2002 wr426 yamaha- no e- start, waaa!!!!

[Nverfastenuf]

Re: Starting 4 Strokes

Originally posted by Sierra Flash
----The bottom line, there is no way you can restart the Yamaha as fast or with as little effort as you can the E start KTM. My O2.--
_______________________________________________________________

Well the Suzuki factory off road team answered this question by saying the kick start is faster than E start and therefore none of them run the E start.

Reads RESTART!!! You are correct in the statement that you can start the bikes as fast or faster on the initial start up, but flame out and see what happens!!!! On a dead engine start, my 520 can be kickstarted as fast or faster than with the E button, but I will tell you from experience , and I dont care who the rider is, if the bike flames out,which I agree shouldnt happen, but IT CAN, you will not get the bike running as fast as the E button will. :think :D

 

[JasonJ]

Yeah, I conceed that E start thumpers are the wave of trail bikes to come, but any of us that came up riding 2 stroke MX bikes have been kicking since before our heads were big enough to fill a helmet. I imagine that once we ride the likes of a KTM you wont be able to pry the button from our cold dead handel bars, but I still do not consider the kick start a disadvantage. I did have a flame out at the tip top of a BIG soft coal silt hill climb on my first ride on the WR 400. I had to lay the bike down, climb up onto it, reach over to the down side and hit the decomp and kick while standing on the right side of the bike. After I was running, I had to pick her up and push over the top of the hill. It was hot and I was whooped, So I went back to the truck and squared the carb issues away, moved the decomp lever to the right side, and bumped the idel up a few notches and made sure not to stall anymore.

 

[Sierra Flash]

Restarting

Reads RESTART!!! You are correct in the statement that you can start the bikes as fast or faster on the initial start up, but flame out and see what happens!!!! On a dead engine start, my 520 can be kickstarted as fast or faster than with the E button, but I will tell you from experience , and I dont care who the rider is, if the bike flames out,which I agree shouldnt happen, but IT CAN, you will not get the bike running as fast as the E button will.

______________________________________________________________

You are correct on the restarting however just knowing how much energy can be spent restarting has made me a much better rider. I make sure I that I climb that hill, get around those stalled out riders, ride with one finger on the clutch lever run my idle where it should be. But most important I use the front brake with just a drag on the rear this has made me much quicker, and less apt to stall her in a corner.

 

[biglou]

I can agree with being able to kick it initially faster than cranking it. There is a bit of a lag while it turns over a couple of revolutions before it fires.
I've actually had two different occaisions so far where I have stalled my bike and then restarted without ever taking my feet off of the pegs. One of those times was just this past Friday evening. Of course, I did also manage to stall it out on take off on perfectly smooth, level ground and fall forward and sideways right onto my face in front of three other riders. "What the He** was that?" someone asked. :scream:
"Gravity check" someone else added.:o

Gravity: It's not just a good idea. It's the law.

 

[JasonJ]

Yup, I did something kinda like that on my first WR ride. I went to do a hard right had foot down turn and just in the thick of it the bike shut off and thud! Right in front of everyone. As it turned out the bike had a remote hot start mounted on the bar and I must have not noticed when I took the tank off the bike before that it was routed above the tank mount not below, so when cranked the bars to the right it pulled the hot start bypass on :eek: . Did that once with a throttle cable and launched the bike into a stream while trying to turn around.

 

[slowmo]

Electric Start???!!!!

You off-road types are the scourge of the dirt bike community. You are never happy until you've loaded your bike with a larger tank, heavier o-ring chain, heavier 18-inch wheel, kickstand, flywheel weight, lunar module-sized skid plate, handguards, pipe guard, brake snake, disc fin, radiator guards, master cylinder guards, little fork seal booties, spare gas tanks, coolant overflow tanks, spark arrestors, lights, odometer, maps, etc. What have I neglected?

Now you want an electric starter on a dirt bike. You guys will not be happy until you have air conditioning, CD changers and an autoflush port-a-john installed on your ironbutt-prepared, "I can ride for 15,000 miles without stopping" lazyboy. As soon as a manufacturer does add e-start, you'll immediately ask for advice on how to replace the little ni-cad battery with a commercial generator in order to better power your additional accessories.

Like many others, I can't count the number of articles / ads I've read that illustrate how to spend $4,000 to remove a measly 4lbs from my 250lb YZ426. And you want to add 12 - 15 lbs because you are unwilling to honestly learn how to reliably start one of these magnificent beasts?

By all means, go ahead and get your precious little button. However, let's keep e-starters limited to OEM couches (i.e. DRZ's) and aftermarket catalogs (FatBoys.com). Please don't confuse wonderful manufacturers like Yamaha and Honda by asking for e-starters as standard equipment on racing bikes. Don't detune one of the last affordable, racing vehicles that are available to those of us who are true enthusiasts.

