Wheelie without popping clutch?
- Thread starter KLX_BOY
- Start date
Battered Sav
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- Nov 16, 2000
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Top r/h corner, search, "wheelie" as keyword.
I still cant do'em. :o
good luck.
I still cant do'em. :o
good luck.
- Nov 15, 2001
- 872
- 0
The Hardest part is finding the "sweet spot" in the power band. To find it, just try to do wheelies at different rpm's in the gear, you will eventually find out where it is. Your other problem might be that your bike may not have enough torque in one area to get the wheel off the ground.
Before i say anything, read this. Always keep your foot over the back brake when attempting any decent wheelie. this is your last resort if you are about to flip over, and will save you from almost ALL flips, even if your bike is verticle to the ground.
First up do a search like Sav said, as i'm sure i have had something to say about this before. i'll do a quick summary.
your bike is going to be hard to work with if standard. not only is it a bit underpowered and heavy, it lacks the throttle response of a pumper carb. But this doesn't mean it can't be done, as i have had good luck with my old KLX300. Actually, when i think about it, it's going to be ALOT harder with that CV carb you have there. if you do have a pumper carb, make sure it is jetted right. running nice and lean on the needle will provide good, crisp throttle response. even one clip position will make a difference in throttle response.
there are four different types of wheelies i believe.
the first is power wheelies that are easy to do, because the wheel isn't very far off the ground, but these don't last too long. super easy on a powerful bike, just lean back a bit and wind it on.
the next is balance point wheelies which are harder to do, because you are much higher up. this is where the confidence issue arises because one needs to learn how far up is actually the balance point. depending on where you sit, this can be very far up. when i wheelie on the seat, i need to move my head to the left to see the road. looking straight ahead reveals nothing but the sky and a shiny blue fender! you will know when you are at the balance point because you will not need to apply much throttle to keep it up there, just minute amounts to keep it balanced. this is where your CV will let you down, at this fine adjustment time.
i usally start off in second or third gear, and always use the clutch to pop the wheel. i also like to move to the back of the seat, and this may assist you greatly on your bike. if you do use the clutch (and i highly recommend it), be careful that you don't flip it at this point. the front wheel can rise quickly. the futher back you are on the seat, the faster the front wheel will rise, so watch out.
so if you do manage to get the wheel at the right height, then you are probaly getting pretty scared at this stage. that's normal, so let the bike go down again. do this as much as you can, so you become comfortable with the wheel high in the air. take as much time as you need, because it is hard to make a good come back after a flip. experience is needed.
when you do feel comfortable with the wheel in the air, try keeping it there with the use of the throttle. with practice, you will find that only small amounts are needed to keep things in balance. when this happens, well done! practice as much as you can.
when you feel comfortable with this, sooner or later you will need to find another gear. this may seem daunting at first, but once you grab the next gear, you will find how easy it is to do. the bike won't try to throw you off or anything bad like that. in fact, the higher the gear you are in, the easier it is to make fine throttle adjustments. when you are in first gear, all throttle movements are magnified a great deal. it is quite hard to make a decent wheelie out of first gear, but you can make use of it. thats the last type of wheelie.
back to the issue of gear changing. you may wonder why you need to change gears when you are at 'balance point'. well, in theory you don't because you are neither accelerating or slowing down. but, because it is quite difficuld to keep the balance point, you will find that your wheel may drop by a small amount. when this happens, you need to accellerate to pick it up again. do this a few times (it may only be a small amount) and you will be at the end of that gear. no worries, you have another 3 left in the box! i like to use the clutch when changing gears while in the air, and if you are at balance point when you grab the next cog, your wheel won't drop. timing is important here.
the third wheelie is the same as above, only you are standing on the pegs rather than on the seat. same deal applies as above, but wheelies on the pegs have a draw back. you need to lean back a fair bit while standing, and some people have a tendency to roll on the gas when leaning back. this makes it easy to flip the machine. the safest way i have found to do these is to grip the bike tightly with the knees, and to hold on firmly with the left arm. this leaves the right wrist with enough freedom to adjust the throttle. these wheelies look better i believe, and they serve more of a purpose (describe later). again, they are not easy to do, so practice these as much as you can. it is not uncommon to see a rider who can do wheelies on the pegs with ease, but cannot wheelie on the seat (and vice versa). they do feel different, so practice them both. just like on the seat wheelies, there is a balance point to be found on the pegs. the advantage is you can see where you are going while on the pegs (and miss the cars going the other direction!).
