when a 250cc four stroke has the power and responce of a 250cc 2 stroke

[ropethebike]

I ride 2 strokes, I have nothing against 4 strokes EXCEPT one thing....there too damn LOUD!

I mean wherever your riding some jackass on a 4t nails it and you think a pulling truck or something with 300 hp just jumped on the track...............its really just annoying as hell

I go to ride to relax a little and relieve some stress, yeah I'm old, but everytime I take my helmet off some 4t rider has me throwing a kink in my neck to see whats making that horrible noise and is it going to run over me..............thats why the 4t suck..............in my opinion they just ruin a nice day of riding because they are so loud

thats my thoughts........

 

[rostifer]

I think that the unpopular state of the 2stroke is normal. Bikes are kinda like the economy it rises and falls. Popularity of bikes rise and fall. I remember reading a Dirt Bike magazine and it had an article about this old guys bike that he restored and there only a few made but the point is during that time, fourstrokes were on top in the motocross game. In the 1950's I think. It's kinda sad that the 2s is losing popularity because thats just another thing lost to our sport. Just my 2 cents

 

[P0PWAR]

4 strokes, heavier, less power(unless you buy a cr43598473255x, compared to a cr250. Theirfore making it heavier.) Harder to work on, and they cost more money for parts and such. 2 strokes are the way to go.

 

[uh_oh]

4 strokes, heavier, less power(unless you buy a cr43598473255x, compared to a cr250. Theirfore making it heavier.) Harder to work on, and they cost more money for parts and such. 2 strokes are the way to go.

yeah. if your talking per cc the 250f's are now less than a 250 2t and a 450 is only 7 pounds heavier.
08 YZ250F: 204 lb
08 YZ250: 212 lb
08 YZ450F: 219 lb

 

[ignition retard]

How much does it cost to keep the engine up to spec in one year on a 250f, including clutch,and bottom end? My yz125 costs about $400 this year. Thats 2 piston kits + 1 cylinder re plate, 0 clutches, and 0 bottom ends. I rode twice a week, but took 5 weeks off, mostly track riding. Still using original clutch and crank.

 

[xkevenx]

i give him credit... i rode a four stroke 450 and it broke down i had to sell it couse it was to fregin expensive! it was about 1500 euro's thats a 1700$ or so, i stick with two stroke why?

two stroke----> less moving parts and more power = cheap and good
four stroke----> more moving parts less power but more low end = expensive and less good( its stil good but why pay more to have less?)

 

[Ol'89r]

:ahhh: Waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaa! :coocoo:

Jeeze, what a bunch of crybabies.

The fact of the matter is, we have more choices today than we have ever had. And everyone is still crying.

You can walk into your local dealer and buy a state-of-the-art racing machine. Two or four stroke. Manufactured with aluminum, magnesium, titanium and all the latest trick coatings and technology. Bikes that most people can't even ride to their full potential.

Honda is the only one that has stopped making two strokes, all the rest still make them and KTM is dedicated to continue making two strokes for many years to come.

The class structure is equal now, in fact, if anything it is in favor of the two stroke.

Used two strokes only a couple of years old are very inexpensive to buy and still have all the modern technology of a brand new one. And there are tons of them available.

Aftermarket manufactures will continue to make parts for the two strokes. Even if the OEM's quit making them, parts will be available for your two stroke.

Both two stroke and four strokes have their place in racing. Some work better in certain conditions than the others and visa versa. Pick the one that works best for you.

No one is forcing anyone to ride a four stroke or a two stroke. Granted, under certain racing conditions a four stroke may work better and if you want to be competitive, that's what you will have to ride. Same goes with a two stroke in other disciplines.

It is up to you to determine which is the best weapon for you and the type of riding you do. If you are overwhelmed by the complexity of the four stroke engines then, buy a two stroke. The choices are many, no reason to cry about it. ;)

 

[stumanarama]

actually, after 08 the only ones still making the 250s are yamaha and ktm, suzuki said 08 is their last year and honda and kawi already stopped, it made me sad to pick up the latest 250 shootout magazine article to see only three entries, of which only one was significantly changed from the year before, the ktm i believe. oh well, everyone should be able to ride what they want(although those fours are awful loud) but it sucks to see the two strokes fading out

 

[derek the 2 stroke]

Im seeing alotta stuff about even classes.Is that true?

