marcusgunby
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- Jan 9, 2000
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Ive known only a few bikes come jetted right for me, in over 20 years of riding.
Why the 04 CR125 is Junk
- Thread starter ronm
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Stop using honda's jetting suggestions. Go to a good website with jetting recomendations and start there. Once you get it right the bike will behave great and stop fouling plugs.
One thing to note though, your bike will never set and idle for long periods of time. Idling for a few seconds is ok but anything after that is going to load up the plug although you should be able to clean it off with a few revs.
I suggest Maxima 927 oil 32:1 with leaded race gas for your bike. If your running pump gas in that thing your asking for problems.
One thing to note though, your bike will never set and idle for long periods of time. Idling for a few seconds is ok but anything after that is going to load up the plug although you should be able to clean it off with a few revs.
I suggest Maxima 927 oil 32:1 with leaded race gas for your bike. If your running pump gas in that thing your asking for problems.
lets not all forget that jetting is also related to rider ability!! the jetting for a super fast rider is going to be wa ydifferent than someone who just putts around, especialy on a 125 the faster rider will need much richer jetting so your manuel might have the correct jetting for a fast racer but when you a your son putt around on this race bike hitting powerband here and there letting the bike idle here and there the bike will load up so you need much leaner jetting than a fast rider would need. as a matter of fact the correct jetting for you and your son might be so lean for a pro that he would do engine damage if riden for just a few minutes have you ever seen a pro rider in person they scream those 125's 110% of the time they never let off. if honda jetted there race bikes to idle and run clean when just riden around by a normal novice rider the bike would actuly run so lean when riden buy a very fast rider that it would blow up. and honda would rather see a slow rider foul a plug than fast racer riders telling everbody that the hondas suck because when riden stock they blow up unless richen the jettiny way up.when picking a new bike who do you listen to the slow guy who sucks riding behind his house or the pro's who race? so see why honda jetts these bikes to make fast riders happy....because everybody listens to what the fast riders who race motocross/supercross say about the bikes not the guy who rides his cr125 race bike behind his house or in the local woods.like i said if the bike came jetted perfect for normal riders someone who just rides the bike around for fun that jetting would be probuly way too lean for the racers who tell all you normal riders what bike to buy get it?........ im not saying you and your sun are slow in any way or form just that some of these racers even local racers are just sooo fast and run these bikes sooo hard they need the overly rich jetting that these bikes come with just so they dont blow them up first time out. :eek:
04 CR 125 Suggestion!
Hey try a different oil! Although you need to adjust your jetting I have found that even a bike running jetted rich fouls less plugs using a good oil! Maxima 927 is the perfect place to start! I think you'll want to mix @ 32:1 and a ratio rite cup is handy to have. Your bike is not junk by far and granted by not re jetting you'll have fouling problems! Run 92 or < fuel and do try the maxima 927! You will notice improvements and hell it will even smell better! Get rid of the gas in your tank and start with a fresh tank with what I suggested. Adjust your needle 1 notch leaner for starters before going one jet size leaner. Welcome to the world of two-stroke jetting... :)
Hey try a different oil! Although you need to adjust your jetting I have found that even a bike running jetted rich fouls less plugs using a good oil! Maxima 927 is the perfect place to start! I think you'll want to mix @ 32:1 and a ratio rite cup is handy to have. Your bike is not junk by far and granted by not re jetting you'll have fouling problems! Run 92 or < fuel and do try the maxima 927! You will notice improvements and hell it will even smell better! Get rid of the gas in your tank and start with a fresh tank with what I suggested. Adjust your needle 1 notch leaner for starters before going one jet size leaner. Welcome to the world of two-stroke jetting... :)
Yes , or send the cr to me , Im sure my son would appreciate it over the 01 , hes got now.....Sometimes I wish people would remember that the diehard 125 experts statements about this years CR or whatever bike being a real dog ,will still permit the more ordinary rider to have lots of fun on the same bike......
Watch out my bike throws very large rocks and sometimes bricks! Objects fly and the rate of 1 yard per cc so stay back at least 500 yards or duck! Sticks and Stones may breaks some bones "but you'll never be able to catch me"!!! :laugh:
Sorry the :p made me do it! :laugh:
Sorry the :p made me do it! :laugh:
SpectraSVT
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- Apr 17, 2002
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Although I agree that race bikes are finnicky I also would be just as pissed as Ronm is if my brand new bike didn't run right. I have never fouled a plug with my 03 YZ250...not even once. I have never touched the jetting except when I put on a PC pipe and I used their recommendations. I do idle the bike for long periods of time occasionally because my wife is slow and just learning how to ride so i have to wait for her alot. I don't change the jetting for hot weather or cold weather. The only time I have ever noticed that jetting needed to be done was when i raced in 110 degree weather. But it never fouled a plug. This is what I expect of a dirtbike and I don't think anyone should accept less. My friends are not jetting guru's and they don't foul plugs either. All of us are at the beginner level as far as racing goes. I don't think my story is unique.
