Why the 04 CR125 is Junk

[ronm]

Forgive me for venting but I am so frustrated with my recent purchase of a new 04 CR125. I bought a new bike because I did not want take another chance on buying someone elses problems. So instead it looks like I purchased brand new junk.

I knew when I purchased this bike it is as is and carries no warranty and I don't have a problem with that. My problem is that even though the bike is in completely stock form, nothing modified or added and I am running the fuel mixture and oil recommended by Honda, I have gone through 14 plugs in 3 weeks. It is not even fun to ride any more because we are always worried about fouling the plug and having to push it back.

Now I have read many posts regarding jetting and I understand it is important, but I live at an altitude, and temperature that should be right in line with the stock settings for this bike. So why then am I fouling plugs everytime we ride. Why couldn't Honda just provide me with a motorcyle that works as advertised.

I cannot help but feeling that Honda has ripped me off because they could not engineer something that should just work. I understand that they could never warranty these bikes because of the way in which they are used, but they should certainly be held accountable for delivering a product that does not perform as advertised in a completely stock condition.

So if there are any of you considering the purchase of an 04 CR125, I suggest you consider another choice other than Honda. I am getting very little help from the dealers around here and all anyone ever says is "Are you staying on the pipe" or "Are you keeping it revved up" Duuuuhhhhhh, I bought a CR not an XR but the bottom line is I should at least be able to let it idle when I stop. We dont' put around on it. However I will give credit to one of the sales guys from the dealership who offered for me to go out riding with him and he would bring all is stuff, tools, jets, etc.... and help me get it worked out. I will probably take him up on that, but it should not be necessary. Honda should take the time and engineer these motorcycles so they work as intended.

So in summary, I am sick to my stomach on the amount of hard earned money I have spent on this purchase simply because Honda could not deliver on their end.


Ron Myers

 

[jackdrinker]

mx bikes do not idle. it's the nature of the beast....
the motor is jetted to work in every condition in the 50 states.. the tuning is all up to you. there is no such thing as working in your altitude or conditions. small changes in the weather affect jetting as heat ranges of plugs...

 

[Bizerk]

Well, I'm not taking sides either way on this one but will let you know from experience that all motorcycle manufacturers jet their bikes too rich from the factory. Fouled plugs are usually a telltale sign of too much fuel and or too much oil. I totally understand about the hard earned money into this bike and would feel exactly the same way. All I can recommend is that you try to be a little patient and to lean out the jetting one small step at a time. Take a look at Eric Gorrs website on carb tunning. Great stuff there.

 

[ronm]

The manual specifically states the altitude and temperature that the stock jetting is designed for. Not all 50 states meet these settings which is why they have the table to begin with. So if you are at a higher altitude and difference in temperature you can make adjustments accordingly.

Regarding idle, I do not let the bike idle for even 1 minute, but I would be willing to bet if I did it would foul the plug.

I also have a 98 CR250 and never have any problems with it. My quess is the previous owner put a lot of time tuning and jetting. Of the 3 used bikes I bought a couple of years ago, it was the only one worth what I paid for it.

Ron

 

[KX02]

My bike idles fine, thank you very much! I do not know how what you mean by saying that the bike is jetted to work in any condition in the 50 states Jack? Temp, altitude, humidity, all effect jetting. But it does sound like these later CR's have more than their fair share of grief. I am really surprised actually, it seems CR owners have always thought they had a better bike than the rest, but from reading this site I think it seems quite the opposite. I considered a CR when I got my bike, I'm glad I got a KX instead! I really love it! ronm, I would definitely take your dealer up on him helping you, good luck!

 

[ronm]

My patience is running then and yes I know it can eventually be worked out. Anyone interested in an 04 CR125 with less than 10 hours on it?


Ron

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

Yea, take it easy man, you bought a sweet bike! My brand new YZ250 fouled a plug after a few rides and boy was I pissed off! It was my own fault though for letting it idle for a while. These bikes were made to be raced and driven hard which is why they jet them a little rich I guess. You just have to get it jetted properly and I bet then it wouldnt keep fouling plugs like it is. Mine fouled once and hasnt since, thank god, but I also havent been letting it just sit and idle either. If your gonna let it sit there and idle, not saying you do, but if you do, you have to keep twisting the throttle, which is fun anyway cause it sounds cool. :laugh: Hang in there, and get it jetted properly by someone who knows what to do if you dont. You will soon be enjoying that baby and remembering why you spent that hard-earned money! Good luck!! Mike :thumb:

 

[ronm]

Well thanks guys for the encouragement, and just to be clear, I do not let the bike sit an idle, but if I wanted too, I should be able to. I am certain this can be worked out, but it I bought the bike for my sons to ride not push it back so I can put another $6.00 plug in it.

