Canon 20D or what?

oldguy · May 17, 2007

Just feeling out a possible upgrade. I have the origonal version Digital Rebel and while I really can not complain about it I am thinking about upgrading (thanks Chili you set this in motion with that lens :cool: )
What would be a good step up staying canon as I have all canon lens. Looking on the internet it seems the 20D is priced almost the same and some places less then the new rebel version.

Chili · May 17, 2007

Pretty much anything above your Rebel will give you all you'll need. I'd go with whatever I could get the best deal on Rebel XT, XTi, 20D or 30D. If you are in no rush, remind me at Millville and I'll send you out with one of my 20D's on Amateur day or Open Practice day.

Tony Eeds · May 17, 2007

Chili said:
Pretty much anything above your Rebel will give you all you'll need. I'd go with whatever I could get the best deal on Rebel XT, XTi, 20D or 30D. If you are in no rush, remind me at Millville and I'll send you out with one of my 20D's on Amateur day or Open Practice day.

Dang ... showoff ... multiple bodies ... but then again you are a pro ...

I had the ocassion to use my D30 recently at a soccer game. Talk about an antique. My D20's response time is a thousand times faster. Things have really changed in the last 5 years.

Chili · May 17, 2007

Tony Eeds said:
Dang ... showoff ... multiple bodies ... but then again you are a pro ...

Pro :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: It's actually a pain dealing with two bodies and likely shooting other sports I'd simply change lenses but given how bad the dust usually is at our tracks I prefer to try not to change lenses at the track, hence the two bodies. The other aspect is I always have a backup should one fail.

oldguy · May 17, 2007

Doug Does the newest Rebel version have the servo features and burst shoot capabilities? I see most places are pricing the new Rebel pretty close to the 20Ds. Figure if I get a kit with a lens I can give Spider the Rebel and lens. then keep the new body for me

olderndirtmom · May 17, 2007

oldguy said:
Figure if I get a kit with a lens I can give Spider the Rebel and lens. then keep the new body for me

Spider must have already taken the Rebel back to school with him, eh Old Guy?

I see why you'd be thinking of an upgrade. :laugh:

oldguy · May 17, 2007

olderndirtmom said:
Spider must have already taken the Rebel back to school with him, eh Old Guy?

I see why you'd be thinking of an upgrade. :laugh:

He hasn't been home yet but finished exams today ssssooooooo :bang:

Chili · May 18, 2007

Dave every model since the 300D (Original Rebel) has the ability to select AI Servo as a focusing mode in any setting.

biglou · May 18, 2007

Dave-I've seen some smokin' prices on new 20D's lately. The force is strong...

AI Servo on everything since the original 300D? Hmmm... I'll still get a 20D eventually.

biglou · May 18, 2007

Example: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-20D-8-2MP-Digital-Camera/dp/B0002XQI2E

Check the price on that XTi kit just below it, too.

And Amazon is historically not the cheapest place for stuff like this, from my experience.

Check out Sam's also. And search the web. There were some other places with slightly lower prices if I remember. And buy me one when you get yours... ;)

Chili · May 18, 2007

To be perfectly honest if it was me making a choice between all the camera's on that page at Amazon I'd likely by the XT for the cheapest price. I'd use the extra cash to buy the vertical grip and a decent lens to compliment the 70-200, something like a 24-70 or even a 17-40. Or I'd shop used for a good condition 20 or 30D. That will be what I do for a mkII unless I win the lottery.

biglou · May 18, 2007

I just did a bunch of reading about the XTi over on Steve's, and searched out this thread on the XTi vs. 20D: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00J8i3

Seems like it's split right down the middle for preference. Other than the physical size preference, and the slightly faster fps rate of the 20D, it sure seems like the XTi wins this battle.

Thoughts?

Kawidude · May 18, 2007

I've been pretty happy with my 350D. I've had it for about a year and a half now and I'm pretty satisfied with the image quality I'm getting so far. It could be improved with some better glass, but I don't feel I'm lacking in what the Rebel can do, so far.