 

[XRpredator]

Im seeing alotta stuff about even classes.Is that true?

only in amateur

 

[OldTimer]

...I hear more and more people going BACK to 2 strokes, for one reason or another (or several :) )....

I finally broke down and bought a 250X a couple of months ago and I just love the power delivery, suspension, and feel, buuuut....
I'm almost afraid to ride it because of all the terrible things I'm hearing about maintenance costs. Unlike a lot of the posters here, I'm not thrilled about wrenching on my bike. I kinda figured that I was getting a happy medium between an "R" and an "XR", but I hear now that my engine is going to explode within a few hours no matter how I ride or maintain my bike. I wish now that I'd bought KTM 2T if for no other reason than that after 2 years of use, no wants to touch a 4T and I'll never get the resale value that I could get from a 2T. When I do get my next bike, it'll be a 2T for sure!(if anyone still makes them). I'll bet KTM corners the market, trailwise, if they keep up developement on their 2T's. :nod:
Come to think of it... they already have, haven't they? :think:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I kinda figured that I was getting a happy medium between an "R" and an "XR"

You did.

but I hear now that my engine is going to explode within a few hours no matter how I ride or maintain my bike.

It won't.

 

[truespode]

I have had a 2001 YZ250F that everyone said the crank was going to explode. I had a 2003 CRF450 that everyone said the valves were going to go bad with. I had a 2003 YZ250F that I bought used and it did lock up but had the engine completely rebuilt by Rich. Now I have a 2005 YZ250F.

I have not had to put a lot of money into any bike except the 2003 YZ250F but after Rich put it back together it was perfect.

Both my 2001 YZ250F, 2003 CRF450 and 2003 YZ250F are still running strong (from the last time I talked to each of the owners).

If you maintain them properly they will last a long time and be great machines.

The cost of ownership versus a 250 2-smoke is a bit higher due to the parts being higher but then again it costs less to maintain my 1977 DT100 than any other bike I have owned but which bike do you think I'd rather ride?

The cost of ownership on my 4-strokes have not been unreal and with the exception of my last two bikes I did not do the wrenching on my 4-strokes, I paid someone else to do it. Now that I do it myself it is not that bad for a top end cost wise.

I might go back to a 2-stroke one day b/c I like the way they handle in the woods but I am so comfortable on a 4-stroke that I am not sure I can ride a 2-stroke as well anymore.

Ivan

 

[Rice#67]

I was a service writer at a motorcycle shop for a little while and let me give you my view on things... If you want a good race bike, buy a CRF, YZF etc. Smooth power, good traction=fast lap times. Sure... But remember to check those valves, they recommend every 20 hours of hard riding. I have seen them go longer but then again I've seen $1500 topend rebuilds too. Adjusting the valves is about 1.5 hours labor. So your looking at $130 every 20 hours of racing. Unless you learn to do it yourself. I agree if your into racing buy one. But if your trail riding for fun and that's it, buy an XR. These new 4 strokes are not like the old ones. Or if your smart, you'll buy a 2-stroke.

I am a diehard two-stroke rider, and I love how cheap they are and all that... And I also believe that 2-strokes excel in certain areas. But... when a sport is getting as big as this one, the companies are going to throw more money at it. Suzuki is coming out with a fuel injected 450, and I'm sure the rest are to follow. 4-strokes is the introduction of the sport progressing, therefore turning into a richman's hobby. If you look at the superbike world, the bikes have already went to 4-strokes, but that's mostly due to smog regulations. But how many can afford to race streetbikes all the time?

Anyways, what I am basically saying is that the racing sport is progressing, in order for riders to go faster on bikes they up the engine size. In order to do that in motocross and such, the larger displacement must have smooth power. This is why they are using the 4-stroke. The sport is only getting bigger.

I think they should make classes of 2-strokes vs. 2-strokes and 4-strokes vs. 4-strokes. That way we end the discussion of which one is faster and then rider comes into play again.

 

[PlowboysGhost]

Rice#67,

I know where you're coming from when you mention the more tractable power delivery of a four stroke helping lap times, but I submit that a properly built/setup 2-stroke is not really at a disadvantage in that respect when ridden by a great rider. The difference in that circumstance is in the differing ways that the two types of bikes must be ridden. I do feel that 4-strokes are indeed easier to ride, but I don't agree that this 4-stroke trend is one of "progression".

