Who really believes Carmichael, & why?

nephron · Dec 17, 2001

How many believe he didn't go to Honda for the money?
How many believe he really went for the "technology"? If so, does this not bode well for future KX250 development? Does Ricky have real information on the future of KX250 development? For the first time, he said it was because of Honda's 4 stroke development (DirtRider)--yet he has no immediate plans to ride one. :silly:

On a side note--my dealer was told the future of the Zook/Kawi deal is that they'll take the "best seller" of the two equivalent bikes, color & label the same exact bike zook or kawi, and sell both.:think

XRpredator · Dec 17, 2001

Originally posted by nephron
. . . For the first time, he said it was because of Honda's 4 stroke development (DirtRider)--yet he has no immediate plans to ride one. :silly:

Even though I am not a fan of the Leprechaun, I think he sees what the future holds for MX/SX, and that's 4-strokes. (sorry, spooge guys) Eventually, that's what all new bikes will be. Honda is famous for 4-stroke reliability, and Kawasaki isn't! Maybe the Kawa-Zuki (Su-Saki?) deal was another part of why he left?

bwalker · Dec 17, 2001

Honda is famous for 4-stroke reliability, and Kawasaki isn't!

I dont think thats the case at all. Kawi has made some great 4 stroke street bike motors that are everybit as reliable and powerful as a Honda. I say it was deep pockets that cause him to make the switch.

JuliusPleaser · Dec 17, 2001

Ricky could have gotten the money from any of the manufacturers. Why would he lie? He's been in the game long enough to know that Honda is the place to be. Honda is THE Japanese techno powerhouse. Yamaha is the only other Jap manufacturer to even try an F1 entry, and their efforts pale in comparison to what Honda has done. Honda has built countless four-stroke V-10 and V-12 powerplants. Their modern F-1 engines turn 18,000 RPM. Remember the 6-cylinder 125cc road race bike? It was an incredible feat of engineering --and it was built in the 60s. :eek:

The Kawi/Suzuki merger doesn't bode well for either manufacturer. Desperation, perhaps?

Too bad Toyota doesn't make MX bikes...

bwalker · Dec 17, 2001

Honda is famous for 4-stroke reliability, and Kawasaki isn't!

I dont think thats the case at all. Kawi has made some great 4 stroke street bike motors that are everybit as reliable and powerful as a Honda. I say it was deep pockets that cause him to make the switch.

XRpredator · Dec 17, 2001

Ben, I'm talking off-road. When you look at XR vs. KLX, where's the better history?

If you talk street bikes, you can just about throw all the mfrs in there!

zio · Dec 17, 2001

I agree with XRP. He coulda gotten that kind of scratch from any manufacturer.

Now to further take this thread O/T-

Originally posted by XRpredator
Ben, I'm talking off-road. When you look at XR vs. KLX, where's the better history?

If you talk street bikes, you can just about throw all the mfrs in there!

Can someone explain this to me? Not being into streetbikes, I just assumed that if I ever bought a japanese streetbike (not likely), I'd buy Honda/Yamaha and shy away from Kawasaki/Suzuki just because of their reliability reputations in the off-road community (deserved or not). So is this not true of their street machines? All are pretty much equal in the reliability arena? Why then the HUGE difference between the four makes, as perceived by the off-road community? What gives? :think

Miltonyz · Dec 17, 2001

For the first time, he said it was because of Honda's 4 stroke development (DirtRider)--yet he has no immediate plans to ride one.

It's getting pretty thick around here I better put on my waders.
Hondas four stroke development. Well lets see Honda comes out with the 450F four years after Yamaha brings out the 400. KTM made four stroke motocrossers before the Honda. A bicycle company made four stroke motocrossers before Honda.
I think I would have more respect for Ricky if he would at least admit it was for the money.

kingriz1 · Dec 17, 2001

ASK YOURSELF!

Would you switch to a different bike for say a million dollars.

Hell I would switch if they just gave me a discount!!

Do you believe the Heisman trophy winner when he says the trophy is not important!

Or Michael when he says Nike's are better.

These are mere formalities.

"The future of MX is 4 strokes"

When do you think the pros will ALL be riding a four stroke? Will Carmicheal still be riding then? When does his current contract with Honda end?

Why do you guys not like the kid? Am I missing something?

I dont a thing about MX bikes, however I am trying to learn.

zio-- I am partial to Yamaha/Honda in the rocket arena. Suzuki and Kawasaki just dont handle as well in my opinion. Not to say one is THAT much better than the other.

If anything a Manufacturer has about a year, if that, exclusivitey on any one great improvent. Most of the time it is 6 one way or half a dozen the other.