MikeT
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- Jan 17, 2001
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I understand ronms frustration. Look at itlike this though. If Honda had to jet bikes differently for each state what would happen if someone bought a bike jetted for a high altitude and took it for his firat ride at a low altitude? He'd go out and seize it in 5 minutes. Honda would then have to put a totally new engine in it which is far more costly than a plug. They would rather give you some spare jets (which they did) and let you jet the bike to work where you intend to ride it.
Also, remember when you jet it right for where you ride, you will gain mucho power over the poor slug next to you on the line who is running the stock jetting. :thumb:
Also, remember when you jet it right for where you ride, you will gain mucho power over the poor slug next to you on the line who is running the stock jetting. :thumb:
ben.handasyde
Member
- Jan 28, 2004
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thats so very true
I don't think jetting would be much different between a pro and Joe rider. In both cases you would want it lean enough to run cleanly, but not lean enough to cause problems. Using the proper race fuel may not change the fouling situation, but it will give peace of mind that the jetting can be on the lean side without fear of pinging.
A properly jetting bike should be able to idle for a minute or two with no problems, once it's warmed up! The people saying otherwise probably have a rich pilot circuit. I've seen two strokes that could probably idle their way through a tank of gas without fouling a plug!
However, I have had problems with some bikes idling when cold. Don't feel like you have to sit in the parking lot warming up the bike for 5 minutes. You'll have better luck just letting it run for only 30 sec to 1 min., and GENTLY riding the bike, progressively riding it harder as it warms up. This won't hurt it and you will foul fewer plugs. If you idle in the parking lot for 5 minutes, because the engine is cold, premix oil condenses and builds up in the lower end. Then when you finally get out and crank on it, the oil comes up top and fouls the plug.
Moving the pilot jet one size may not have been enough...on these carbs, one size is a negligible change.
A properly jetting bike should be able to idle for a minute or two with no problems, once it's warmed up! The people saying otherwise probably have a rich pilot circuit. I've seen two strokes that could probably idle their way through a tank of gas without fouling a plug!
However, I have had problems with some bikes idling when cold. Don't feel like you have to sit in the parking lot warming up the bike for 5 minutes. You'll have better luck just letting it run for only 30 sec to 1 min., and GENTLY riding the bike, progressively riding it harder as it warms up. This won't hurt it and you will foul fewer plugs. If you idle in the parking lot for 5 minutes, because the engine is cold, premix oil condenses and builds up in the lower end. Then when you finally get out and crank on it, the oil comes up top and fouls the plug.
Moving the pilot jet one size may not have been enough...on these carbs, one size is a negligible change.
As far as I know all moto-x bikes are built in japan. I think it would be almost impossible for them to jet it 100% from the factory for all the different riding conditions around the world. I dont think the problem is with the Honda. Maybe you should rather spend some time getting the bike setup. I have owned a Honda 125 and 250's and I have yet to get one straight from the factory that is setup 100% for our conditions (sea level) here in South Africa.
Be patient and keep us informed.
Be patient and keep us informed.
orton jackson
Member
- Apr 12, 2004
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:p Factory oil ratio eh. I,ve been racing and trail riding cr125s for 14 years and havent had a problem with fouling plugs. heres what i do, I run silkolene comp 2 plus sx low smoke 100% synthetic oil at a ratio of 40:1 with av-gas 100 octane fuel. I run a ngk B9EVX spark plug(check your heat range with the manual tho) as the very fine electrode tip resists fouling. I put a new plug in at every piston change and usually one inbetween to keep it crisp,I dont re use plugs as the ceramic becomes contaminated and conductive so the plug will break down under load. iI buy my plugs from an auto sparky shop in a box of 4, its alot cheaper than the local bikeshops. I clean my air filter between each ride starting with kero to loosen the oil then dish detergent then rinse under tap, dry then apply motul airfliter oil sqeezing out the exess. I do 150km trail rides almost every weekend and my cr125 always has a dry tail pipe. I ride quite hard out tho. keep an eye on your reids to check them when you do a piston. show no mercy&keep the thing screeming.OJ.
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Avgas is not a great choice for a high-revving 125, and has no properties to resist fouling. I wouldnt advise it at all for modern motorcycle.