finally, you have the 'nothing but class' stand up wheelie. these are very hard to do, but are an excellent exercise in confidence, clutch/throttle control and rear brake control. i'm sure you have seen them being done, usally by a pro. the bike sits totally verticle, and some really great riders can move forward while in this postioin for some distance. they are usally done in first and second gear, and you need a burst of clutch/throttle to bring the wheel into the air. moving your weight right back on the seat and almost onto the fender helps greatly here. the trick no one else will tell you about them is to use the back brake almost exclusivly. it is a good idea to drag the rear brake right fromt the start, before you even pop the wheel. this will help you control the rising rate of the wheel. this method isn't usally needed for the other two wheelies, because like i said your throttle movements will become magnified in first gear.
stand up wheeiles take an awful amount of confidence and pracitce, but they are great to learn how to do.
So why would i need to learn wheelies? they are just for show, right?
well, most of the time they are for show, but they are great practice for your riding technique. firstly, they are great for your confidence. if you have your wheel thrown up high into the air by a jump, you will find that panic won't set in because you are now comfortable with this position. it gives you time to lock the back wheel and all is good again. secondly, your throttle control will improve because you will develop a fine touch. if you wheelie on the pegs as i have described, you will automatically use the door knob technique on the throttle, which is important to learn. no-one seems to talk about the door knob technique, which is sad because door knob and elbows up go hand in had when cornering. sorry, side tracked again....if you are good at wheelies on the pegs, then you will find crossing logs and ditches very easy. this is why i recommend you learn how to use the clutch when poping the front wheel because this gives instant front wheel lift. it's a great idea to get used to the feeling of a fast rising front wheel. it will help you in the future.
i need to sum up here, and all i can say is practice as much as you can and give yourself heaps of time. it took me a bit over one year of riding to learn how to do a balance point wheelie, and i practiced almost all the time, so don't feel bad if you don't succeed straight away. hope this helps.
First up do a search like Sav said, as i'm sure i have had something to say about this before. i'll do a quick summary.
your bike is going to be hard to work with if standard. not only is it a bit underpowered and heavy, it lacks the throttle response of a pumper carb. But this doesn't mean it can't be done, as i have had good luck with my old KLX300. Actually, when i think about it, it's going to be ALOT harder with that CV carb you have there. if you do have a pumper carb, make sure it is jetted right. running nice and lean on the needle will provide good, crisp throttle response. even one clip position will make a difference in throttle response.
there are four different types of wheelies i believe.
the first is power wheelies that are easy to do, because the wheel isn't very far off the ground, but these don't last too long. super easy on a powerful bike, just lean back a bit and wind it on.
the next is balance point wheelies which are harder to do, because you are much higher up. this is where the confidence issue arises because one needs to learn how far up is actually the balance point. depending on where you sit, this can be very far up. when i wheelie on the seat, i need to move my head to the left to see the road. looking straight ahead reveals nothing but the sky and a shiny blue fender! you will know when you are at the balance point because you will not need to apply much throttle to keep it up there, just minute amounts to keep it balanced. this is where your CV will let you down, at this fine adjustment time.
i usally start off in second or third gear, and always use the clutch to pop the wheel. i also like to move to the back of the seat, and this may assist you greatly on your bike. if you do use the clutch (and i highly recommend it), be careful that you don't flip it at this point. the front wheel can rise quickly. the futher back you are on the seat, the faster the front wheel will rise, so watch out.
so if you do manage to get the wheel at the right height, then you are probaly getting pretty scared at this stage. that's normal, so let the bike go down again. do this as much as you can, so you become comfortable with the wheel high in the air. take as much time as you need, because it is hard to make a good come back after a flip. experience is needed.
when you do feel comfortable with the wheel in the air, try keeping it there with the use of the throttle. with practice, you will find that only small amounts are needed to keep things in balance. when this happens, well done! practice as much as you can.
when you feel comfortable with this, sooner or later you will need to find another gear. this may seem daunting at first, but once you grab the next gear, you will find how easy it is to do. the bike won't try to throw you off or anything bad like that. in fact, the higher the gear you are in, the easier it is to make fine throttle adjustments. when you are in first gear, all throttle movements are magnified a great deal. it is quite hard to make a decent wheelie out of first gear, but you can make use of it. thats the last type of wheelie.
