I keep hearing about this "attitude"
- Thread starter Okiewan
- Start date
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,510
- 19
seriously, I blame it on the fact that some of us do spend more time on here than others, and the bunch of us that do the chat. Plus (I know this first hand now) when you meet people at DirtWeek, you have a different sense of people, and friendships are made, and you act different on the boards.
Plus, I think there is little tolerance for whining, especially when it comes from people who think everything on the net should be free.
Plus, I think there is little tolerance for whining, especially when it comes from people who think everything on the net should be free.
Senior KX Rider
Super Power AssClown
- Nov 9, 1999
- 8,577
- 0
Some times my wife says I have an attitude :confused: Not sure what she means :laugh: I havent noticed things being different here
firecracker22
Sponsoring Member
- Oct 23, 2000
- 3,217
- 0
I'll be honest--I think a lot of people see an "in crowd" and resent it. It's not really a bad thing, it's just human nature in any gathering or crowd or whatever. And some of us do spend more time on DRN than others, and therefore get to know others better and hear all the inside jokes. I haven't been around as much as I used to just due to my job etc. but that's ok, I've gotten to know a lot of cool people on here. It's been great fun.
And of course there's some friction between some members, that's also normal due to human nature.
I also think that non-members, lurkers or new subscribers think there is a lot of pandering to our sponsors. It's true that sometimes we tend to be blindly loyal but it doesn't get out of hand too much. Newbies or non-joiners don't realize how much the sponsors do for DRN, so they think that we kiss up.
Don't forget how many of us have grown with DRN so imagine how different it would be if you joined now, instead of back when it was small. It's been 3 years for me, and even then--which was not the beginning--there were not nearly so many members, sponsors or benefits.
And of course there's some friction between some members, that's also normal due to human nature.
I also think that non-members, lurkers or new subscribers think there is a lot of pandering to our sponsors. It's true that sometimes we tend to be blindly loyal but it doesn't get out of hand too much. Newbies or non-joiners don't realize how much the sponsors do for DRN, so they think that we kiss up.
Don't forget how many of us have grown with DRN so imagine how different it would be if you joined now, instead of back when it was small. It's been 3 years for me, and even then--which was not the beginning--there were not nearly so many members, sponsors or benefits.
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
- 7,980
- 249
FC22 hit the nail on the head. It is a perspective that a lot of outsiders do not understand. Most of us do not see it b/c we see all the good and all the good people that we ride with or communicate with on a regular basis.
All the newbies want to be "part of the crowd" and some become that b/c their personality matches but others get insecure about it and get a sour grapes attitude b/c it is easier to gripe than show others who you are.
Any time you have a group of people together you are going to have others who think that there is an "in crowd" type of thing. It's like the guys I ride with. Outsiders might think that we have an "in crowd" but do not realize that to be part of the crowd all you have to do is introduce yourself, ride with us and have a good time. The personalities of our group are quite diverse but we all get along. However, if someone doesn't introduce themself or does and then gets insecure b/c they don't get some inside joke or something then they do not seem to stay a part of the group and make comments about it.
I am not really sure if I'm describing it correctly but I do understand what they are saying but at the same time I say it is their loss and you can't worry about pleasing everyone b/c life is too short to worry about the whiners.
Ivan
When you join an established group, you can't expect to understand all the shared history, or be treated as one of the long-time members immediately.
Some people do, or even expect the group to change to fit them. I have stumbled on to several BB's, (how many others are out there I don't know), and they all have different personalities (thank goodness!) Some people don't consider the time, energy, and money that are required to run a BB.
I don't have insider knowledge of this board, but I have seen the effort put out by Okie and his family and the mods at DW, and they have more than earned the right to do things as they want.
Some people do, or even expect the group to change to fit them. I have stumbled on to several BB's, (how many others are out there I don't know), and they all have different personalities (thank goodness!) Some people don't consider the time, energy, and money that are required to run a BB.
