advice on how to transport in pickup truck

LG416 · Mar 17, 2007

hey guys,

I'm probably picking up a bike next weekend and was looking for some advice on how to secure it in the back of the pickup so it doesn't fall over.

I have a bunch of ratchet style straps, but other than that I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

KX02 · Mar 17, 2007

I just use two of the non-ratched tie downs. You'll probably need some sort of ramp as well. I also use a plastic step placed next to the ramp to allow me run up into the bed of the truck with the bike.

FruDaddy · Mar 17, 2007

Covered before, but use two straps, one for each side. I prefer the kind that attaches to itself, but don't use them exclusively. On the bed, higher and wider is best. On the bike, the bars are the way to go. Don't strap it down too tight (just compress the fork an inch or two), or you risk damaging the fork seals, especially if there are other factors (such as dirt particles) that would contribute to a leak. If you have a short bed truck, you will need to park the bike crooked. Put the front tire in a corner to keep it stable.

RYDMOTO · Mar 17, 2007

Ancra also sells 18" tie-down extensions.All they are is a loop which i use on my handle bars to keep them from getting scratched up.

LG416 · Mar 18, 2007

thanks for the suggestions guys.

mmz77 · Mar 18, 2007

Very easy like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y4fKUwgPfoQ

Moparman1539 · Mar 18, 2007

mmz77 said:
Very easy like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y4fKUwgPfoQ

:whoa:

:rotfl: that never gets old. Ive seen that before...

Patman · Mar 18, 2007

FruDaddy said:
Don't strap it down too tight (just compress the fork an inch or two), or you will blow out the fork seals.

Also covered before... No need to worry about blown fork seals by compressing the suspension. The oil in the fork isn't under pressure. Old wife's tale.

FruDaddy · Mar 18, 2007

Patman said:
Also covered before... No need to worry about blown fork seals by compressing the suspension. The oil in the fork isn't under pressure. Old wife's tale.

Never read the previous coverage, but if forks need to have the pressure released (the purpose of the screw), then they clearly do build pressure, and at some point ARE under pressure. Again, if the forks are not under pressure, then why do the bleed screws exist? I will accept that the heat generated by use creates the pressure, but exactly how much motion is requires for the build up?

Just call me overly cautious. I also do not use the plastic fork savers since I once had a seal start leaking because I left a bike on the truck for a few days with the saver in place.

SpeedyManiac · Mar 18, 2007

Pressure only builds up in the fork when they are being cycled very fast and a seal lets air into the fork internals. Statically compressing the forks (ie. when a bike is tied down in a truck) does not increase the internal pressure. It does, however, compress the springs and if you leave a bike tied down for a long time it can sack out your springs.

kx125412 · Mar 19, 2007

My seals blew out from cranking the bike down too tight. I use a 2X4 between the tire and the fender. I cut it down an inch or so to let the forks compress a bit and it really stabalizes the front wheel.

Patman · Mar 19, 2007

kx125412 said:
My seals blew out from cranking the bike down too tight.

No they didn't.

Please everyone spend a little time doing some research in the suspension forum. Seals will wear out but blowing out from excessive pressure buildup? Nah.

Patman · Mar 19, 2007

Perhaps a little head scratching is in order. Where does the air that the bleed screws release come from? As pointed out from the fork cycling quickly but the air must pass someplace. Is the metal of the tubes perforated? No. So where? The fork seals perhaps? Yes.

Now if the discussion was the seals at Sea World then I have no idea what the correct answer would be. :)

FruDaddy · Mar 19, 2007

Well, I know that the fliud in the fork maintains it's volume (except if it leaks out), and I know that air can be squeezed into a smaller space. I am also aware that air begins to increase in volume when heated. I am also aware that the amount of air left oin the fork affects the final portion of the fork travel, like a cushion. Armed will all of that, then I will say first, that the air that we bleed is caused by the heat generated from movement. We release the pressure, and subsequently allow the air inside the fork to cool. That is less important to this discussion than this fact, when we compress the forks to tie down a bike it reduces the internal volume of the fork, since the fluid doesn't compress, then we are squeezing the air into a smaller area, thus creating pressure. I am not sure how much pressure is created, nor can I verify how much pressure would be required to force the fluid past the seals (probably varies from seal to seal. But given enough pressure, the seal would be the first to give. Since the fluid level is usually just below the top of the lower tube, then it would be mostly air and residual oil that would escape.

rmc_olderthandirt · Mar 19, 2007

FruDaddy said:
forks need to have the pressure released (the purpose of the screw), then they clearly do build pressure, and at some point ARE under pressure.
.

The forks are sealed, at least to the extent that the fork seals are good. There is some amount of air in the forks to allow for thermal expansion of the fork fluid. Due to heat, changes in the weather or changes in altitude you will get some amount of pressure in the forks.

While the suspension is actually working you can have some major pressure inside the forks. The forks provide both the spring and the "shock absorber" function. A spring only stores energy, to maintain control you need to dissipate the energy. To do that, the oil in the fork is forced through a restricted opening. One way valves will provide a different damping for compression and rebound.