back to the issue of gear changing. you may wonder why you need to change gears when you are at 'balance point'. well, in theory you don't because you are neither accelerating or slowing down. but, because it is quite difficuld to keep the balance point, you will find that your wheel may drop by a small amount. when this happens, you need to accellerate to pick it up again. do this a few times (it may only be a small amount) and you will be at the end of that gear. no worries, you have another 3 left in the box! i like to use the clutch when changing gears while in the air, and if you are at balance point when you grab the next cog, your wheel won't drop. timing is important here.
the third wheelie is the same as above, only you are standing on the pegs rather than on the seat. same deal applies as above, but wheelies on the pegs have a draw back. you need to lean back a fair bit while standing, and some people have a tendency to roll on the gas when leaning back. this makes it easy to flip the machine. the safest way i have found to do these is to grip the bike tightly with the knees, and to hold on firmly with the left arm. this leaves the right wrist with enough freedom to adjust the throttle. these wheelies look better i believe, and they serve more of a purpose (describe later). again, they are not easy to do, so practice these as much as you can. it is not uncommon to see a rider who can do wheelies on the pegs with ease, but cannot wheelie on the seat (and vice versa). they do feel different, so practice them both. just like on the seat wheelies, there is a balance point to be found on the pegs. the advantage is you can see where you are going while on the pegs (and miss the cars going the other direction!).
finally, you have the 'nothing but class' stand up wheelie. these are very hard to do, but are an excellent exercise in confidence, clutch/throttle control and rear brake control. i'm sure you have seen them being done, usally by a pro. the bike sits totally verticle, and some really great riders can move forward while in this postioin for some distance. they are usally done in first and second gear, and you need a burst of clutch/throttle to bring the wheel into the air. moving your weight right back on the seat and almost onto the fender helps greatly here. the trick no one else will tell you about them is to use the back brake almost exclusivly. it is a good idea to drag the rear brake right fromt the start, before you even pop the wheel. this will help you control the rising rate of the wheel. this method isn't usally needed for the other two wheelies, because like i said your throttle movements will become magnified in first gear.
stand up wheeiles take an awful amount of confidence and pracitce, but they are great to learn how to do.
So why would i need to learn wheelies? they are just for show, right?
well, most of the time they are for show, but they are great practice for your riding technique. firstly, they are great for your confidence. if you have your wheel thrown up high into the air by a jump, you will find that panic won't set in because you are now comfortable with this position. it gives you time to lock the back wheel and all is good again. secondly, your throttle control will improve because you will develop a fine touch. if you wheelie on the pegs as i have described, you will automatically use the door knob technique on the throttle, which is important to learn. no-one seems to talk about the door knob technique, which is sad because door knob and elbows up go hand in had when cornering. sorry, side tracked again....if you are good at wheelies on the pegs, then you will find crossing logs and ditches very easy. this is why i recommend you learn how to use the clutch when poping the front wheel because this gives instant front wheel lift. it's a great idea to get used to the feeling of a fast rising front wheel. it will help you in the future.
i need to sum up here, and all i can say is practice as much as you can and give yourself heaps of time. it took me a bit over one year of riding to learn how to do a balance point wheelie, and i practiced almost all the time, so don't feel bad if you don't succeed straight away. hope this helps.
- Thread starter
- #8
WHEELI..HELP..
Hi everyone i went out yesturday and i practised on my bike and i could not get used to the clutch on a wheelie.
What i did was get into 1st gear, stand up and bounce the front suspension and on the rebound give it throttle and up the front wheel came.
But i had to shut the throttle off because i was going over backwards.
KLX_BOY:scream:
Hi everyone i went out yesturday and i practised on my bike and i could not get used to the clutch on a wheelie.
What i did was get into 1st gear, stand up and bounce the front suspension and on the rebound give it throttle and up the front wheel came.
But i had to shut the throttle off because i was going over backwards.
KLX_BOY:scream:
Boozer,
You forgot the 5th kind of wheelie: the standing on the seat wheelie.
This wheelie is the epitimy of throttle control becuase there's no hope of being able to hit the rear brake.
While most people think these are incredibly hard and some won't even try them, I am strangely much better at these than a normal wheelie.
-Phil
You forgot the 5th kind of wheelie: the standing on the seat wheelie.
This wheelie is the epitimy of throttle control becuase there's no hope of being able to hit the rear brake.
While most people think these are incredibly hard and some won't even try them, I am strangely much better at these than a normal wheelie.
-Phil
phil, now that's just plain silly! if you want to go down that route, you can add the 6th kind. wheelies while sitting on your tank and your legs over the handle bars! i've even seen photos of those road bike maniacs pulling wheelies while standing backwards on the pegs.
bbbom
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 13, 1999
- 2,094
- 0
The KLX is tough to wheelie. I never did get the front end of my KLX300 (pumper carb & all) off the ground, I was getting some short wheelies in on my CR500 before the snow arrived. Now if the snow melts I get to work on the balance point issue.