I don't have insider knowledge of this board, but I have seen the effort put out by Okie and his family and the mods at DW, and they have more than earned the right to do things as they want.
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,774
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Screw 'em we don't have an attitude! :)
I agree with the suggestions that it's just a combination of things including shared history, actually knowing each other, and "outsiders" being more accustomed to the more sterile environment offered at other places. I doubt there are many sites where a major portion of the core group actually get together, call each other, send Christmas cards and that type of thing. We're different and that is intimidating to some people, granted some of us are a little more different than others but that's the idea :confused:
I agree with the suggestions that it's just a combination of things including shared history, actually knowing each other, and "outsiders" being more accustomed to the more sterile environment offered at other places. I doubt there are many sites where a major portion of the core group actually get together, call each other, send Christmas cards and that type of thing. We're different and that is intimidating to some people, granted some of us are a little more different than others but that's the idea :confused:
- Apr 17, 2002
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'Loyalty', at times, can bring out a defensive behavior in the regulars (I'm guilty of it) when someone shows a little negativity... ex: badmouthing the site because they didn't get what they thought they deserved. Defensive behavior can appear as attitude since the 'target' of the behavior usually isn't familiar with the personalities. It happens with any forum you go to, not just DRN. Does that make it right? No, not really, but the reality is it's human nature... IE that's life.
- Oct 20, 2000
- 2,969
- 2
It's all Rich's fault! He hasn't been on top of things like he used to. :p
It's funny how some of the "newbies" can come in, post in the wrong forum, not follow the rules in the faq's and bitch about everything, then there are others, like Mad Earth Worm that can join and immediately "fit in". Looking at the big picture I don't see much difference than when DRN was small if you look at it in perspective. I bet percentage wise there is no, or less of a difference in "attitudes."
It's funny how some of the "newbies" can come in, post in the wrong forum, not follow the rules in the faq's and bitch about everything, then there are others, like Mad Earth Worm that can join and immediately "fit in". Looking at the big picture I don't see much difference than when DRN was small if you look at it in perspective. I bet percentage wise there is no, or less of a difference in "attitudes."
- Jun 9, 2002
- 9,535
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I'm back after reading the other thread ... I think Pat hit the nail on the head there and FC did here. We all know many members here and that makes a difference in the way we converse with each other. I don't go into chat as I know I would get nothing done if I did :confused: so I can't comment on how that has affected the traffic on the site.
I remember being intimidated when I first found the site. Deciding to go to DW 02 without knowing a soul seemed crazy to many of my friends, but I trusted that a bunch of dirt riders would be fun.
What is funny to me is when I start dicussing Jenny's wreck with Gene (tx246) and he looks at me blankly. I forget sometimes who are STMs and who are not. Basically I assume everyone is. This has happens a number of times. If this feels like a "club" it might be because in a way it is. I don't make any apologies and don't intend to as the hurdle is very small to become an STM.
rockrider made some similar statements last winter as well (if I remember correctly) and wasn't it about this time last year that we all began to pile on everyone that didn't want to pay to play? :p Maybe some of it is a downer following the holidays, dunnoh ...
Every now and again I drop an email to various members across the sea. I bet marcus deleted my "Merry Christmas" thinking it was spam. :laugh: Michelle and I trade emails every month or so. I'm sure it is hard to feel a part of something when you are off in the corner.
I remember being intimidated when I first found the site. Deciding to go to DW 02 without knowing a soul seemed crazy to many of my friends, but I trusted that a bunch of dirt riders would be fun.
What is funny to me is when I start dicussing Jenny's wreck with Gene (tx246) and he looks at me blankly. I forget sometimes who are STMs and who are not. Basically I assume everyone is. This has happens a number of times. If this feels like a "club" it might be because in a way it is. I don't make any apologies and don't intend to as the hurdle is very small to become an STM.
rockrider made some similar statements last winter as well (if I remember correctly) and wasn't it about this time last year that we all began to pile on everyone that didn't want to pay to play? :p Maybe some of it is a downer following the holidays, dunnoh ...