If you want, check out my website: www.mikeshots.com

Go to the Motorcycles section and then check out the Hangtown 2006 gallery. Those are the only shots on the site that I felt like were half-way decent. They were all shot with my 350D and my 75-300mm USMIII lens. Actually, all of the dirtbike galleries were done with the 350D. The car shots were taken with a Nikon and a lens that didn't have enough reach.

Tony Eeds · May 20, 2007

My next camera will have a full frame image sensor.

I shoot a lot of wide angle shots of the buildings that I work on and the sub full frame image sensors are always causing me problems. I tried going with ultra wide angle lenses, but the multiplication factor is killing me, and I cannot go below a certain point (about 17mm) and economically justify the glass.

Sure I would like a EOS 1D Mark III, but that ain't happening. Photojojo uses a 5D and I am impressed with the durability of that unit.

A used 5D may be the best way for me to get into full frame.

Rich Rohrich · May 20, 2007

Tony Eeds said:
I tried going with ultra wide angle lenses, but the multiplication factor is killing me, and I cannot go below a certain point (about 17mm) and economically justify the glass.

Tony - Aren't you going to run into issues anyway trying to run less than pro-spec glass on a full frame sensor? Everything I've read along the way seems to point to the quality requirements at wide angle going way up when you go to full frame. It makes sense really. The image circle isn't as big with the crop factor sensors so the edge flaws get hidden.

When I was working on video conferencing cameras at USR we ran into the same lens issues when we built cameras with a higher quality 1/3" sensor and tried to use the lenses that were designed for our 1/4" sensor cameras.

I get the feeling that a lens for a full frame digital sensor has different requirements than one designed for 35mm film.

If you look at the Canon product descriptions for the $700 EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM and the $1600 EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM they sort of hint at this difference.

Maybe you can split the difference and use one of their slick tilt-shift lenses like the TS-E 24mm f/3.5L ($1100) . It's not as wide as the other two but it might accomplish what you want. That lens is so cool it makes me want to buy a Canon just so I can use it. :whoa:

Spider · May 20, 2007

On the Amazon site they say the dimensions of the 20D is 9 x 7.9 x 6.5 and 1 pound
they list the XTi as 5 x 2 x1 2 pounds

are those dimensions accurate? The listed size of the 20D makes it sound like a shoe box.
I guess I am leaning toward the XTi at this point but keep thinking for just another $150 or so I can get the 20D. Are there enough added features and quality to make it worth it?
Dam I can tell Spider is back in the house his laptop must not have been good enough last night ;)

Chili · May 20, 2007

Not sure about the exact dimensions but the 20D is definitely larger. The 20D will pretty much be the same size as your 300D if I recall correctly. Some folks pass on the XT and XTi because they feel the body is too small and doesn't fit their hand they way they feel it should after using previous SLR's.

Chili · May 20, 2007

Tony Eeds said:
A used 5D may be the best way for me to get into full frame.

Given that besides the 5D your only other FF choice is a 1DsMKII at over 8k :yikes: I'd figure the 5D is your best choice also. The 1DmkIII is a 1.3 crop sensor.

Tony Eeds · May 20, 2007

Rich Rohrich said:
Tony - Aren't you going to run into issues anyway trying to run less than pro-spec glass on a full frame sensor? Everything I've read along the way seems to point to the quality requirements at wide angle going way up when you go to full frame. It makes sense really. The image circle isn't as big with the crop factor sensors so the edge flaws get hidden.

When I was working on video conferencing cameras at USR we ran into the same lens issues when we built cameras with a higher quality 1/3" sensor and tried to use the lenses that were designed for our 1/4" sensor cameras.

I get the feeling that a lens for a full frame digital sensor has different requirements than one designed for 35mm film.

If you look at the Canon product descriptions for the $700 EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM and the $1600 EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM they sort of hint at this difference.