Even Karl who wheelies everywhere on his CR500 had to work to get the KLX up and he could only pull it off in 2nd or 3rd gear with pretty good speed.
Even Karl who wheelies everywhere on his CR500 had to work to get the KLX up and he could only pull it off in 2nd or 3rd gear with pretty good speed.
bbbom
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 13, 1999
- 2,094
- 0
Boozer's post was quite informative but for me, a beginner wheelier, a bit over my head so here is what I have been told for the very basics of getting the front tire up:
Karl's technique (as I recall being instructed, since I haven't been on my bike for the past 3 months due to snow and he's at work now) is to get up to a decent speed in 2nd gear, standing on the pegs, give the throttle a quick twist while pulling up on the bars and dropping your butt down on the seat. On the KLX, I think I used to drop the clutch while blipping the throttle when I was trying to get the front end up ( I think I managed to pop it up a couple inches a few times but never could get much lift).
I have found that it is easier to find a long easy incline to practice on. I have a favorite that has a nice bump in it that helps me get my tire up. If no inclines are available flat will work but the incline does help. I managed to ride a wheelie (barely) about 20' on our last ride this fall and it was a rush!
I haven't managed to go over backwards yet and I think that maneuver would really put a damper on my desire to wheelie. I know my brother warned my nephew and I when we were playing on the KLX's (my 300 & his 250) that they like to go over backwards because it takes so much to get them up in the first place.
Another helpful technique if you aren't used to wheelies is to practice on a bicycle. I try to just pop wheelies whenever I can on both the bicycle and the dirtbike just to get more comfortable with the feeling of the wheel being up.
Another reason for learning to wheelie is when riding in tight trees, supposedly you should wheelie through them so your bars don't hit the trees - now the day I do that I WILL have a HUGE celebration!!! ;)
Karl's technique (as I recall being instructed, since I haven't been on my bike for the past 3 months due to snow and he's at work now) is to get up to a decent speed in 2nd gear, standing on the pegs, give the throttle a quick twist while pulling up on the bars and dropping your butt down on the seat. On the KLX, I think I used to drop the clutch while blipping the throttle when I was trying to get the front end up ( I think I managed to pop it up a couple inches a few times but never could get much lift).
I have found that it is easier to find a long easy incline to practice on. I have a favorite that has a nice bump in it that helps me get my tire up. If no inclines are available flat will work but the incline does help. I managed to ride a wheelie (barely) about 20' on our last ride this fall and it was a rush!
I haven't managed to go over backwards yet and I think that maneuver would really put a damper on my desire to wheelie. I know my brother warned my nephew and I when we were playing on the KLX's (my 300 & his 250) that they like to go over backwards because it takes so much to get them up in the first place.
Another helpful technique if you aren't used to wheelies is to practice on a bicycle. I try to just pop wheelies whenever I can on both the bicycle and the dirtbike just to get more comfortable with the feeling of the wheel being up.
Another reason for learning to wheelie is when riding in tight trees, supposedly you should wheelie through them so your bars don't hit the trees - now the day I do that I WILL have a HUGE celebration!!! ;)
NJ-DirtRdr
Member
- May 2, 2001
- 6
- 0
I agree with everything that was said here in the post, but have one thing to add. It seems that the fear of going overbackwards is quite intimidating to most people. I too was pretty scared of it at first, but experience in this department has taught me otherwise. My first time I really got the hang of wheelies I was hot-shotting down a dirt road, got it up in 3rd, and shifted to 4th. I dropped the front wheel, and furiously tried to get it back up again. Defeated, I dropped it into third again, and YANKED on the bars with a good helping of throttle. Yessir, I went backwards--quickly. I slid for a good 20 ft on my rear, all the time trying to take the heat with my chest protector and heels to no avail. In the end, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I broke my rear fender, and could not sit down for a little while. (FYI: I was on military leave at the time and had to report back two days later to break in some new recruits!) My fear of looping has completely gone away. I've done it a few times since, but am now more adept at wheelie-ing because of it. I say this because in my experience, most people who can't do wheelies for any amount of distance are never getting that wheel high enough. Besides, looping builds character. (And the injuries are usually pretty laughable)
--Tim
--Tim
ride_red_15
Uhhh...
- Oct 14, 2001
- 575
- 0
'trick' wheelies are fun, but i think riding a power-wheelie for a couple hundred feet is fun!
