Using the clutch when shifting?
- Thread starter Thor
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matt-itude
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- Jul 6, 2004
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every engine has a power band it is just how abruptly the engine comes into that rpm range(the power curve). you could use a clutch the same way on a four stroke there is just usually less need to do so.
xr250r1922
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- Aug 24, 2004
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are you sure about that? i thought 4 strokes didnt have power bands... i have no idea though i was told that by the guy i bought my bike from.
matt-itude
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- Jul 6, 2004
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let me clarify my above statement when i said, its just how abruptly they enter the "fat" of there power, i meant that is where the misconception of four strokes not having a power band comes from. also the idea such as some of my friends had that a power band was something installed on the bike. if that was the case we would have fitted those "power bands" onto almost everything with an engine by now. like the ridding lawn mower, oh yeah!
Gomer, I find your last post on this subject very interesting, I find myself to be much faster in the trails since I stopped using the clutch when braking, I found the backend stays under control much better without the clutch, I usually clutch it just a little right about in the middle of the turn, works well for me especially on a down hill, I guess it must be riding style, I dunno though......... hmmmm
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,788
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Oh, so *now* you're going to complain?!?jboomer said:
Dad...It might be that you're carrying more speed through the turns because the motor isn't slowing you as much as the brakes could when used hard.
My comments about pulling the clutch and only using the brakes to slow down is really for MX. If/when I do go in the woods, I try to be smoother and not wear myself out, so I am more likely to coast into a turn just relying on engine braking.
I think Gomer is saying that there is a time and place for both techniques. When I got my first 4 stroke, an 01 YZ 426, there were times when engine braking and clutchless shifting worked great. However, there were often circumstances (usually when cornering in limited traction) where the engine braking was so strong that the back end would swap out violently if I chopped the throttle or downshifted. In these circumstances, using the clutch to smoothen out a downshift is more predictable. Sometimes, you can feather the clutch decelerating just like you do accelerating to smoothen out the engine braking.
Unlike DRZ Dad, I find I can maintain more speed in fast braking bumps by using the clutch to downshift. When I'm hard on the back brake and the tail end is dancing like P Diddy on RedBull, then downshifting with the clutch is the best way for me to control my line and keep the motor from stalling.
The slower throttle response of a thumper means that the transition from braking to accelerating is shorter when using the clutch than if you use only the throttle to go from engine braking to accelerating.
Unlike DRZ Dad, I find I can maintain more speed in fast braking bumps by using the clutch to downshift. When I'm hard on the back brake and the tail end is dancing like P Diddy on RedBull, then downshifting with the clutch is the best way for me to control my line and keep the motor from stalling.
The slower throttle response of a thumper means that the transition from braking to accelerating is shorter when using the clutch than if you use only the throttle to go from engine braking to accelerating.
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acold7dusta
Member
- Aug 17, 2004
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yea i always use the clutch. sometimes if im not paying attention ill forget to use it and its very bothersome lol but on downshifting i dont use the clutch as much and i dk if its bad. using the clutch its just automatic for me jusst for shifting gears tho
ya when i had my 83 MX 80 i didnt use the clutch either. cept starting and stopping thats it. one day i tried using the clutch one day.... and i wasnt going too fast and i was shifting from 3rd to 4th and i stalled it about 6" inches away from a fence..... ya so i never used the clutch again. and i cant imagine what it does to the tranny.....but my next bike (hopefully an 04 CRF230F) im gonna start using the clutch.
rossco2304
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- Feb 28, 2005
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i always use the clutch on upshifting......and only sometimes on downshifting.....is this ok? and do u have have any other suggestions dealing w/ shifting
I only use my clutch when I am stopped. After I get the roll going I never touch the clutch again till I need to stop. Of course I am not a motorcrosser by no means. I have a WR250, KTX 250, Kawasaki Voyager, and an '06 Kenworth W9. All of those have clutches and none of them are used unless I am stopped :) Catch you all later and ride hard.
I personally use the clutch quite a bit. I do like SpeedyManiac said and "power shift". I don't lift off the gas, and hit the clutch just enough to take some load off while grabbing the next gear. In races I find myself shifting without the clutch quite a bit, but usually its because I have such horrible arm pump that I couldn't pull in the clutch if I wanted to!
I forced myself to start slipping a little clutch when shifting after a little tranny breaking experience. I never used the clutch when shifting my YZ125. Grabbed 3rd while wide open coming up a 40-45 foot double, a loud snap and some horrible grinding sounds were heard, and I left the ground wide open in a newly found neutral gear. NOT FUN. I don't know if the breakage from from clutchless shifting, but I know it couldn't have helped it any. Figured I'd be a little nicer to my toys after that.
I forced myself to start slipping a little clutch when shifting after a little tranny breaking experience. I never used the clutch when shifting my YZ125. Grabbed 3rd while wide open coming up a 40-45 foot double, a loud snap and some horrible grinding sounds were heard, and I left the ground wide open in a newly found neutral gear. NOT FUN. I don't know if the breakage from from clutchless shifting, but I know it couldn't have helped it any. Figured I'd be a little nicer to my toys after that.
but using the clutch when shifting , especially for 2 strokes givz you instant power when coming out of a turn right guyz?? my bike is not for motocross..itz a kawasaki KMX 125 dual purpose bike but was being cutomizd for motocros racing..here in the philippines,lot of motocrossers here did that.. think d gear box of this bike not that bulletproof isnt it guyz??does that mean i should be using the clutch everytime i shift??
robwbright
Member
- Apr 8, 2005
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My .02 worth:
I've always used the clutch until recently. After reading some posts here and talking to my father-in-law, I stopped.
He has raced karts for 40+ years and also modified race cars.