And no, fine-wire electrode plugs do NOT resist fouling better than standard plugs. There is absolutely NO proof to back this up. In my experience, they seem to foul QUICKER (been riding 2-smokes for 20 years).
If your jetting is correct and you are running the right plug temp, the plug will keep itself clean. If the jetting is too rich and/or plug temp too cool, the plug will not get hot enough to self-clean, and ends up fouling. I have put OVER 10,000 km (6,000 miles) on my 2-stroke street-bike using the SAME PLUGS without them fouling. This bike is a v-twin 250 (each cylinder virtually identical to a CR125 cylinder).
Fouling plugs is a by-product of rich jetting. And just leaning out the Main jet will not fix it. You have to tune the whole range (airscrew, pilot jet, needle clip position, and main jet). THERE IS NO BOOK THAT CAN TELL YOU THE CORRECT JETTING SETTINGS. No two engines are identical, with identical carbs, perfectly identical jets, needles, etc. And humidity/temperature/altitude differences all have a LARGE effect on your jetting requirements. Once again, THERE IS NO BOOK THAT CAN TELL YOU THE CORRECT JETTING SETTINGS.
Here is what we use for GP: first of all, learn your bike. Annotate bike performance based on the weather and carb settings. Get yourself one of those "mini weather stations" that shows you all the good stuff (humidity/temp/barometric pressure). Once you find the best settings for each weather range, write it down on a reference chart. Compare your chart to your buddy, who has an "identical" bike, and you will notice your settings are not exactly the same. YES, THIS IS WHAT THE GUYS DO WHO PAY $16,000 ON A RACE BIKE!!
Or, you can pay someone else to do it if you are too lazy to learn/do it yourself. Sorry if this is harsh, but you purchased a bike that requires regular/constant maintenance and some tuning skills, even if it is BRAND NEW.
And no, fine-wire electrode plugs do NOT resist fouling better than standard plugs. There is absolutely NO proof to back this up. In my experience, they seem to foul QUICKER (been riding 2-smokes for 20 years).
If your jetting is correct and you are running the right plug temp, the plug will keep itself clean. If the jetting is too rich and/or plug temp too cool, the plug will not get hot enough to self-clean, and ends up fouling. I have put OVER 10,000 km (6,000 miles) on my 2-stroke street-bike using the SAME PLUGS without them fouling. This bike is a v-twin 250 (each cylinder virtually identical to a CR125 cylinder).
Fouling plugs is a by-product of rich jetting. And just leaning out the Main jet will not fix it. You have to tune the whole range (airscrew, pilot jet, needle clip position, and main jet). THERE IS NO BOOK THAT CAN TELL YOU THE CORRECT JETTING SETTINGS. No two engines are identical, with identical carbs, perfectly identical jets, needles, etc. And humidity/temperature/altitude differences all have a LARGE effect on your jetting requirements. Once again, THERE IS NO BOOK THAT CAN TELL YOU THE CORRECT JETTING SETTINGS.
Here is what we use for GP: first of all, learn your bike. Annotate bike performance based on the weather and carb settings. Get yourself one of those "mini weather stations" that shows you all the good stuff (humidity/temp/barometric pressure). Once you find the best settings for each weather range, write it down on a reference chart. Compare your chart to your buddy, who has an "identical" bike, and you will notice your settings are not exactly the same. YES, THIS IS WHAT THE GUYS DO WHO PAY $16,000 ON A RACE BIKE!!
Or, you can pay someone else to do it if you are too lazy to learn/do it yourself. Sorry if this is harsh, but you purchased a bike that requires regular/constant maintenance and some tuning skills, even if it is BRAND NEW.
ronm said:
I'm not sure if you've looked at the maintenance schedule yet for your purchase but given the above quote you bought the wrong model of bike. Buying a 2 stroke 125cc race bike and planning to not have to wrench on it are sure signs of a thread a year from now about how you can't beleive this junk Honda had it's piston skirt shatter and destroy your engine. An XR line of bike would have made a much better choice for your expectations.
Whether they race the bike or not the maintenace and tuning requirements will still be the same because this bike is a race model regardless of how you intend to use it.
I understand your frustration as our new 03 RM125 came jetted so rich it would barely run never mind idle with stock jetting. However the manufacturers can not jet these models for each area it's going to be delivered to and simply jet them to safe specs for the most extreme end to keep them from blowing up.