Now lets think about what is being said, here. Spend the time and get it jetted correctly and perhaps get someone else to do it $$$$$. This is my point exactly, I already spent $$$$$ on a new bike and according to the mfg's specs and my altitude and temperature, it should work as is and I should not have to do anything. That is my whole point.

Ron

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

Ron, you are right, you should be able to, but the way they come jetted you cant. You can probably jet it and let it idle all day if you wanted to, but then that would hurt performance in another area I bet. The dealership you bought it from, do they have mechanics there? Maybe they will help you out and not charge you anything since the bike is brand new and you bought it from them. Just a thought. I have read on here somewhere as well, that when a bike is brand new, they tend to foul plugs, and when they get broken in, they stop. I dont remember what thread I read that in, but I did read it. Try not to feel bad though, really, because it happens to all of us. I will say though that when I was younger, I had a brand new 1991 KX80 and that bike NEVER EVER fouled a plug. I used to let that bike sit and idle while I went inside to go to the bathroom or get something to drink, haha, and it never fouled. Funny because the guy above has a KX125 and he says he can let his bike sit and idle and it wont foul either. I guess KX's are jetted differently than the other makes?? I guess we can score 1 point here for the green machines. :worship: Good luck. I am certain you will get this problem resolved. Keep us posted. Oh by the way, if you do a search, you will see MANY threads on guys fouling plugs, its very common with the types of bikes we all own, well except that damn KX rider above! :laugh: Mike :)

 

[ronm]

I can assure you the dealer wont do anything for free in their service department. I know this because I brought the bike back the very next morning after I purchased it. It fouled its first plug within 30 min. of me taking it off the trailer. When I brought it back to them, the service guy made it a point to inform me that if something other than a fouled plug was at fault, they would have to charge me for it. I bought a new plug and it cranked right away. Anyway, the service guys there dont really know much apparently about 2 strokes, at least that is what I take from it. They seem to be more focused on street bikes.

Anyway in all fairness, one of the Salesman has a 125 and he offered to help me get this worked out, so I will probably take him up on it. I just have to meet him at the riding place and he apparently has a wide selection of jets that we can use.

Still, we are not talking about rocket science here guys, surely if we can send a man to the moon, stock 2 strokes can be engineered to work as purchased. I believe the community is letting the manufactureres get away with too much.

Ron

 

[crmx91]

Didn't a jetting kit come with the bike when you bought it? I know my 03 cr125 did. Drop the main 1 size, the needle one size, and the needle clip position down a notch, go down 2 on the slow jet and turn the air screw to 3/4 or a turn. My bike fouled plugs left and right when i first bought it, but i haven't fouled a plug in 5 months once i corrected the jetting. Trust me, honda doesn't make a POS anything.

 

[ronm]

Yes the bike came with another jetting kit. I have switched to the slow jet from the other kit which is 37.5 as compared to the stock 40, and the main jet I switched to the 410 from stock 420. The extra jet kit had a 400 main jet kit which I guess I will try next since I already have it.

The reason I bought the CR125 over other choices was because of my experience with a 98 CR250 bought used but I still have it. This bike is rock solid and cranks everytime, but I bet I would have the same issues if I bought it new. The point is, Honda should sell it to me the way it is supposed to be, I should not have to spend time and money to do their job for them. I wont go into the POS Kawasaki makes called a KLX300 in which a poorly engineered 30.00 Idler gear as caused catastophic crankcase damage for numerous KLX 300 owners (I am one of them). I bought a Honda because I considered them to be 1 of the top 2 offroad bike manufacturers.

Ron

 

[WWR]

Hypothetical:
some guy who doesnt know how to jet goes out and spends $16,000 (going price) on a Honda RS250 GP bike. It fouls plugs when set to some factory recommended jetting chart. It is Honda's fault? After all, he spent alot of money on it, for goodness sake, it should jet itself, right??

First of all, you purchased a 2-stroke RACE machine. These bikes, to be tuned properly, need to be rejetted any time the weather changes. Humidity, altitude, and temperature all have a large effect on the jetting requirements. Jetting requirements are NOT ALL THE SAME, even between "identical" bikes. Even on a completely stock bike, you will need to rejet when the weather changes. You are supposed to use the jetting chart only as a STARTING POINT. You need to have some ability beyond that to get it truly correct, and you need to purchase an assortment of jet sizes.

