Of all the cam bearing failures, it would be interesting to know how many were using full synthetic oil. KTM upgraded the 2002 design but maybe full synthetic oil in 2000-2001 RFS's will prevent the problem? I do know that all pro stock drag bikes use full synthetic's because if they don't guess whats the first thing to go, cam bearings and top end after only a couple runs. The KTM RFS is a high performance motor (not like XR's or DR's) and also runs hot, synthetic's hold up better then normal oil. Use a top grade motorcycle full synthetic oil (not Mobil 1, it's great for cars) and change it a lot. This is only my two cents and I'm not bagging on anyone, we all take good care of our bikes. Maybe those of us with 2000-2001 RFS's will get lucky and not need to replace the stinking bearings if we use full synthetic. (after all this watch mind you out next week!!!).
Cam Bearing Failures
- Thread starter z20ate
- Start date
Strick
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Nov 8, 1999
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I cannot comment on the synthetic prevention issue, but based on all the posts and conversation I have had locally about the bearing issue. It seems to have more to do with proper sealing/seals/carrier problems than any thing else. KTM did address these items in '02, but the bearings are the same!
One thing I did find interesting in my '02 manual is KTM RECOMMENDS using fully synethetic. Mobil 1 it is!
So, what's your issue with Mobil 1? Not to be bagging on your post or anything, but why don't you voice your concerns to Rich? I'm going to do my first oil/filter change now. I hope Mobil 1 won't hurt anything.:eek:
One thing I did find interesting in my '02 manual is KTM RECOMMENDS using fully synethetic. Mobil 1 it is!
So, what's your issue with Mobil 1? Not to be bagging on your post or anything, but why don't you voice your concerns to Rich? I'm going to do my first oil/filter change now. I hope Mobil 1 won't hurt anything.:eek:
- Thread starter
- #3
I'm a big fan of Mobil 1 and use it in all my cars. I would love to put it in my 400 but have been told the following by my local shop and also "thumper racing" and an article in "dirt rider" said not to use it. Mobil 1 dones not hold up AS GOOD in 4-stroke motorcycles, because of all the fast moving parts it SHEARS faster then a top brand "motorcycle full synthetic oil". Our cars don't have as many moving parts. But like I said I'd love to put it in my RFS. Maybe someone else can help.
motojunkie
Member
- Apr 25, 2001
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I think the real issue with Mobil 1 is that most of their oils contain friction modifiers. Oils with an EC rating contain friction modifiers, which will cause clutch slipping. Check the circle on the back of the bottle for the EC rating or the words "Energy Conserving", and don't use that type of oil in your RFS. I'm currently using Maxima Maxum 4 synthetic blend in my RFS with no problems.....let's hope none develop.
Strick
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Nov 8, 1999
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I just love this saying, "the ignorant don't know they are ignorant"
Mobil 1 15W-50, many bikes, 1000's of miles - ZERO failures, excellent clutch action, ease of finding neutral, no notchy shifting.
Use what your dealer tells you to though - Those guys know their stuff!:p
Mobil 1 15W-50, many bikes, 1000's of miles - ZERO failures, excellent clutch action, ease of finding neutral, no notchy shifting.
Use what your dealer tells you to though - Those guys know their stuff!:p
jeb
Member
- Jul 21, 1999
- 633
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Strick, you're using the right stuff. The 15-50 Mobil 1 car oil does not have the friction modifiers. I think all the other M1 car grades do, though, and I wouldn't personally use them. Now, as far as the what oil I was using in my RFS when I had the failure. I was and am using Belray EXP semi-synthetic. I don't think that's a factor, though, as I know guys running dino oil in '00's since new and they have not had the problem. Good question, though.
quadrunner
Member
- Jul 20, 2001
- 48
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Neither...
Mobil 1 for automotive is low in zinc phosphate, to not cause harm to catalytic converters. Good for cars. Not ideal for motorcycles. Mobil 1 MX4T is not the recommended viscosity weight for temps above 32F.
Silkolene Pro-4 Synthetic 15W-50. It's red!
Mobil 1 for automotive is low in zinc phosphate, to not cause harm to catalytic converters. Good for cars. Not ideal for motorcycles. Mobil 1 MX4T is not the recommended viscosity weight for temps above 32F.