Every now and again I drop an email to various members across the sea. I bet marcus deleted my "Merry Christmas" thinking it was spam. :laugh: Michelle and I trade emails every month or so. I'm sure it is hard to feel a part of something when you are off in the corner.
- Feb 9, 2000
- 2,450
- 2
rockrider has a point, before membership it was a free for all, now those who contribute, definitely have a protective attitude about the site, which reflects what in life a real club is about. That we have free membership as well makes it a unique situation, and may contribute to a schism of sorts. As Tony stated, even if this is the case, I make no apologies, when I get together with my riding buddies, DRN membership is not an issue.
Maybe the real issue is that most people who have been DRN members for a long time may feel an obligation to subscribe, and the issue is with them when they do not. As a long time member it is really a non issue to me - maybe cause I get all the goodies associated with membership, so for me, life is good ! ;)
Maybe the real issue is that most people who have been DRN members for a long time may feel an obligation to subscribe, and the issue is with them when they do not. As a long time member it is really a non issue to me - maybe cause I get all the goodies associated with membership, so for me, life is good ! ;)
- Jun 9, 2002
- 9,535
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Sooooo .... I guess that means that you use square tubing to fill your test tubes ?!?!?!? :laugh:
BB is right, riding buddies are just that. I don't play favorites, anybody is welcome to laugh at me and pull my bike off of me when I fall.
I did "spread the word" about DRN to two fellow there that were not members. I also passed out my "official" DRN NTSP business cards to everyone before they left Muenster on Thursday.
Thanks Smit-Dog for the idea. :thumb:
Lorin probably thought I was being dorky. :moon:
Okie: the link in my sig line to join still shows the free trial as an option and the subscription cost as $12.00
I also noticed the majority of my posts are in this forum. Maybe we should try and post more in the subscribers forum. Dan's comments about being sick on Christmas Day being an example.
Keep this forum for discussions like this kinda like the mods forum, when they talk about us :laugh:
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- Jul 3, 1999
- 2,726
- 1
I don't know that it has changed, I joined in July '99 (back before the turn of the century :silly: ) and you guys picked on me too :| Not really, but it did take awhile to figure out some personaliies. ;) I wouldn't worry about it, it is a great place and that will come through. You can't please everybody, but do you really want to?
Kevin
Kevin
Ol'89r
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 27, 2000
- 6,961
- 45
Damn the chat. :scream: I tried checking out the chat room for a while but, my phone starts ringing pretty early in the morning and by the time I answer the phone and get back to chat, I've lost my place. I have enough trouble paying attention without the phone interuptions much less with. :confused:
I did notice that a lot of good posters spend their time in there.
I came here four years ago this month. I was looking for some people to ride with. Most of my riding buddies were on to other things or had become too old, (in their words) to ride any more. I was new to this internet thing and saw DRN as a different kind of site. Seemed like a fairly adult kind of site compared to the other ones that I checked out. Most of the other ones had a bunch of kids screaming and cussing at each other. Not my kinda place.
I asked, "Anyone in So. California want to go riding?"
Well, be careful what you ask for. :eek: Now, I have over 30 riding buddies and have been on many, many group rides all over So. Cal. The biggest problem is finding the time to do all of the rides.
I have formed some very good personal freindships through this site and I think this is what seperates us from most of the other sites. We actually know each other and ride with each other. Have yet to make it to Dirt Week only because of work and scheduling difficulties. Maybe next year?
I feel another problem may be that some people take what we say much to seriously. We laugh and joke and bag on each other like the friends that we are. I am rarely serious about anything unless I am talking about land issues or fixing a bike. The rest of the time its just 'tongue in cheek' and I try to show that by using the little smiley faces.
We are able to talk about things that just won't fly on other sites. Politics, personalities, life and death struggles, just like a real family. Seems like a lot of people use the internet to vent their anger. They come here looking for trouble and get shut down pretty quickly. That just pisses em off worse.