He has worked 25+ years as a transmission mechanic - owns his own shop.
Once he gets moving he NEVER uses the clutch on his CR 125 kart. He stated that you will just wear the clutch out using it all the time :) .
So, I'm trying to break my addiction . . .
Rob
I've always used the clutch until recently. After reading some posts here and talking to my father-in-law, I stopped.
He has raced karts for 40+ years and also modified race cars.
He has worked 25+ years as a transmission mechanic - owns his own shop.
Once he gets moving he NEVER uses the clutch on his CR 125 kart. He stated that you will just wear the clutch out using it all the time :) .
So, I'm trying to break my addiction . . .
Rob
So whats the technique then?
So it looks like shifting without using the clutch is ok?
If so, then what is the specific technique for shifting then? Do I throttle....then let off a little....dry shift....then throttle again?
Dry shifting just seems like it would be too hard on the transmission to me.
So it looks like shifting without using the clutch is ok?
If so, then what is the specific technique for shifting then? Do I throttle....then let off a little....dry shift....then throttle again?
Dry shifting just seems like it would be too hard on the transmission to me.
- Aug 3, 2004
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Dry shifting? What do you mean by that? The techinque you described is how it is done.
Here's what I do when I'm racing. The only time that I use the clutch to shift is when I'm under power. The throttle stays pinned, I pull up on the shift lever at the same time I tap the clutch. This is powershifting. It takes less time shifting like this than it does to cut the throttle, shift, and turn it back on. Even if it didn't, the powershift method makes sure that it stays on the pipe. Ask any good car dragracer how he shifts a manual transmission on the track.
ShifterKarts don't use the clutch when shifting, and I would bet that the sticky tires and pavement put a lot more stress on the gearbox than MX'ing does.
Here's what I do when I'm racing. The only time that I use the clutch to shift is when I'm under power. The throttle stays pinned, I pull up on the shift lever at the same time I tap the clutch. This is powershifting. It takes less time shifting like this than it does to cut the throttle, shift, and turn it back on. Even if it didn't, the powershift method makes sure that it stays on the pipe. Ask any good car dragracer how he shifts a manual transmission on the track.
ShifterKarts don't use the clutch when shifting, and I would bet that the sticky tires and pavement put a lot more stress on the gearbox than MX'ing does.
littlenasty
Member
- Sep 28, 2005
- 69
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i always use the clutch but i dont overuse it like cycleboys says, and i like the brooooAAAAAooooooAAAoooooooo
- Aug 3, 2004
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That's funny how that works isin't it. I'll do a search on here for something or another and come across an old post from '01. We never even saw it coming...
Jim98KX250kid
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- Dec 14, 2005
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HOLEY MOLEY :yikes:
i have never once in my life clutched up the gears on my kx i let of the gas a little wen i click up but using the clucth up the gears on a crosser will fry your clutch plates(and i kno tht from experience) on enduroe bikes they are designed to use the cluth up or down on crossers the only time u shul even need to think about a clucth is wen ur hitting a tight turn or down shifting. banging down with no clucth will 100% do damage to the bike
well just think if u have the throtte open and the engine going, all u guys tht clutch up all the gears, u must have to shut the throttle off to pull the cluth in any way.If not and ur using the clcuth with the throttle open ur clearly damaging ur plates. cuz as u pull the clucth in with the thottle open the engine just 4 a second had to work 2wice as fast.Its easyier not to clucth up the gears any way u can keep your whole hands on the bar and have more controll thats wat the gear box's on m'xs is designed 4 :)
so u should defonatly not b cluthcing up the gears(on a crosser) big NO NO
unless u have some spare plates lying about, in that case get ur rachet out cuz clcuthin up they wont live very long :laugh:
i have never once in my life clutched up the gears on my kx i let of the gas a little wen i click up but using the clucth up the gears on a crosser will fry your clutch plates(and i kno tht from experience) on enduroe bikes they are designed to use the cluth up or down on crossers the only time u shul even need to think about a clucth is wen ur hitting a tight turn or down shifting. banging down with no clucth will 100% do damage to the bike
well just think if u have the throtte open and the engine going, all u guys tht clutch up all the gears, u must have to shut the throttle off to pull the cluth in any way.If not and ur using the clcuth with the throttle open ur clearly damaging ur plates. cuz as u pull the clucth in with the thottle open the engine just 4 a second had to work 2wice as fast.Its easyier not to clucth up the gears any way u can keep your whole hands on the bar and have more controll thats wat the gear box's on m'xs is designed 4 :)
so u should defonatly not b cluthcing up the gears(on a crosser) big NO NO
unless u have some spare plates lying about, in that case get ur rachet out cuz clcuthin up they wont live very long :laugh:
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bordrshane
Member
- Dec 13, 2005
- 61
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just pin it
Only use the clutch for starts and to make it over some rhythm sections, and outa turns. Keep it tapped. It will click into gear. Ive never had a problem. I also have never kept a bike for over two years, so there you go.
Only use the clutch for starts and to make it over some rhythm sections, and outa turns. Keep it tapped. It will click into gear. Ive never had a problem. I also have never kept a bike for over two years, so there you go.
- Aug 3, 2004
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Jim98KX250kid said:
No it won't, dirtbike clutches are made to be slipped.
Jim98KX250kid said:
No it won't, that's the way that sequential transmissions work.
Jim98KX250kid said:
Nope, the throttle stays pinned.
Jim98KX250kid said:
If that's what you think. It's easier for me to just keep the throttle pinned, use that one finger that is ALWAYS on the clutch anyway, and slam the next gear. The design of the gearbox has nothing to do with shifting this way. Car drag racers have been shifting with the throttle pinned like this for years.
Jim98KX250kid said:
Clutch plates don't last long on a MX bike anyway.