During compression, the piston is trying to move up and the pressure at the top of the fork can get very high. On the rebound, the spring is pushing the piston down, applying pressure to the bottom side. The moment that the piston in the fork stops moving the pressure equalizes and the top and bottom will be the same.

If you compress the forks and hold them compressed it is the spring you are pushing against, not any air/fluid pressure.

FruDaddy said:
Just call me overly cautious. I also do not use the plastic fork savers since I once had a seal start leaking because I left a bike on the truck for a few days with the saver in place.

The general misconception that I hear is that the fork savers will protect against seal damage, not the other way around. In reality, I don't see how it could hurt the seals at all and doubt that they would do much to protect them.

The plastic "fork savers" (better referred to as a fork support) do have a useful function, however. If you have your bike strapped down by the handle bars and then hit a bump that makes the forks compress (doing what they were designed to do) the action of the forks will make the tie dows go slack for a second. If this allowed the hook to fall off either end you could end up spilling the bike.

I saved myself a few bucks and made my own fork support. I simply cut a length of 3" ABS pipe so that it was a loose fit between the tire and the frame. The knobs of the tire engage the pipe assuring it won't slip out.

Rod

Patman · Mar 19, 2007

FruDaddy believe whatever works for ya' just please don't pass it off as fact when it's not. Plain and simple it's not factual and no matter how hard you try to make it seem like it, it's not. Feel free to go present your case in the Suspension forum and get it to pass muster there.

In the mean time it's safe to cinch a bike down, even without cracking the bleed screws. :)

FruDaddy · Mar 19, 2007

rmc_olderthandirt said:
The general misconception that I hear is that the fork savers will protect against seal damage, not the other way around. In reality, I don't see how it could hurt the seals at all and doubt that they would do much to protect them.

The plastic "fork savers" (better referred to as a fork support) do have a useful function, however. If you have your bike strapped down by the handle bars and then hit a bump that makes the forks compress (doing what they were designed to do) the action of the forks will make the tie dows go slack for a second. If this allowed the hook to fall off either end you could end up spilling the bike.

I think that I just had a random bad experience with the support, it didn't do the job that I bought it to do, so I stopped using it. I prevent the bouce issue with a set of wrap around straps. The hook goes into a loop on the strap, thus reducing the chance of it coming loose.

Patman, exactly what are you disputing?
Do you feel that the seal would not be the first failure if an excessive amount of pressure were applied to the inside of the fork? Then what would be the point of failure?
Am I incorrect in stating that compressing the fork reduces the internal volume of it?
Is it not true that air can be compressed? Because it is compressed in my tires. And a bought a tool for the sole purpose of compressing it.
Can you compress the oil that you use in your forks? I use the fact that oil doesn't compress to simplify the changing of seals on a non-inverted fork. It requires me to:
Remove the spring, to reduce the required force.
Extend the tube, for maximum internal volume.
Completely fill the tube with fluid (so there is no air inside) and put the cap back to seal the fork up.
Apply enough pressure to compress the fork and blow the seal out.

I will retract my previous statement that it will damage the seals, and replace it with may contribute to seal leakage. Would you accept that as a viable response?

Patman · Mar 19, 2007

FruDaddy said:
:blah: :blah: :blah:

I believe the facts have been quite clearly spelled out both in this thread as well as several in the Suspension Forum.

tnrider · Mar 19, 2007

i also tie down the rear wheel so that it stays centered behind the front wheel. before i did this, one time looked back and saw that the crf rear wheel had walked all the way across the back of the trailer and was hitting the bike next to it. does not have to be tight but one to each side will reduce the swing to the limit of the rope. if you wedge stuff around the wheel - it will have the same effect. on my enclosed trailer i have a single tie down point just behind the rear wheel - a small piece of rope looped over the rim and through this point holds the wheel in place.

motometal · Mar 19, 2007

wow, are we having fun yet?

any time you compress the forks, even if you let them sit compressed, you are increasing the pressure inside the forks to above atomospheric pressure (unless you release that pressure somehow). This pressure created, at a couple inches of compression such as when tied down in a truck, is a fraction of the pressure created when bottoming the forks landing from a jump. And, when bottoming, the seals don't "blow" or leak, right? Unless they are bad. The seals are made to handle this pressure, statically or dynamically, and then some. Seals usually start leaking from foreign matter (dirt etc) being trapped in between the lips of the seal. Yes, they can eventually wear out but it takes a long time.

I use a 2x4 under the fender for long trips, but not for short trips. It helps stabilize the bike but has nothing to do with the seals either way.

By the way, do you guys know any fork pressure air bleed fanatics? Ride a few laps, go back to the truck, bleed, repeat? I'm convinced this doesn't do anything other than make them busy, but oh well.

Back to the advice, get genuine Ancra tie downs, don't cheap out, all others pale in comparison. Best $25 you will ever spend. Also, get a good ramp, I like a 2 x 12" x 6', ride the bike right up into the truck. I don't like trailers, ratcheting tie downs, cheap tie downs that let go in the rain or at a bad time, or wimpy narrow ramps. But, that's just me.