In the end you can chalk it up to the greatest drug ever

Percieved Value!!

We are consumed by it.

I would love to see a study changing the colors and logos of bikes and seeing how many people would notice.

Just my .02.

Thanks Guys,

Riz

JMD · Dec 17, 2001

It wasn't the money. Listen very carefully this time: Kawasaki would have paid him just as much. You think they wan'ted to lose the champ? He saw Honda as a better team, a better company, all around. That may not be correct, but Honda definitely has that reputation. So you can argue about whether RC was right or wrong to switch, but IT WASN"T FOR THE MONEY. Here endeth the lesson.

XRpredator · Dec 17, 2001

Originally posted by Miltonyz
It's getting pretty thick around here I better put on my waders.
Hondas four stroke development. Well lets see Honda comes out with the 450F four years after Yamaha brings out the 400. KTM made four stroke motocrossers before the Honda. A bicycle company made four stroke motocrossers before Honda.

Milt, you gotta look at the bigger picture. Yamaha's (and KTM's for that matter) 4-stroke development is only about 5 years old. Honda has been in it a looooong time. You also gotta look at F1/Indycar development. Sure, Yamaha got their 4-stroke tech from F1, but Honda's been in it longer. They just didn't move as fast as Yamaha, who really lucked out that they didn't grenade every engine they made with only one year of development time.

Honda isn't going to put anything out until they know it's bulletproof. That's why they still make air-cooled XRs.

I think I would have more respect for Ricky if he would at least admit it was for the money.

For the last time, it wasn't for the money. Just like JMD said. Honda is the Big Red Machine, and don't s--- yourself, every pro motocrosser's dream is to ride for Honda.

mx547 · Dec 17, 2001

Originally posted by XRpredator

Honda is the Big Red Machine, and don't s--- yourself, every pro motocrosser's dream is to ride for Honda.

i was talking to guy cooper once just after honda let him go. he said that he offered to ride for them for bikes and parts only, no salary. suzuki got lucky on that one.

bwalker · Dec 17, 2001

I'd buy Honda/Yamaha and shy away from Kawasaki/Suzuki just because of their reliability reputations in the off-road community (deserved or not). So is this not true of their street machines?

Zio,Thats not the case at all.

For the last time, it wasn't for the money. Just like JMD said. Honda is the Big Red Machine, and don't s--- yourself, every pro motocrosser's dream is to ride for Honda.

Wasnt ricky like 5 when when the big red machine was going strong? I say money.

BigR · Dec 17, 2001

IMHO - The KX has been around for a while with their current frame. I'll bet that they are thinking of changing in the next year or two to something different, perhaps aluminum. Maybe Ricky saw the growing pains that Honda went through trying to develop a good aluminum frame and thought best not to be part of the same growing pains that Kawi would go through IF that is what they do.

Remember - one of the reasons MC left Honda was the bike in 97. The first gen aluminum frame (although I liked mine).

This is all purely conjecture on my behalf - but there may be some truth in there somewhere.

Jay-R · Dec 17, 2001

I am of the opinion that the Research and Development dept. at Kawasaki is not up to par with Honda. Maybe, Ricky was tired of riding a 6 year old bike. I agree that Ricky could have gotten the money from any manufacturer. Also, he probably knew of the Kawauzuki merger, which makes the future of the company questionable. As far as the 4 stroke development goes, he has the choice of which bike to ride. However, from what I read in MXRacer , Two strokes will continue to be legal in closed course competition beyond 2006. So I doubt that he will be forced to ride the 4-stroke by the EPA.

Also, all other things being equal, who wouldn't choose to ride for Honda. ;)

splatt · Dec 17, 2001

Sounds like the same arguments that went around baseball when A-Rod signed with Texas.

WaltCMoto · Dec 17, 2001

Why did Ricky leave

Because the grass is always greener on the other side. Some times we working people have jobs for a long time, sometimes we dont. Carmichael should be allowed to change jobs just like us without having to explain every move he makes. I think he handled his move profesionialy, and the "not for the money " statement was politicaly correct, so leave the guy alone. Maybe he just needed a change of surroundings.
BTW, how long have you been at your job, 4 yrs for me. Ive had 8 jobs so far ranging from 1 to 9 years.

fatty_k · Dec 17, 2001

I saw an interview with him and I remember RC saying that it has been a life long dream of his to race for team Honda; from the beginning. Im not taking sides for "was it for the money or not" but I am leaning towards a non money realated issue.

stormer94 · Dec 17, 2001

I read somewhere that Honda came in and said, "we want you", and as a racing fella, that would be quite a compliment. He then asked Kawaskai what they were willing to do? They said, they would do nothing. Wouldn't that be quite a slap in the face for RC. I think if you start with one company, you probably feel you owe them something. But then to have them not even try and keep him would have been quite an insult in my mind.