- Thread starter
- #44
Again you are missing the whole point. I am not opposed to maintenance, and honestly if I can't trust the jetting table, then hypothetically why should I trust the Maintenance schedule. I am not opposed to the maintenance, or turning. The XR line would not be right for us because those types of bikes do not offer the suspension or durability for the type of riding we do. Just because we dont' race doesn't mean we don't ride them hard. Trust me, the XR line could not handle what we throw at it for very long. You should think twice before recommending a line of bikes when you don't know how it will be used.
The bottom line and the reason for my post is that if I live and ride in an area with the same atmospheric conditions as prescribed by Honda as matching the stock setup, technically I should not have to do anything for the bike to run and not foul plugs. Second point is I have a 98 CR250 that is rock solid and I never have to do anything to it. It cranks and runs everytime, all day long.
My point is that Honda is certainly capable of providing better information regarding proper jetting because the information in the manual is certainly all wrong. I mean how hard would it be to provide a break-in table and another after break in table. After all there is no warranty on the bike so what do they have to loose.
Ron
The bottom line and the reason for my post is that if I live and ride in an area with the same atmospheric conditions as prescribed by Honda as matching the stock setup, technically I should not have to do anything for the bike to run and not foul plugs. Second point is I have a 98 CR250 that is rock solid and I never have to do anything to it. It cranks and runs everytime, all day long.
My point is that Honda is certainly capable of providing better information regarding proper jetting because the information in the manual is certainly all wrong. I mean how hard would it be to provide a break-in table and another after break in table. After all there is no warranty on the bike so what do they have to loose.
Ron
.
This is only true if you ride the bike as hard as they think is possible. Riding style is every bit as important as atmospheric conditions. They can either jet them so some people will foul plugs without rejetting or where some people will blow up their engines without rejetting. Not a very tough decision.
Take up that sales guy on his offer. Hopefully you all will enjoy it after you get things worked out.
Good luck,
Wes
bclapham
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ronm said:
dude, quit whining. every state in the US has different gas specs, the difference in carburettion properties is massive from fuel to fuel. then the most big thing is rider to rider- i would bet if you put a pro on that bike it wouldnt foul plugs. then figure oil, track conditions etc etc. if the bike is jetted properly on a hard pack track it will sieze up on a sand track.
its time to re think- your bike doesnt run well, you can either:
1 keep on bitching that honda is at fault
or 2. you can learn how to tune it.
if you want to select #1, go somewhere else to whine since its annoying.
or if you want to select # 2, just like most people that visit this site do, then there are plenty of us that are more than happy to help.
sorry if that sounds harsh, but bitching and whining is annoying.
- Thread starter
- #47
Dude, no one is bitching and whining and you should never assume this bike is not being ridden as intended. Again all I said is we do not race!
Then again it is much easier to blame the end user than to expect more out from the manufacturers'.
If my posts are annoying to you because I point out shortcomings, then hey, change the channel! Since when is expecting a product to work as indicated in all factory published information bitching and whining. I bet you would change your tune if the power button on your pc did somehting other than it was intended to do.
Ron
Then again it is much easier to blame the end user than to expect more out from the manufacturers'.
If my posts are annoying to you because I point out shortcomings, then hey, change the channel! Since when is expecting a product to work as indicated in all factory published information bitching and whining. I bet you would change your tune if the power button on your pc did somehting other than it was intended to do.
Ron
bclapham
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ronm said:
well if it did, i suppose i could cry about it all day or i could use my own initiative and fix it.
so i ask you the question, are you at this site just to moan about the bike fouling plugs, or do you actually want to find out how to fix the problems?
like i said before, if you want help, we are here to help. if you want to keep on nagging at how honda sold you a duff bike then dont worry about me turning off the channel since i dont suppose this thread will be allowed to go much further.
by-the-way, are you in training to be someones mother-in-law????
- Thread starter
- #50
Yes thats it, I am in training to be someone mother-in-law. It would actually be quite nice if the admin killed this thread, then I would not have to read idiot reponses such as yours because you are too busy sucking on the tit of Honda and the others. Besides if you are old enough to ride, you should probably stop breast feeding.
The main point, which if you took their tit out of you mouth, is I was not moaning about fouling plugs but rather bringing the the table a very simple point that apparently your are still incapable or unwilling to accept so I won't waste anymore time on it.
Thing is, none of my posts until know have been personal so I really hope the admin kills this thread, at least maybe you could get back to the breast feeding and I could get technically correct documents written.
The main point, which if you took their tit out of you mouth, is I was not moaning about fouling plugs but rather bringing the the table a very simple point that apparently your are still incapable or unwilling to accept so I won't waste anymore time on it.
Thing is, none of my posts until know have been personal so I really hope the admin kills this thread, at least maybe you could get back to the breast feeding and I could get technically correct documents written.
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