Silkolene Pro-4 Synthetic 15W-50. It's red!
- Thread starter
- #12
Hey Strick, you don't need to be mean, I'm not "ignorant". I'm only passing on information to maybe help us all. I said I'm a big fan of Mobil 1 and may use it but I'm currently using Maxum 4 full synthetic. Also what do you mean "voice my concern's to Rich"? My concern's are for everyone on this forum with RFS's.
Strick,
SHAME ON YOU! for starting the oil thread...again!:confused:
The rest of you.... If you're interested in "why"....We've beat this to death on DRN in the past....just search on "Mobil 1".
Hey if it makes you comfortable, spend the extra money, lifes short...be happy:)
SHAME ON YOU! for starting the oil thread...again!:confused:
The rest of you.... If you're interested in "why"....We've beat this to death on DRN in the past....just search on "Mobil 1".
Hey if it makes you comfortable, spend the extra money, lifes short...be happy:)
car oils
It just seems more logical that motorcycle specific oils would be better for motorcycles than automotive oils, if not then why make them? Just tell everybody to run automotive oil in their bikes. I know things aren't allways as they seem but untill someone does a real good job of convincing me otherwise I will run motorcycle oil in my motorcycle.
It just seems more logical that motorcycle specific oils would be better for motorcycles than automotive oils, if not then why make them? Just tell everybody to run automotive oil in their bikes. I know things aren't allways as they seem but untill someone does a real good job of convincing me otherwise I will run motorcycle oil in my motorcycle.
Dirk Diggler
Member
- Jun 28, 2001
- 61
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Wild Hare,
You beat me. I am in Marketing, and let it be known, things like that do go on in the industry.
You beat me. I am in Marketing, and let it be known, things like that do go on in the industry.
Strick
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Nov 8, 1999
- 1,782
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KTM Owner Manual Advice
"Use only fully synthetic oil brands, which meet quality requirements (Shell Advance Ultra 4) of API classes SG or SH (informations on bottles) or higher.
--taken from the English translation section of the 2002 400/520 sx, exc, mxc racing Owner's manual, page 41.
To all posters above - Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds KTM's quality requirements.
"SHAME ON YOU! for starting the oil thread...again! " -- Wild Hare I didn't start it, really I didn't.
Z-28 -- we are all ignorant of many things (even Rich)
Rich is the resident fuel/oil commentator/Moderator. I suggest you search his tech forum for more info. I'll bet he is real bored with this topic.
Motoj... - Mobil 1 15W-50 info. I have access to does not mention it being EC, not on the case, not on the bottle.
Pom - I laughed at what you posted. I guess we're even.
Jeb - I have no questions of anyone on this thread regarding oils, but thank for your vote of confidence anyway. I was being sarcastic when I said I hope Mobil 1 won't hurt anything.
Finally guys, Why do any of you care what I run (successfully) in my bikes? I have used 10 different oils in the gearbox of my 300. I settled on Mobil 1 15W-50. Here's the kicker I even used ATF once - OH NO!! 3300 miles later (2000 of which is Mobil 1), I'm still desert racing it. The bike has never DNF'd me.
:silly:
Good Bye!
"Use only fully synthetic oil brands, which meet quality requirements (Shell Advance Ultra 4) of API classes SG or SH (informations on bottles) or higher.
--taken from the English translation section of the 2002 400/520 sx, exc, mxc racing Owner's manual, page 41.
To all posters above - Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds KTM's quality requirements.
"SHAME ON YOU! for starting the oil thread...again! " -- Wild Hare I didn't start it, really I didn't.
Z-28 -- we are all ignorant of many things (even Rich)
Rich is the resident fuel/oil commentator/Moderator. I suggest you search his tech forum for more info. I'll bet he is real bored with this topic.
Motoj... - Mobil 1 15W-50 info. I have access to does not mention it being EC, not on the case, not on the bottle.
Pom - I laughed at what you posted. I guess we're even.
Jeb - I have no questions of anyone on this thread regarding oils, but thank for your vote of confidence anyway. I was being sarcastic when I said I hope Mobil 1 won't hurt anything.