DougRoost · Mar 19, 2007

Our local suspension guru and shop owner told me the biggest benefit of a fork support (purchased or home made) is to keep the bike firmly planted so the front end doesn't bounce. The possibility of it bouncing is what can cause the tie downs to come undone (soft ties or not) and also lead to fork seal failure by continued compression in the truck. This is most problematic after a long day of riding if you don't bleed your forks before putting the bike back in the truck and cynching it down. I personally prefer an old soccer ball about half inflated since it's the only thing I've ever found that never falls out.

Unlike the honorable motometal, I LIKE trailers, mainly because you can equip them with bike shoes and forget about the entire tie down process and dumping your bike when you have to ride it all the way back up in the truck, vs. a low trailer ramp (hardest after a long day of riding).

knowiam · Mar 19, 2007

Good thread you guys... thanks for the input as this topic is near and dear to me ... my boys crf 70 spilled over as I was leaving I 15 to 91. (Just this last Saturday) The only things Keeping it from going off were the fender and the strap I use to tie down the rear wheel.

I have been cranking the the front down on both my 450 and his 70...alas, I end up stopping and tightening things up during the road trip.

I'm not using "cheap" pepboy tiedowns... I tie a half hitch witht he excess strap onto itself to keep it from flapping around. I figure the problem is the bounce of the trailer (zieman 3 rail) and that I've not been using any type of block to keep the forks from compressing.[thanks for the idea for a home made pipe fork saver!]

Do you guys think the ratchet tie downs work best? Having the bikes spill over is taking the fun out of the ride to and from the desert. Practically giving me heart palpatations with visions of my own stupid yard sale littering the hwy.

Ken

Patman · Mar 20, 2007

Take it for what it's worth. Considering I prefer to spend more on suspension tuning than graphics or latest bling for my bike I'll stick with it. Lifted from http://www.mx-tech.com/ feel free to click around, lots of other useful and factual information there as well. :cool:

Seal Care Guide 1.0
Jun. 19, 2002 - By Jeremy Wilkey
Guys let me have your thoughts on this one.. MX-Tech Seal care guide:

What makes seals fail, and how can you improve their life? I've found the main culprit to seal life has always been dirt. So the real question is... how does one prevent dirt from entering the seal?

At the track:
After your ride, take a towel and wipe down the exterior of chrome leg. Dirt and dirt film will dry on the tube while you have your break. The first time you compress the fork these small to large particles will be swept into the seal. This is the begging of the leak. If you take the time to keep grunge from drying on the tube, or getting it off before you ride you'll double your seal life.

At the wash:
Avoid the power washer; in our day and age of instant gratification, I'm sure you will all ignore this rule. That being the case don't point the hose at the seal, or at the chrome. The high pressure can deflect and ram dirt caught in the dust wipers groves right into the seal. After you've washed your bike, take a towel and clean the forks. Those little water spots are dirt and mineral residue. Mineral residue is sharp and seals don't like sharp things adhered to the chrome.

At the shop:
Invest in a good seal driver; the home made one is going to cause problems. Use a seal bullet or bag when installing new seals. Always lube the seal with good seal grease. Replace the dirt scrapper and wiper as a set and don't reuse worn bushings. Follow these steps and you'll find your forks to have a longer seal life.

URBAN forklore:
Tying you bike down over night or all week does not cause seal problems. The pressure inside a fork actually increases its tendency to seal. If you have a leak after doing this it is from an imperfection (damage already done) and the extra internal pressure is just helping push oil out.

Bleeding your forks is a good idea for good performance, but has little to do with the seals life. If you fail to do this and notice a leak, it's from the same root cause as the bike being tided down myth of above.

XRpredator · Mar 20, 2007

someone thought I blew a seal once.

I told him it was just mayonnaise

biglou · Mar 20, 2007

XRpredator said:
someone thought I blew a seal once.

I told him it was just mayonnaise

Badda-bing! :rotfl:

Back on track, I loathe those fork saver things that you put between the tire and the fender. There's not enough backpressure on the tiedowns from the fork springs for my liking. I've lost those savers off trailers before, too. For me, two tiedowns in the bed of my truck has worked awesomely for 7 years now. Never lost a bike. My favorit saying regarding tying down in the back of the truck is, "It may fall over, but it won't fall out." (never had one fall over, either)

advice on how to transport in pickup truck

LG416

KX02

FruDaddy

RYDMOTO

LG416

mmz77

Moparman1539

Patman

Pantless Wonder

FruDaddy

SpeedyManiac

kx125412

Patman

Pantless Wonder

Patman

Pantless Wonder

FruDaddy

rmc_olderthandirt

Patman

Pantless Wonder

FruDaddy

Patman

Pantless Wonder

tnrider

Sponsoring Member

motometal

DougRoost

knowiam

Patman

Pantless Wonder

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers

biglou

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advice on how to transport in pickup truck

Pantless Wonder

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