Maybe you can split the difference and use one of their slick tilt-shift lenses like the TS-E 24mm f/3.5L ($1100) . It's not as wide as the other two but it might accomplish what you want. That lens is so cool it makes me want to buy a Canon just so I can use it. :whoa:

Yes, you are correct on the glass issue, but resolution quality is not as big an issue as just trying to get as much as possible in the photo for "historical" purposes when I am photographing the building interiors that I am restoring. I have found too many ocassions when I cannot get far enough away from the target subject with the equipment I have.

My 20mm F2.8 is effectively a 32mm and my 17-85mm is 27.2 on the short side.

Also, my 300mm would be a true 300, not a 420mm, which can be nice sometimes but too long many times.

T & S ... yea baby, I want one of them as well. Someday! I guess I could buy a T & S and a incremental tripod head and get real good with stitching together photos, maybe that is the ticket.

I read an article in Digital PhotoPro that hinted (but didn't explain) issues cropping up where pro glass that was the schinit for film work is causing problems for the digital crowd. It seems to be because of the difference in the way that sensors view the scene vs film. As I said, they really didn't go into it, but the article is in the May/June issue.

Tony Eeds · May 20, 2007

Chili said:
Given that besides the 5D your only other FF choice is a 1DsMKII at over 8k :yikes: I'd figure the 5D is your best choice also. The 1DmkIII is a 1.3 crop sensor.

Mmmmm, Digital PhotoPro implies that the Mark III is full frame, but that is as far as I even got with research. I darn sure know that sucker is NOT in my future.

Chris (Photojojo) keeps talking good about the 5D.

We are going on a DS ride from Queen NM to Cloudcroft NM and back next month. Maybe I will just have to pry that sucker out of his hands for a bit ... :nod:

Tony Eeds · May 20, 2007

Spider said:
Dam I can tell Spider is back in the house his laptop must not have been good enough last night

Hey Dave!!

Gotta love our kids!

Rich Rohrich · May 20, 2007

Tony Eeds said:
I guess I could buy a T & S and a incremental tripod head and get real good with stitching together photos, maybe that is the ticket.

Tony - I bought a Pano head for my tripod and have been using it with standard lenses. I've only just started to learn how to use it but so far it has produced some results that I really like.

If you use a Pano head that can correct for the optical parallax and keep the optical center of the lens directly over the point of rotation the stitching software available makes putting the shots together simple and automatic. I think with a good prime and a Pano setup you'll get some amazing shots without a huge investment, plus it's really fun to goof around with. :)

Here's a link showing my Pano setup and a couple of simple first attempt examples :

http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=149394

Tony Eeds · May 20, 2007

Thanks for the link. How did I miss that thread ... probably work getting in the way of fun ...

I guess I should not gripe too much, work pays for and owns the toys.

oldguy · May 20, 2007

Doug what do you think of the Canon EF 28-135MM F/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens? A shop here is claiming that it is a $600 lens and they are kitting it with the 30D. I know it lacks the F/2.8 of the one I bought from you and that seems to be a big downfall. If it is a decent lens it would let me eliminate my 2 shorter lens and give a nice overlap with the 70-200.

Chili · May 20, 2007

I've never used one Dave, I know one guy locally here that uses one outdoors, it's not the best indoors. It's certainly not a $600 lens ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/149629-USA/Canon_2562A002_Zoom_W_A_Telephoto_EF_28_135mm.html ) I'm betting we could beat that price with some shopping as well.

If you are looking for a Canon package I'd likely look for something packaged with this lens http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/351548-USA/Canon_9517A002_EF_S_17_85mm_f_4_5_6_IS.html although if I was spending my money I'd end up with this as my other lens to compliment the 70-200 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/350973-REG/Sigma_548101_24_70mm_f_2_8_EX_DG.html

I stayed away from the Sigma 24-70 because it doesn't have the HSM motor and lucked out and got a steal of a deal on the Canon 24-70. Had the deal on the Canon not come along for me that Sigma would be my second lens.

Canon 20D or what?

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D'oh!

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Godspeed Tony.

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