Finally guys, Why do any of you care what I run (successfully) in my bikes? I have used 10 different oils in the gearbox of my 300. I settled on Mobil 1 15W-50. Here's the kicker I even used ATF once - OH NO!! 3300 miles later (2000 of which is Mobil 1), I'm still desert racing it. The bike has never DNF'd me.
:silly:
Good Bye!
What Strick said. I have been running a myriad of lubricants in my cars and motorcycles for 30+ years and have never had a oil related failure of any kind. I even have a '88 GMC truck w/ 250,000 miles that has only gotten oil changes every 20,000 miles. Oil is oil, although synthetics like Mobil 1 do minimize wear and help the engine make slightly more power (1%).
quadrunner
Member
- Jul 20, 2001
- 48
- 0
SG rating
Exactly my point. SG rating, which preceded SH rating, I believe addressed concerns to longevity of catalytic converters, by removing zinc phosphate. ZP is known to reduce wear on aluminum parts, like plain bearings on some camshafts. Might matter not at all on KTM with its ball bearings. Motorcycle only oils, like Spectro are heavy on ZP additives.
I'm going to spend $10/qt on Silkolene Pro-4 15W-50 synthetic. It's my money, and I sleep better at night. Mobil 1 is fine, been using it in cars AND motorcycles for years.
But...I did notice air bubbles (foaming) in the sight window using Mobil 1 and other oils. Don't see this with the Silk Pro-4 however. Don't flame me...just an observation. Not saying it's necessarily better. But something about it is different. You can see it in the way it pours, (and the red color.)
Anyway, the KTM recommendation was for Shell Advance Ultra 4, which I can't find. Dirt Rider said not to use Mobil 1 in KTM four stroke. THEY recommend Spectro, but said any motorcycle oil, not automotive. So with all this, confusion reins. Everyone has an opinion. Mine is that the Silk Pro 4 comes closest to what KTM states, that I can find.
Exactly my point. SG rating, which preceded SH rating, I believe addressed concerns to longevity of catalytic converters, by removing zinc phosphate. ZP is known to reduce wear on aluminum parts, like plain bearings on some camshafts. Might matter not at all on KTM with its ball bearings. Motorcycle only oils, like Spectro are heavy on ZP additives.
I'm going to spend $10/qt on Silkolene Pro-4 15W-50 synthetic. It's my money, and I sleep better at night. Mobil 1 is fine, been using it in cars AND motorcycles for years.
But...I did notice air bubbles (foaming) in the sight window using Mobil 1 and other oils. Don't see this with the Silk Pro-4 however. Don't flame me...just an observation. Not saying it's necessarily better. But something about it is different. You can see it in the way it pours, (and the red color.)
Anyway, the KTM recommendation was for Shell Advance Ultra 4, which I can't find. Dirt Rider said not to use Mobil 1 in KTM four stroke. THEY recommend Spectro, but said any motorcycle oil, not automotive. So with all this, confusion reins. Everyone has an opinion. Mine is that the Silk Pro 4 comes closest to what KTM states, that I can find.
The one thing (as mentioned even in this thread) you have to look out for are the friction modifiers (found in "energy conserving" oils). They will make your clutch not work.
All the other stuff is debatable. For my YZ250 (not F) I use Mobil Delvac 15W-40 diesel motor oil, and you can be pretty bloody certain it holds up under pressure and fast moving parts better than any motorcycle oil and doesn't shear. I use it since my dad buys it in 200 litre barrels for his trucking company.
All the other stuff is debatable. For my YZ250 (not F) I use Mobil Delvac 15W-40 diesel motor oil, and you can be pretty bloody certain it holds up under pressure and fast moving parts better than any motorcycle oil and doesn't shear. I use it since my dad buys it in 200 litre barrels for his trucking company.
"The one thing (as mentioned even in this thread) you have to look out for are the friction modifiers (found in "energy conserving" oils). They will make your clutch not work."
This isn't true. I've used a lot of oil w/ friction modifiers without any adverse effect on my clutch. My bike has a lot of power and I am hard on my clutch.
This isn't true. I've used a lot of oil w/ friction modifiers without any adverse effect on my clutch. My bike has a lot of power and I am hard on my clutch.