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,790
- 34
Speaking of a "character building exercise...
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,790
- 34
That was during the whelie contest at the Suthin SpodeFest '00. We were going to give awards to the longest wheelie and the most spodely wheelie.
Ivan had both locked up at that point! It was 3 times the length of any of the previous runs people had made. He made it about 150' uphill to that point. It started coming up too high and he backed off for a second. When he backed off the front dropped and he gassed it harder....you can see the rest. :)
Ivan had both locked up at that point! It was 3 times the length of any of the previous runs people had made. He made it about 150' uphill to that point. It started coming up too high and he backed off for a second. When he backed off the front dropped and he gassed it harder....you can see the rest. :)
Your bike just might not be up to the task, but this is how I started to figure wheelies out.
I have a older RM, enough power, but not to much on the bottom end where you need it to get the front tire up for more than a half second or so. I never use the clutch, I honestly don't feel like flipping the bike over and this seems like the easiest way TO flip it over. I usually stay in 2nd gear, let the bike slow itself down then get on the gas hard and lean back. I am no pro by any means, I actually probably suck at it pretty good. This past weekend I got the bike up for about 50-60ft until I revved out of 2nd gear. I do also push down on the front suspension, but only when I want to tackle wheelies when standing up. So I guess you might want to try this out...
1. Get into 2nd gear, 1st is to low, 3rd your bike probably doesn't have the err, guts to get you up.
2. After getting into 2nd gear, let off the throttle, this makes the bike slow down and shifts the weight from the back of the bike to the front of the bike.
3. When you figure out your going slow enough, or you found the part in 2nd where the power really comes on, this is the place to get back on the gas!!
4. Do this and also get back on the seat and give the bars a nice yank. It might not work the first or second time, but it will. Also make sure your doing this on a surface where your back tire actually gets grip, if not there's no point in trying this.
5. Once you get the front tire up, keep that back foot over the brake and use the throttle to get the tire up higher and keep the wheelie going. You'll probably get the front tire up, get a little scared then let it back down. I did the same thing, so does everyone else, no one expects you to ride one out your first time.
6. When you get comfortable with the front wheel off the ground, let off the throttle ever so slightly then get back on it. You see this when someone else is doing a wheelie, the front tire goes up a bit then comes down, up a bit. That is was is happening, off the gas tire comes down, on the gas tire comes up. You'll get used to it no worries.
I think thats about it, thats a total amatuer way of looking at it, cause thats the way I figured them out. It also helps if you try this on some kind of incline. With the incline you don't have to shift your weight back as far and makes them a little easier. Good luck and stock up on plastic :)
I have a older RM, enough power, but not to much on the bottom end where you need it to get the front tire up for more than a half second or so. I never use the clutch, I honestly don't feel like flipping the bike over and this seems like the easiest way TO flip it over. I usually stay in 2nd gear, let the bike slow itself down then get on the gas hard and lean back. I am no pro by any means, I actually probably suck at it pretty good. This past weekend I got the bike up for about 50-60ft until I revved out of 2nd gear. I do also push down on the front suspension, but only when I want to tackle wheelies when standing up. So I guess you might want to try this out...
1. Get into 2nd gear, 1st is to low, 3rd your bike probably doesn't have the err, guts to get you up.
2. After getting into 2nd gear, let off the throttle, this makes the bike slow down and shifts the weight from the back of the bike to the front of the bike.
3. When you figure out your going slow enough, or you found the part in 2nd where the power really comes on, this is the place to get back on the gas!!
4. Do this and also get back on the seat and give the bars a nice yank. It might not work the first or second time, but it will. Also make sure your doing this on a surface where your back tire actually gets grip, if not there's no point in trying this.
5. Once you get the front tire up, keep that back foot over the brake and use the throttle to get the tire up higher and keep the wheelie going. You'll probably get the front tire up, get a little scared then let it back down. I did the same thing, so does everyone else, no one expects you to ride one out your first time.
6. When you get comfortable with the front wheel off the ground, let off the throttle ever so slightly then get back on it. You see this when someone else is doing a wheelie, the front tire goes up a bit then comes down, up a bit. That is was is happening, off the gas tire comes down, on the gas tire comes up. You'll get used to it no worries.
I think thats about it, thats a total amatuer way of looking at it, cause thats the way I figured them out. It also helps if you try this on some kind of incline. With the incline you don't have to shift your weight back as far and makes them a little easier. Good luck and stock up on plastic :)