By the way, this topic clears up some prior confusion I had. I had recently noticed a MotoWorld.com poll on the alltime favorite bike movie. Early voting indicated that the classic "On Any Sunday" was trailing behind Disney's childish "Motocrossed". I couldn't understand that result. Now I do.

Lastly XR600R, if you happen to be a woman, I apologize for the above insensitive comments and instead offer you a hearty congratulations for your willingness to ride a 426!

 

[Nverfastenuf]

I remember when people were bashing fuel injection on cars too!!!!:think :think Now try and buy a new car with a carb!!! Oh yea, the OEM 520KTMs are real COUCHES.:scream: :D

 

[ballistic]

Can i have mine with a lithium battery?
Anything new is a threat to some people. "the sky is falling!!" "were all gonna die".
Its not about being a purist, its about progress. Otherwise go back to drum brakes and air cooling.

"water cooling is for station wagons!" Right, Slowmo:D

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Originally posted by ballistic
Can i have mine with a lithium battery?
Anything new is a threat to some people. "the sky is falling!!" "were all gonna die".
Its not about being a purist, its about progress. Otherwise go back to drum brakes and air cooling.

"water cooling is for station wagons!" Right, Slowmo:D

Yea, and lets not forget to put the old hand crank back on the car!!:scream:

 

[BCR-Bob]

Slowmo, I assume that since you are so offended by technology that you currently ride a Triumph? BSA? (No offence towards any of the Vintage guys, I have the utmost respect for you)

 

[slowmo]

Never, bcr & ballistic,

Exactly where did I state that I was against technological progress? Which paragraph? Did I criticize disc brakes or water cooling?

I am 100% for technological progress that is consistent with the purpose of a racing bike. I just don't want Yamaha, etc. to waste their resources trying to add an option that is essentially a luxury item - especially given the weight concerns.

I want Yamaha to tap all currently available technology in order to bring us the lightest, most powerful, best suspended, most reliable / durable, and affordable race bike. I'd rather that they spend their resources determining whether the performance advantages of a 5-valve, twin-cam setup offset the lighter, less complicated structure of a unicam, 4-valve engine. I'd rather that they continue to test aluminum frames to see if we can gain the weight advantages without the harshness, etc. suffered by late-model CR's. I'd rather that they consider whether the weight gains offered by linkless rear designs offset the teething problems that KTM has battled the last few years. I'd rather they explore the ability to incorporate more metals such as titanium into production.

neverfastenuf, I came very close to buying a 520MXC in the last few months. Final decision against it was based on the existence of the e-starter. In principal, I cannot understand why KTM feels obligated to eliminate their weight advantage by providing the button especially given the outstanding reviews on the bike's ease of manual starting.

Maybe Ernesto Fonseca will move to KTM so that we can stop hearing him gripe about his inability to start his 250F.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Slowmo, I doubt Smets feels he is at a weight disadvantage with the electric start. His bike is electric start ONLY. The E start is a very real advantage when flaming out, yea Fonseca could restart a whole lot faster with the button. It is a technologic advancement that IS advantageous to the racing world. If Smets flames out in the final turn and has a 15 second lead on the next competitor, guess what, hit the button, and he's still going to win. If he has to kick start it, well, it may be a different story. Yes, I know you are not supposed to flame out, but everyone has, yes everyone. We are not picking on you, just making an observation, one which is definitely in the midst of a great deal of constroversy right now. Opinions, you know what they say, everybody has em, just some smell worse than others. :think :D

 

[BCR-Bob]

Slowmo, I can understand your reasons for wanting the companies to explore further technologies for the bikes. What I dont understand is if two bikes are relatively equal in weight, performance etc. what makes the bike with the button such a bad thing? Is it a disadvantage? You mention weight, well what if the bike with the button is at the AMA minimum?(I know, I know, this is hypothetical) Would you remove the starter and add weight? You state that adding a e-start is de-tuning the engine. How? Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha 4-strks are great bikes, period. Nobody can take anything away from what Yamaha has done. One other thing, dirt bikes are very personal things, and calling someones bike a couch is'nt very nice.

 

[Tiger]

Batteries on dirtbikes...