To me it's all good fun and whatever Okie and the mod's are doing to keep it this way is working.
Oh, yea and Elk is still a putz. :moon: :laugh:
Ol'89r
i'll try to help anyone if I feel I can, but...
am I prejudiced towards people I know and people I have met at Dirtweek? Do I go that extra mile for them, maybe type a more detailed response to their question?
Yes.
And i'm sure many others do the same. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's human nature.
DRN is getting very big. Sorta like a big house. In order to make that big house feel cozy, you would need to put up some walls, maybe even isolating yourself into a small corner, i.e. the "clique".
If some of us are being rude to new members, shame on us. If the complaint is just a result of many of us already having more "friends" on here than we can even keep track of (i'm there already), and not going out of our way to meet new people....sorry, that's just natural. If that's the case, the people complaining need to just hang around for a bit, don't be impatient, they will fit in soon enough. Another way to speed along the process of fitting in is to attend Dirtweek or one of the smaller events.
am I prejudiced towards people I know and people I have met at Dirtweek? Do I go that extra mile for them, maybe type a more detailed response to their question?
Yes.
And i'm sure many others do the same. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's human nature.
DRN is getting very big. Sorta like a big house. In order to make that big house feel cozy, you would need to put up some walls, maybe even isolating yourself into a small corner, i.e. the "clique".
If some of us are being rude to new members, shame on us. If the complaint is just a result of many of us already having more "friends" on here than we can even keep track of (i'm there already), and not going out of our way to meet new people....sorry, that's just natural. If that's the case, the people complaining need to just hang around for a bit, don't be impatient, they will fit in soon enough. Another way to speed along the process of fitting in is to attend Dirtweek or one of the smaller events.
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One thing that I've noticed, is some topics are repeated over, and over, and over, and over. So the new guy asking the question might not get the best response from those of us who have seen the topic come up before. That might give the wrong impression to new members who have finally worked up the courage to make their first post.
And then there is chat. Since chat, I rarely post in the public forums. Instead of having a discussion on the board, I can have the same discussion(private messaging and all) in a fraction of the time.
And then there is chat. Since chat, I rarely post in the public forums. Instead of having a discussion on the board, I can have the same discussion(private messaging and all) in a fraction of the time.
nikki
Moto Junkie
- Apr 21, 2000
- 5,802
- 1
I'm just throwing out ideas here... no offense to DRN or the gang as I think this place rocks.... just looking through the eyes of someone who may have mentioned the DRN "attitude"...
I think you guys are on track with the "in crowd" theory, but relationships like that are bound to develop with you spend a week with someone at DirtWeek or a weekend with someone at Reno or hours a week chattin it up in chat or hours posting and PM'ing Support Team members.... etc. I don't see it as a bad thing at all - in fact I think it's great because we've met some awesome dirt lovers and freinds from this site and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
But to a newer or not as involved member, it may be seen as intimidating or they may not feel that their comments and opinions and replies are as valued and important and respected as the "avatar" members. And I'm sure this isn't the best feeling.
Think back to high school when you walked up to the jocks and said "nice game last night" and they threw you in a garbage can. :moon:
Also, I think there is a lot of bandwagon activity on DRN that some people don't agree with. And when someone comes along with an "against the crowd" opinion, they are quickly attacked or teased or ganged up on by the "avatar" members and that's not cool either. Go back and look at some of the closed threads and you'll probably see a similar trend.
And we are also quick to jump on people who don't do things "right" around DRN. For example, if someone posts twice (because they didn't know which was the better spot to post), or if someone posts a question that was discussed in the past (and they didn't know there was a search function or they weren't able to find what they wanted with the search), or they ask something basic and feel that they get teased or belittled, etc....
I think you guys are on track with the "in crowd" theory, but relationships like that are bound to develop with you spend a week with someone at DirtWeek or a weekend with someone at Reno or hours a week chattin it up in chat or hours posting and PM'ing Support Team members.... etc. I don't see it as a bad thing at all - in fact I think it's great because we've met some awesome dirt lovers and freinds from this site and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
But to a newer or not as involved member, it may be seen as intimidating or they may not feel that their comments and opinions and replies are as valued and important and respected as the "avatar" members. And I'm sure this isn't the best feeling.