Hey guys, Honda digs me!!! :) Kawasaki comes back with "So?" and that's it.

Plus, look, the guy only has a few years to be a racing guru, followed by years of arthritus, aches and pains that old MX guys get. A man's got to make a living, and you only have so much time in our sport to do it.

I'm sure he asked, "Please look at it, reconsider, make me an offer, anything. Show me you appreciate what I did for the brand..." they did nothing...

RC is not very personable, that's the real problem. If Pastrana ever makes a move, we'll hear about it for about a week, and that will be the end of it. He'll explain it to us, we'll appreciate his decision, support him if we like him (it's his career afterall) and then we'll move on.

I support the guy 100%. I'm also throwing my hat to the new and improved 'lean mean' McGrath. Can't wait to see where it takes us. ;)

Jay-R · Dec 17, 2001

Well said Stormer!!:D

JMD · Dec 18, 2001

Stormer, good comments, for the most part. However, there is just no way that Kawasaki told MC they would do nothing for him. Does that make any sense at all to you? Would ANYBODY who had the fastest guy on the planet under contract do absolutely nothing to try to keep him? Nonsense. Kawasaki tried to keep him--of course they tried. But there was one thing Kawasaki couldn't do, no matter how much money they offered him--they couldn't be Honda, and that's what RC wanted.

Ramski · Dec 18, 2001

Don't think because Honda is one of the last to develop a racing 4 stroke that they lack. Remember that race bikes are not where the money is for these companies. XR's have always outsold every bike out there. Honda has made sooooo much money on the XR's. If I could always have two bikes, I would have a XR as a tight trail bike.

RC knows Honda is where all the great motocross guys end up. Kawasaki brings them up and Honda finishes them.

nephron · Dec 18, 2001

I think he's vain, & insecure. Vain in the sense that the "ideal" is to ride for Honda, and that's all. It's that simple. Insecure in the sense that he doesn't have the nuts to stay with Kawi & kick everyone's ass on a green machine. I'm sure Kawi offered him the bones, but he probably considers himself too great for them anymore. Who wouldn't after last season? I don't really blame him--just a conceptual thing, you know? A self-perceived dream.

I also disagree that there's much difference in the bikes at that level. Sure, the Kawi hasn't changed much, but it works well. Certainly, it can't be said that the CR250R is the best 250 out there (look at the reviews). It will be tough to eclipse McGrath's bike this year, IMO.

But, he obviously has a big task ahead of him if he thinks he's going to duplicate last year (for Honda), this year. I think MC is gonna step it up big, & in a lot of ways, RC was quite lucky last year. If things start mediocre for him, and he starts getting pressure from the Honda camp (eg, every other race, 2nd to MC:) ), like Ezra said, we'll see how he holds up.

This is gonna be great. I can't wait. What an upcoming season.:debil:

JMD · Dec 18, 2001

One thing about last year's season for Carmichael: he didn't crash much. Until last year, the rap on RC was that he was fast but wild, and crashed his brains out. He still rides wild, but he seems to have mastered the Hannah-like knack of riding just on the ragged edge of control. That is a very fine line to walk, though, and he could slip easily. I wouldn't be surprised to see RC win again this year just like last. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to see a return of Crashing Ricky, and it doesn't take more than one bad crash to end the season. If MC pushes him enough, RC could start making mistakes. I'm not hoping to see him crash; I think he's a great champion. But anything can happen in racing. It doesn't pay to make too many assumptions. But Hoo Boy! It's going to be a great season!

Mudboy · Dec 18, 2001

I don't blame him for wanting a change. He's on top of the game and has been with Kawi for a long time. I was however disappointed to see him immediately bag on Kawi after all they've done for him.

As far as Honda being every rider's "dream"--I'd call it more like a nightmare. Win or else... If they were THE team, McGrath would not have left. They pressure the hell out of their riders and it shows--

It should be a good season, though--I'm rooting for McGrath (and anyone else on an RM, KX, YZ, or SX). :debil:

Who really believes Carmichael, & why?

nephron

Dr. Feel Good

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers

bwalker

JuliusPleaser

Too much of a good thing.

bwalker

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers

zio

Mr. Atlas

Miltonyz

Sponsoring Member

kingriz1

JMD

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers

mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream

bwalker

BigR

Jay-R

splatt

Resident mental case

WaltCMoto

Sponsoring Member

fatty_k

stormer94

Jay-R

JMD

Ramski

nephron

Dr. Feel Good

JMD

Mudboy

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