Hey guys,

Good points on the 4 strokes. It would seem like a trend from the overweight(gulp) 4 wheelers if you ask me. Heck, they even have automatics now too. We wouldn't want that now would we? I mean, it's one thing if KTM/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawie offers it as an option (kudos to Suzuki on doing that with their DRZ-E), but when I went looking for a new KTM E/XC or M/XC 4-Stroke...they all had electric starters! Doh! I'm thinking of getting the 400 SX 6 speed (only to have to put a bajadesigns light and a spark arrestor back on it for hare scrambles). It should be an option and then let the consumer decide in my opinion. Scary thing that consumer.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Hey, you are on to something here!!! If you could get the bike to hook up like a snowmobile???? NAH. Tiger, I have a new YZ 250, and guess what??? It's been staying in the trailer and the 520EXC has been getting all the attention lately. Don't knock the E start until you actually go out and ride one in the real world, not just around a dirt lot. It really is a very convenient feature. I had to eat crow about them!!!! :( (I owned a YZ426). Roost On.

 

[Tiger]

Lonely YZ 250...

Hey! It's always good to talk to someone considering the same craziness you are. LOL. So, let me ask you one question...did you consider the 400 EXC???

Thanks!

 

[BCR-Bob]

Slowmo, I read your profile and it adds creditably to your posts. You are not blinded by brand loyalty. If someone chooses to dislike a bike because it has an electric start, it is their opinion and should be respected. What I don't understand is how some folks act as if having a bike with the button is somehow not acceptable, or (as some people put it) a cop out. I agree that it is strange that KTM doesn't offer the EXC/MXC without the button, because it's obvious that some riders don't want it. I'm sure that doing that though would make the process of making the bikes a lot more complicated.

 

[mxbundy]

Yz 426 to 520 KTM

Hey neverfast,

Did you have a problem adjusting to the KTM after riding the YZ? I had a 97 300 EXC and I never got 100% confident with the way it handeled, I never got a consistent feel for the front wheel. One time through a corner it would stick fine but the next time it would push and slide. But I liked everything else about the bike. Just that my Yam`s are much more confidence inspireing.

later
mxbundy

 

[JasonJ]

Well either way how is the e start not an option, other than on E start only bikes? You can buy it when you buy the bike and take it off, or buy an aftermarket one for a Yamaha and bolt it on. If its a big deal to have E start on a Yamaha, then go pay like $800 and get an after market one. End of story. maybe for the manufacturer the best solution is a Suzki like modular rig. If you want e start bolt one one for an extra 250 bucks. If ya dont want it, how much dose the plate and 2 screws to cover the whole weigh?

I can feel for slomo and for the estart group too, but why dose it have to be one and not the other instead of one or the other or both?
Forget Startin it, How do you STOP IT????????

 

[slowmo]

Hey folks,

I fully agree that all are entitled to their opinions as well as preferences. I very much like the concept of keeping e-start as optional equipment. My original point was twofold:

1. Have a little fun with the off-road group. I recently purchased a KTM 250 with the intention of increasing my woods riding vs. MX and have been amused at the natural tendency one has to load up the converted MX bike with every add-on known to mankind. E-start is just one more item on the long list.

2. Address the original point of this topic. XR600 was unhappy that Yamaha did not add e-start for '02. Per the last comparison test I read, the WR426 was 8 lbs heavier than the KTM 520EXC. Furthermore, rumors of the CRF450 have it coming in at 17lbs lighter than the YZ426! I would strongly advise Yamaha against adding e-start given their weight issue. There is a substantial risk that the 426 line may quickly move towards the bottom of the barrel simply due to weight. Is it smart for Yamaha to give e-starters a high priority?

I don't buy your analogies of the e-starter to the introduction of water cooling, disc brakes, etc. I don't consider e-starters to be breakthrough technology for motorcycles. I also don't consider them as a significant advantage for racing. If they were a significant advantage, they would be more prevalent in the top-tiers of all forms of motor racing. Yes, there are some exceptions (Smets for 2001, Honda's VTR superbike, etc.) but not the general rule. Furthermore, of all forms of motor racing, dirt bikes should be the last vehicle to need it. How hard is it to kickstart a dirt bike? Do you have to get off the bike and bump start in a gravel runoff pit like a GP roadracer? It is pretty easy guys; just twist out the lever and give it a good kick.