Think back to high school when you walked up to the jocks and said "nice game last night" and they threw you in a garbage can. :moon:
Also, I think there is a lot of bandwagon activity on DRN that some people don't agree with. And when someone comes along with an "against the crowd" opinion, they are quickly attacked or teased or ganged up on by the "avatar" members and that's not cool either. Go back and look at some of the closed threads and you'll probably see a similar trend.
And we are also quick to jump on people who don't do things "right" around DRN. For example, if someone posts twice (because they didn't know which was the better spot to post), or if someone posts a question that was discussed in the past (and they didn't know there was a search function or they weren't able to find what they wanted with the search), or they ask something basic and feel that they get teased or belittled, etc....
- Oct 20, 2000
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They are either with us or against us. If against, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! :laugh:
- Jan 8, 2000
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Well if DRN has an attitude, I like it. Otherwise I wouldn't spend hours upon hours every week checking the forums and chatting with its members. The hardcore DRNer’s are people whom I want to associate with, folks who love dirtbikes and have an enormous joy for an active life.
That’s definitely an attitude that I like.
That’s definitely an attitude that I like.
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firecracker22
Sponsoring Member
- Oct 23, 2000
- 3,217
- 0
I think Nikki's right about how quickly we can jump on new members who don't know the rules, or even just the etiquette, yet. We might have heard the same question a hundred times but they haven't. Also, if a post gets closed, sometimes the reason why may sound a little curt. Not because it was meant that way--there are a hundred things for mods to check up on and no time to make sure no one gets their panties in a bunch--but it can sound fairly cold or even rude.
Maybe we all can watch for that kind of thing and possibly explain why to new members, using softer words that the mods don't have time for, when that does happen?
I know we can all be over-protective about DRN and also of Okie's actions and decisions, which contributes to the "bandwagon" thing Nikki mentioned. I do think sometimes we should be less defensive towards new members, at least until after they've spent enough time here to learn better.
Maybe we all can watch for that kind of thing and possibly explain why to new members, using softer words that the mods don't have time for, when that does happen?
I know we can all be over-protective about DRN and also of Okie's actions and decisions, which contributes to the "bandwagon" thing Nikki mentioned. I do think sometimes we should be less defensive towards new members, at least until after they've spent enough time here to learn better.
- Jun 9, 2002
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I have been sitting here musing on exactly what FC posted. I can only imagine how sick and tired the mods must get steering someone to the correct part of the site or telling them to use search ... I'm fairly certain that some people would not use search even if it was in 24 point bold across the top of the page.
What might help is a group of us (Ambassadors if you will) willing to take the time to answer the questions, add search links, whatever. Some folks (like Madearthworm) hit the site and haven't looked back. Others stumble. The first post is always the worst, getting shot down only makes magnifies the fear. Some folks are dorks and will never figure it out, some are worth the time. MEW caught a bunch of us willing to read his first post and try and help. I imagine he would tell you that it made the second thread easier. He even came back to the site after meeting Gomer ... :laugh:
Another thought ... Add a forum for that all important first post, where no one gets shot down for posting in the wrong place. If a person has a bunch of posts, then shut them down and tell them to go to the correct part of the site, otherwise just answer the post and go on.
We could also start a thread there where we all introduce ourselves. I was fasinated reading the thread about Rich. Something about Okie, Thumb, Billy, Dr D., Eric, etc. would be great IMHO.
Back to an earlier point, many of our STM threads could be in the Subscribers Forum and thereby let the subscribers in on "some" of the fun. Maybe some of the mods should be heavy handed to us, so the rest of the folks don't feel singled out. I still chuckle at the thought of the way GSR handled all the guys in one particular thread, deleting post after post ... :laugh:
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