Take the time, read some books, learn to jet, learn your bike. If you still dont like it or are too lazy to tune it, you should probably switch to a 4-stroke.

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

Whats the other make? Yamaha?? :yeehaw: Mike :)

 

[Moto Squid]

dude don't worry...my 02 cr125 was the exact same way when new. Mine would start then I'd be riding and it'd just bog and die from a fouled plug. A little leaner jetting and all was good :thumb: IMO throw that jetting table away. Check out Eric Gorrs link with how to jet a bike. Spend another coupla dollars on jets and go experiment. Thats the fun part (for some at least) I'm not sure about the 04's but my 02 I could just rotate the carb and gain access to the main jet (through the drain hole) and rotate it the other way to get at the needle. Quite easy after you do it a few times. You should actually like the bike once you get it jetted a bit better :yeehaw:

 

[ronm]

First of all, I have learned how to change the jets. You are missing the point. The manual states specific temperatures and altitudes for the stock jetting. My point is these settings do not work. I paid good money for something that I expect to work as advertised. Yes the stock jetting is a starting point, and in this case even though all atmospheric conditions match that starting point, it is also a FOULING point. Therefore, I guess I should just throw the manual out the window because if the Starting(Fouling) point is off, why should I trust any of the rest of it.

Furthermore, I would agree that for optimum perfomance and if you are racing, you probably should be jetting as environmental changes occur, however on a stock bike it should be engineered so that the stock settings actually work.

It amazes me how many people just accept this as the way it is. I bet if Honda were forced legislatively to warranty their race bikes to work as advertised even for a period of 30 days, they would change their tune (no punn intended) as soon as it was their dealers spending money on plugs, jets, etc.

Also, it is not about being too lazy to change the jets. The point is I did not buy the bike to work on it, I bought it for my sons to enjoy. Yep its alot of fun for them to see me wrenching on it. If they were racing it, I would accept the different requirements.

An lastly you are damn straight, if I spent 16K on a motorcycle, which I have, but not a Honda, I would certainly expect it to work as stock settings if all atmospheric conditions related to those settings correlated to the mfg. table. If you don't expect more for your 16k then perhaps you are the kind of customer they are looking for.

Ron

 

[ronm]

Yes Mike, my other preference is Yamaha,

Then again, thats for the dirt!

My street ride and preference is an 03 Harley V-ROD. Which by the way cost me more than 16K and I did not have to do anything to it to enjoy, although I have.

Ron

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

Ron, you have good taste. :thumb: I think we all understand where you are coming from, but this is just how dirtbikes are and I guess we all just accept it. When I bought my YZ, I told the guy I atleast wanna hear it run outside before doing the paperwork, so he agreed. I started it up and was letting it idle and he reached over and kept twisting the throttle to keep it running and also so it wouldnt load up and foul out. I told him to just let it idle cause I wanna see what happens. He said it might just foul out, and went on to say these bikes werent designed to sit and idle, you gotta always be on it. I kind of didnt like that answer, but I took it as an answer and bought the bike anyway. I totally see where you are coming from Ron, but its just how it is with dirtbikes. Its not like just the bike you bought is a lemon or anything, dirtbikes are just finicky. I bet your sons enjoy the bike anyway, even when its not running, just having it in their possession must make them smile from ear to ear! I know mine makes me smile daily! Just looking at it gives me a huge grin on my face! Take that salesman up on his offer and get this jetting thing sorted out. Best of luck to you pal, and please keep us informed. Mike :) :)

 

[ronm]

Thanks for the compliment. And yes I do understand what these bikes are designed for and believe me when I say we do not just let them idle, we make sure we warm them up before riding off, even then not just idling but rather easing on the thottle on and off until it is warmed up. My problem is the bike is fouling while in my opinion it is being ridden as it was designed to be.


Well thanks for everyones input, the general concensus seems to be it is something everyone deals with and so I will work it out, and thanks for giving me a place to vent these frustrations. You are all a great bunch!

PS. Will be buying another bike and 4 wheeler in the near future. Looking for a 4 Stroke mostly for trails. Any suggestions?