Lastly BCR, if Yamaha can produce / sell an open-class, racing 4-stroke with e-start for $5,999 (notice that I haven't even focused on the cost issue) that weighs in at the AMA limit, I'll shut up. Until that time, I'd rather that they put the e-starter at the bottom end of the priority list.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Tiger, I went with the 520 because we ride a lot of desert, and the 400 just does not have the grunt the 520 does. We also ride the high country single track and at 10000+feet, it really pulls the power out of a bike. Wheezers you know, no air!!! The 520 weighs the same as the 400, so weight was'nt an issue. So in short, no, I did'nt even consider the 400. Mxbundy, I was totally shocked that I did'nt have transition "sickness" when going to the 520. It's really hard for me to judge a bike by just going on a short little test ride. I have to spend the day with the bike, in the ugly stuff to see if we are" compatilble". When I first rode the bike I was'nt all that jazzed(in the desert,short 20 mile ride). But when we went to the high country and I spent all day on the bike, I was really jazzed. Lots of tight single track and ugly rocky stuff. The same stuff that on the Yamaha I had fun in, the KTM was a blast. Dont get me wrong, I'm not bashing the Yamaha, it is a great bike. For me, the KTM was just more compliant. The bottom line here is personal preference. If a person is lucky, he or she can ride the bike they are considering and make a selection accordinly. Unfortunately, test rides on the new hybrids is pretty tough, ie, the new 450 Honda. So there are time you just have to take the luck of the draw and hope the manufacterer gets it right the first time!!! My humble 02.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Originally posted by slowmo
Hey folks,



I don't buy your analogies of the e-starter to the introduction of water How hard is it to kickstart a dirt bike? Do you have to get off the bike and bump start in a gravel runoff pit like a GP roadracer? It is pretty easy guys; just twist out the lever and give it a good kick.

.

???????On a 2 stroke yea. But I want to be there when you flame out on your 426 and just twist the throttle and start her up. If you follow the drill yes it is not that difficult, but if you dont, your done. When you are jamming with your friends and you flame out(I will say this again, I know your not supposed to flame out, but it DOES happen) and you just hit that button and you are on your way again, it is much less strenuous than having to go through the start drill(I DO have experience in the start drill on the 426). For me it is a great asset. It may only happen once or twice a ride, but for me it is well worth it. I am also a little confused regarding your statemnet that the addition of the E start detunes the bike. I dont consider the 520 a couch!! As for your statement of being a true enthusiast. I'm not one because I have an E button????

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Originally posted by slowmo
Hey folks,



I don't buy your analogies of the e-starter to the introduction of water How hard is it to kickstart a dirt bike? Do you have to get off the bike and bump start in a gravel runoff pit like a GP roadracer? It is pretty easy guys; just twist out the lever and give it a good kick.

.

???????On a 2 stroke yea. But I want to be there when you flame out on your 426 and just twist the throttle and start her up. If you follow the drill yes it is not that difficult, but if you dont, your done. When you are jamming with your friends and you flame out(I will say this again, I know your not supposed to flame out, but it DOES happen) and you just hit that button and you are on your way again, it is much less strenuous than having to go through the start drill(I DO have experience in the start drill on the 426). For me it is a great asset. It may only happen once or twice a ride, but for me it is well worth it. I am also a little confused regarding your statement that the addition of the E start detunes the bike. I dont consider the 520 a couch!! As for your statement of being a true enthusiast. I'm not one because I have an E button????

 

[slowmo]

Never...I said twist the lever (kickstarter) not the throttle.

You not going to let me get away with the "detune" comment are you? It was not meant in the literal sense of the engine.

If you read my profile like BCB, you'll note that I own a KTM (in addition to a 426). It's a fantastic brand; I just don't agree with the e-button. In fact, if KTM finally gets their suspension/handling bugaboos eliminated (and it looks like they should with hi/lo compression, 48mm forks, correct t-clamp offset), I will be having a tough time keeping my wallet away from a new 520SX (assuming no e-button sneaks onto the handlebars, of course).

Given your reasons for the e-starter, why should we stop with 4-strokes? Sure the 2-stroke typically starts easier but not always. Was Ricky Carmichael groaning about the lack of an e-starter after he took +3 kicks to restart his KX after falling at Hangtown? No, he was groaning about the fact that he made a stupid mistake. Many world-class racers seem to accept that crashes & stalls hurt their finishing results.

And regarding those like you and I who just ride for the fun of it, I cannot help if your friends are so rude that they will abandon you if you stall! At least you have the comfort of knowing that you would be lost in a very beautiful state. Have fun this weekend if you're riding.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

I know your profile, that is what surprises me about your E button"phobia"(just kidding). You own a YZ426. It is a great bike. The problem I had was the starting when hot. I have friends with the 426s and they dont have a problem with the starting. I did!! It was a mind set that I had that I couldnt get over. I would get freaked out over flaming out and then things would just get worse from there. I would literally get psyched to the point I was riding with trepidation and not relaxing. I know, I know, pretty lame excuse, but it really was a the truth. As far as my friends roosting on by, yea, they would in a heart beat. They are all scum(HAHAHA) That's why I couldnt be flamed out. In actuality, we do ride real hard and it's usually more like a race than a trail ride, so every second counts.:confused: This weekend, Crested Butte. Some more single track and more rocks. Gotta love this sport!!!