I do personaly know a couple of Pros that have made the switch to thumpers, and to be quite honest, they are finacialy able(through one way or another)to afford the bills often associated with running the new high compression/titanium this and that 4-strokes at it's peak when I and the average Joe cannot.

I don't want to see MX, etc....become a rich man's sport anymore than I want to have to quit deer hunting because all previously open land has been shut down by hunting clubs with a handful of members who feel that I should be willing and/or able to pay $1000+ a year to hunt....but both seem to be happening.

Again, I look at this "debate" in terms of how it affects me personally. I can't afford, and I wouldn't be willing to if I could, spend the money for a new(er) bike that's going to require expensive (to me)regular maintanance and cost more to rebuild when something goes wrong(and on these high strung machines something WILL) than I could afford without having to put my house up as collateral.

Who in the world thinks that an exhaust system is worth $600+ anyway?

-Guess I'm just a dinosaur:)

 

[Moparman1539]

Everyone has there own opinions. And your not going to change them.

I like my 2-stroke, I have nothing against a 4-stroke but i cant afford a newer bike rite now. I also do like how easy it is to fix. And it saves me time. But i have tore apart a 4-stroke go-cart motor (150cc) and to tell you the truth.. it wasn't that hard.

 

[funfactor1]

It is not that it is hard to repair a 4-stroke it is the expense.

 

[DieselTech]

Rice#67,


Who in the world thinks that an exhaust system is worth $600+ anyway?

I don't. However, if it is a Titanium system, the cost may be justifiable based on the cost of Titanium (raw materials). Actually, I'd say it's worth it if it can keep the 4-stroke noise levels at or below what a 2-stroke (like my 93dB '04 CR250R) is.

What I find funny is the money people spend on aftermarket engine performance parts for their machines to "soup them up" (when they aren't even pushing the limits of the bike as it sits stock) - instead of spending the money on what it REALLY takes to make your bike faster - RIDING SKILL - i.e., ride time.

 

[Moparman1539]

What I find funny is the money people spend on aftermarket engine performance parts for their machines to "soup them up" (when they aren't even pushing the limits of the bike as it sits stock) - instead of spending the money on what it REALLY takes to make your bike faster - RIDING SKILL - i.e., ride time.

Its because everyone wants to twist the throttle and then take off like a rocket.it makes them think they are faster. I love to ride my Kx250.. but in reality, i can pull faster lap times (in my yard of course..) on the ke100 than the 250.. But on the 100 i rode it every day for 2 years. I have exceeded the limits of the bike.. throttle is pinned the whole time. But for some reason i FEEL faster on the 250.

 

[stumanarama]

moparman, its simple really, just a perfect example of the rice rocket syndrome. the louder the vehicle is, clearly the faster it is. just look at this theory here
louder=faster, or the advanced formula: badass=fast. x(badass)=x(fast)=sq.rt.(loud)*ignorance level, therefore the level of ignorance times the sqare root of the decibel level=how badass the vehicle operator equates to (in his own mind needless to say). simple algebra

 

[mike109]

[QUOTE=stumanarama the louder the vehicle is, clearly the faster it is.
not ture
if your old smoker has a bad pipe or no packing then it wont be faster it would be slower :nod:

 

[XRpredator]

some people just don't get humor

 

[johnnycrash]

moparman, its simple really, just a perfect example of the rice rocket syndrome. the louder the vehicle is, clearly the faster it is. just look at this theory here
louder=faster, or the advanced formula: badass=fast. x(badass)=x(fast)=sq.rt.(loud)*ignorance level, therefore the level of ignorance times the sqare root of the decibel level=how badass the vehicle operator equates to (in his own mind needless to say). simple algebra

:laugh: x10. BUT ... that's not the rice-rocket syndrome, that's the Hardley-Ableson syndrome (obnoxiously loud yet pathetically slow)

 

[jcarautos1]

Than why do the 4 strokes have so many problems if you staul them out. You gotta kick them till your leg falls off or you replace the plug?

 

[XRpredator]

Than why do the 4 strokes have so many problems if you staul them out. You gotta kick them till your leg falls off or you replace the plug?

you only have to kick them over once unless you are a doofus