different rim(Excel, DID, Alpina) and hub (Talon, Alpinam Haan) manufacturers which have some interesting ideas.

Alpina from Italy has a tubeless rim which is made out of carbon, Basically this rim has aluminium inside but it is lighter then normal rims and it is also tubeless.

We are about to test these rims in enduro use (21 and 18" rims) with Talon carbon hubs and Titanium hybrid spokes to make the lightest wheel possible. I have a picture of these but I don't know how to post linkg here?

Currently we have assembled wheels with D.I.D dirtstar rims, Talon Carbon hubs and with these prototype titanium spokes. So far these have been the best combination yet. I could give weights if someone is interested?

 

[helio lucas]

while they look very cool, i´m not sure about riding a carbon wheel on dirt. i usually could live with 200g more on one wheel, but not with a cracked\snapped one if it hits a rock.

the wheight on wheels are very usefull on mx and sx setups. while added weight affects the suspension in a negative way, i would like to see someone lift the front, or make a whip while tires are not touching the ground on a jump with much lighter\less inertia wheels.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Well we are about to test these wheels hopefully soon, I know the Talon carbon hubs are good since our riders have used these for couple of years with no problems.

Here's some info on Talon / Alpina wheels before assembling the Titanium spokes.

I was not too impressed with the weight of the rims, the weight of a front wheel 21" x 1,60 (with hub and spacers) is 3311,4 g ( 7.300387 pounds)

and for the rear 18 x 2,15 it was 3767,7g. (8.306357 pounds) No rimlocks, discs, bolts or sprockets were used for measuring these weights.

Of course there will be more weight gain when we put the tyres on as these are tubeless, with Titanium spokes we will lose somewhere around 1,5 - 2 pounds I believe.

Anyone have time or interest to compare to your own wheels?

 

[wawaron]

Hi!
What about these experimtal Hybrid Titanium spokes??? Can you say more about that??? Do they fit a Haan hub? :coocoo:

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Hi!
What about these experimtal Hybrid Titanium spokes??? Can you say more about that??? Do they fit a Haan hub? :coocoo:

Hello, actually we build these ourselves so yes these are possible to make for Haan hubs as well. We are still running tests with these on several European race teams.

I've seen Haan hubs several times but never really ride with those or measured their weight. Can you tell me how you like those compared to OEM hubs or Talon hubs?

 

[wawaron]

Hi!
Haan wheels got a very good reputation, their renforced spokes too. I plan to buy a pair a wheels soon, maybe that ones? I will be curious to know the conclusion of your test when you finish it.
Thank for reply

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Hi!
Haan wheels got a very good reputation, their renforced spokes too. I plan to buy a pair a wheels soon, maybe that ones? I will be curious to know the conclusion of your test when you finish it.
Thank for reply

Good morning! I've seen few Haan hubs and they seem to be light, If you have a chance, please measure the weights and tell me how those handle?

I believe the spokes in Haan-Wheels are from Carbon steel (Galvanized) which is strange in my opinnion. The hubs and the rims are expensive so they are saving few bucks by making cheap spokes, I prefer stainless steel. Can you confirm?


About Alpina rims, there were problems with the rim drillings and now we are waiting for new rims or hubs.

 

[wawaron]

unspreight weigth

Hi Man
this is my front wheel from husaberg 2009 FE 450 It's a "dirt star" and weigth 3858g with its spacer (2) disk guard and bolts
Merry X mas