Why don't we sue WTA over the bogus Fuel Use Study

[bbbom]

Finally had a chance to read through the Fuel Use Study info on the IAC site. http://www.iac.wa.gov/downloads/NOVA/NOVA_Fuel_Report_FINAL.pdf

What a load of garbage!!! To claim that 7,252 returned, useable surveys out of 42,995 mailed (16%) are representative of 5.1 Million registered vehicles is ludicrious!

In addition, the survey only allowed for consideration of the gas used in ONE vehicle (I know I've heard this before but I finally had time to really look at it).

That works quite nicely if you are driving to a facility to go for a hike or hauling your mtb or horse. All of your gas consumption gets counted drive 20 miles each way, use 2 gallons of gas and have a great weekend.

If you are like my family though, when we head to the trailhead it's in one pickup with 5 dirtbikes and a camper. We drive 20 miles each way, use 54 gallons of gas and have a great weekend but only getting credit for 4 - 10 gallons of gas depending upon which one vehicle counts for the survey!

We need to sue the WTA for misuse of NOVA funds, and for outright fraud. Then we need to demand Herbert Research refund the money because the study was BOGUS! :flame:

 

[Tod]

The lawsuit option is being explored. Currently, the popular opinion of some of the folks closest to the issue is that to disprove the study, you need to do another study demonstrating the inaccuracy of the Herbert study. Some guesses are that a reasonable study my be possible for about $250K.

In addition to the very valid points already made, another factor may have even further skewed the results. Without any on-site, at the trailhead type of data being gathered, many of the ORVers input was not recieved. Like it or not, demographics show that the same type of person that goes out riding their dirtbike alot are many times the same type that doesn't bother with mail-in surveys. Although many of us discussing the problem in this forum don't fit the standard mold, lots of riders are active young males with a personal agenda to full to view wasting time filling out or remembering to mail a survey worth the bother.

City dwelling, bikeless, lifeless, TV anesthetized losers do have time to fill out surveys.

 

[Tahuya Rat]

bbbom, when I got mine (for my son's ex xr100), I thought I must've been reading it wrong, how could they allow hikers to use freeway mileage against the few drops an xr100 might use? Called 'em, yep, that's their agenda.

Another thing they missed by not doing on the ground surveys - how many from each group are actually using the trail systems. We use 'em 12 months out've the year, rarely see hikers unless it's a nice sunny day.....which is about 10 weekends or so out of the year.

 

[bbbom]

Rat, I think that your post on the XR100 was where I first heard about someone even receiving a survey. I do not know one single person that I have talked to that received the survey.

Wow, Tod $250 K for another survey! Guess I should have paid more attention in Statistics Class.

I am happy to hear that the lawsuit option is being considered I know the NMA and WSMDA (and many others) are working hard on the whole situation and I trust that if a lawsuit would actually be in our best interest they will get something going. I've been firing up the local dealers here - they have the money (I know they don't have that much but at least they have more than I do) and actually more to lose than we do.

Incidentally, I hate lawsuits but sometimes it's the only way.

BTW, I just received an email from Dave Hiatt, our own Firecracker is working on a story for some local newspapers here.

 

[fishhead]

Bbboom

Delivered copies of the Doc to the south end dealers today and they were very receptive. Overall the dealers seem to realize that they need to be involved at the grassroots level with customers as well as through the dealer association to stem the tide of land grabbing. Its going to be beneficial to remind them whats going on to maintain awareness of the problem.

One dealer lamented the fact that King County leads the state in OHV registrations yet there is no place within the county to ride on public lands. How did that happen? By sticking our heads in the sand and hoping the problem would go away. Not wanting to rock the boat and being thrown out. Dealers could be made more aware of the dollars at satke for their industry.

Another dealer was very surprised that a grass roots campaign was successful in reopening Walker Valley. The bottom line is, public opinion counts, if you don't voice your opinion strenuously you won't count to the politico's.

As far as sueing the WTA, I say, go for it. The same tactic has been used for years against us so give them a taste of their own medicine. If we pick the battles carefully we should prevail.

 

[bbbom]

The dealers over here have been very receptive also. Something I thought of was getting the business's that already sponsor the clubs and races involved.

I faxed a copy of the info to our local race promoter here and she said she'd get the info out to her sponsors.

There are some pretty big business's involved as sponsors so hopefully they will step up and help out.

 

[Tod]

sueing the WTA

Actually it's the State of Washington that is the responsible party.
Members of the WTA are in infuential positions with the State's Interagency Committee for Outdoor Recreation (IAC)

 

[bbbom]

I thought you'd say that! Hopefully we can get enough people involved and turn it around without such drastic and expensive measures.

What is really disgusting is when you click on the link for Recreational Clubs on the Seattle PI website, click on NW Outdoors then click on Area Recreation Clubs, scroll down to WTA and you find:

Washington Trails Association: Works to preserve and enhance Washington's diverse trail system through education, informational programs and activities. Dues $35. Write to: Washington Trails Association, 1305 Fourth Ave., Suite 512, Seattle, WA 98101-2401; 205-1367; www.wta.org

DIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then, go to WTA's website and click on About WTA and you find:

During this time Ira Spring had become infuriated by ORVs on hiking trails. With his wide knowledge of trails, he became Louise's and WTA's strongest supporter.

There is NO mention of any acceptable forms of recreation EXCEPT hiking in any of their propaganda. Diverse? The whole use of that work in relation to WTA is perverse!

I gotta go take my medication now....................... :|

 

[Tod]

NO mention of any acceptable forms of recreation EXCEPT hiking in any of their propaganda.

Even worse. A couple of years ago, the President of the Backcountry Horsemen of Washington showed me a letter he sent out to his members asking them NOT to continue to assist the WTA on trail work projects. It seems as though the WTA would take 100 percent credit for projects that the BCH was heavily involved in. The straw that broke the camels back was a group picture of trail workers was published with the horses intentially cropped out.

 

[MXP1MP]

grrr just reading this makes my blood boil, I think i'm gonna go cement myself to a tree or in the middle of the road or on some hiking trail to protest :) Hey its worked for the enviro freakazoids and i bet it even get me on tv and I'd be famous for 15 mins and I'd probably even get awesome interviews from the news wanting to know why I took such a drastic action. Remember those kids from a few years back who cemented thier arms into cement blocks to stop logging. Who's with me? I don't think I could do it alone :)

 

[fishhead]

How about a tiger mountain ride in?

 

[Tod]

I've thought about showing up for one of their events very early and filling the trailhead with rigs and trailered bikes so that they would have no place to park. Determining the appropriate time and place so that the message would be applicable and effective is the key.