 

[viking20]

Several bikes are jetted way rich from the factory , to avoid too many seized bikes.....The "perfect" jetting would still have to be richened when the track is heavy,wet or whatever condition that puts a higher load on the engine....Have you tried leaning the needle one notch ? If the ignition system on the bike is ok , and the jetting is reasonably close , fouling plugs is not an issue....We could probably run the same plug all season in our bikes , and I only change them once in a while for peace of mind , when doing a top end or something.
When my boys raced 80´s and 85´s , Im pretty sure we ran the same plug all year in one of them....Just the cheap standard NGK plugs,nothing special...We only ride closed mx tracks , so apart from warming up , the bikes have been on the pipe for most of the time , which obviously helps. A bike should certainly be able to idle for a few minutes without any problems.....

 

[ben.handasyde]

what oil are you using is it a full synthetic? i was using mineral oil and fouled a whole heap of plugs changes oil and never fouled one since.

 

[Mike's 2003 YZ250]

Yea, he brings up a good point as well. What kind of oil are you using and what ratio of premix are you running? I use the reccomended Yamalube 2R oil, but I dont run the ratio they say to run. They say in the owners manual to run 30:1. First off, there isnt even a 30:1 marking on my Ratio Rite cup that I use, lol. After talking to many people in person and reading everyones opinions on here, I now run 40:1. Its weird though, you would think the more oil you put, the more chance you have of fouling out a plug, but it seems its just the opposite if you read what everyone has to say in the threads talking about jetting. The KX80 I had, I ran 32:1 from day 1 and never had a problem, but thats what that bike called for, 32:1. This bike calls for 30:1, which in my opinion is alot of oil, besides the Ratio Rite cup not showing a marking for this ratio.

Now onto your next question. You want to buy another dirtbike and quad and want them both to be 4 strokes? If so, then for the dirtbike, I suggest a 250f, any namebrand, its the equivalent of a 125 2 stroke. For a 4 stroke quad, I suggest one from Yamaha. They have the Raptor, which is a 660, and they have one that just came out, a step down from that, the YFZ450. 2 nice machines. What did you have in mind to get?? Mike

 

[viking20]

Maybe the oil type can make "spooging" worse and foul plugs more frequently , but again , if you have a healthy spark , dont drown the bike too often , and the jetting is reasonably close , there should be no problems.....

 

[holeshot]

Although I've heard rumors of some 125's being jetted "pretty close" straight off the showroom floor, these bikes are more the exception than the rule. Every new 125 I've bought (going back to the early 70's) has come jetted rich.

My current 125 ('03 KX) comes with a #40 pilot and I've gone down to #30 (and it's still a little rich). Things haven't changed in the past thirty years and I doubt they will as long as they are selling 125 two strokes.

Honda (and every other manufacturer) is trying to cover their arse by delivering the bikes a little bit rich (to be on the safe side).

 

[Porstala F9]

Yeah dude, I had nightmares fouling plugs on my 03' KX 125.

And Kawasakis are jetted even richer than Hondas! :eek:

I fouled about 10 plugs in an estimated total before I adjusted the jetting. I was running Kawalube (junk oil) 32:1 and BR8EG's and ES's and fouling plugs like crazy. EVERY ride would foul a plug. Then I switched oils to Bel Ray H1R (36:1) and still using BR8EG plugs, and I went to fouling plug every OTHER ride. So that helped a little. Then came the jetting.. I turned the air-screw out half a turn, and moved the jet needle clip up a position (from 3rd to 2nd from the top) and so far I have been on the same BR8EG plug (which isnt even the stock plug) for 15 riding days and counting, and thats not including times I have stopped the bike to take a rest! And I have yet to even touch the main or pilot jets, allthough I have them I am waiting for the wamer weather to put them in, because warmer weather richens your jetting, so the proper adjustment is leaner jetting.

And remember to stick with one premix ratio and one oil when you adjust jetting so you have a better idea on the results, because many things from: Oil brand, oil type (synthetic is thick stuff so I lean it out), Premix ratio, Temperature, Altitude, and the way you ride it all effect the jetting. And leaning the premix ratio (32:1 to 40:1) actually richens the jetting.

And I would like to mention that I have had nothing but terrible experiences dealing with both Honda and Kawasaki dealers and the companies themselves. Also, the manual jetting guides, and everything else in the manual are all set up for racing. These are high performance competition bikes, and my manual bases EVERYTHING on racing. I dont race, I ride here locally at trails and construction sites so I put a lot less stress on the engine most of the time. The honda and kawasaki dealers around here persuaded me not to touch the jetting on my bike, and gave me tons of BS along the way, such as how only a trained carburetor tuner can change the jets, and that you need a special screwdriver to remove the top piece on the carb, fouling plugs every ride is normal, spooge is wanted, etc..

Good luck :)