cr450 all hype

stormer94 · Sep 6, 2001

The whole debate over an 'untested'?!?!? bike being different in the hands of the masses is total crap. The only guys that would know WOULD BE the pro's and the guys that developed the bike. Not us weekend warrior bashers. The only input 99% of us would be able to provide are those things that Honda had not anticipated we as consumers would be dumb enough to try or have happen to us.

Dear Honda
I was riding my cr450f and the forks BENT when my front tire fell off. I was trying to save some wieght and whittled the axle down a bit with a hacksaw. Also, it's been hard to start lately and smokes a lot. I thought I solved that a while back when I took the airfilter off the bike to help it breathe. Oh yea, and although I've never had the bike more than a foot off the ground and have no idea what a breaking bump is, I think the frame doesn't work very good, your engineering sucks!!!

I suspect they know more than we do... :)

XRpredator · Sep 6, 2001

Er,I was being sarcastic!:silly:

AJ Waggoner · Sep 7, 2001

IMHO - the important question in this thread is WHERE do you think the hype is coming from? not from Honda..they have fairly straight forward marketing as any manufactuer would a new model.

Not from the Magz they havnt said much about it really..
at least in comparison to the huge Cannondale hype and the YZF 400 hype of the past?

So that leaves the "hype" coming from the consumers!

seems now you have to ask yourself 'WHY"?
are "they" not happy with the current mx 4 strokes?
and so highly anticipate any new model or change?
could be lots of reasons ,but seems a parculiar reaction.

On the alum /steel frame material debate within this thread..
sheeesh...
i really enjoy riders pointing out alum frame design flaws.
EVERY Jap manufactuer makes thier Super bikes or serious road race GP bikes based on perimiter aluminum frames..
pretty interesting for such a flawed material to base thier bike designs off of? LOL

the comments above about the aluminum thickness having to be greater and therefor off-set the weight savings over steel is interesting!!!!
If this was true ---
Im fairly CERTAIN we would see comericial airliners made of steel..since the cost to build the plane from the MUCH cheaper material would be substantial per unit.

Regardless Honda did NOT go to alum frames to just save weight.
Just as Suzuki, Yam ,Kaw dint go to alum frames on thier GP sport bikes to just save weight.
They all went that direction ( long ago) because it was viewed by ALL to be a better material (in a given price range,AND strength to weight ratio ) for designing a motorcycle frame that needed to resist flexing under extreem cornering loads.

Bwalker - you have an EXCELLENT point-
if the energy was spent on lightening up a current CR250 that has been spent on the 450f we would have a 190 pound stock oem 250.
anybody notice how the 125 250 and 450f share the same basic frame/chassis?
notice how THIS year the hubs ...brake calipers etc are all significantly lighter
than past years to pair down the 450fs weight?
at least the 125 and 250 benefit some by sharing those new lightner parts but its a shame as this could have been addresed almost 10 years ago!!!
( those parts have been the same forever on the CRs)
and the '2 stroke" bikes are indeed lighter this model year...a good thing but it still urks me it wasnt done for those models but to curb the diesel pigs weight..lol
:think

I have to big to differ on the 97 98 99 verses 00 frames not being much different in handling ..They ARE and I can feel the diffrence and im way slower than windham. ;)
( a side note is i dont think its all in the frame , it certainly is partly suspension but there is a frame change you can feel nonethe less)

bwalker · Sep 7, 2001

are "they" not happy with the current mx 4 strokes?

IMHO who could be happy with the current thumpers for mx work. They are tanks!

On the alum /steel frame material debate within this thread..

Bunch of neo Ludites, AJ. when the other MFG's start to use alloy frames they will be the best thing since sliced bread according to these same naysayers.

if the energy was spent on lightening up a current CR250 that has been spent on the 450f we would have a 190 pound stock oem 250.

Not to mention the strides that could have been made with repect to motors

holeshot · Sep 7, 2001

Sliced Aluminum

.
Honda has yet to win a Supercross or motocross title in the US with their aluminum framed 'crossers.

When (or if) RC whips everyone on his Honda (CR250) next year, then aluminum will be the best thing since "sliced bread". In the aftermath, everyone will say, "It's just the rider, told ya". But if RC doesn't win.......:eek:

KnobShredder · Sep 8, 2001

Originally posted by bwalker
IMHO all four strokes mx'ers are way over hyped. The fact remains that a four stroke is heavier and will never make the the same hp as the same sized two stroke.Through as much money at a two stroke as the big four are throwing into the diesels and we would have some truly awesome two strokes.

amen brother. most uninformed 4 stroke guys think their new bikes are the greatest thing since sliced bread. With either a double displacement or several hundred cc advantage over their 2stroke competition, who are these guys kidding? it confounds me that the trend in motocross would be toward larger, heavier,(did i mention louder?) bikes. it goes against common sense, but there sure is no lack of buyers for them...

MARK # 51 · Sep 8, 2001

you WILL own and race one yourself soon enough.

KnobShredder · Sep 8, 2001

is that the texas mentality speaking? "i WILL own one". thanks for the lecture buddy, i know i'm not smart enough to think for myself anyway.

AJ Waggoner · Sep 8, 2001

Knob- i think Mark isnt lecturing on bike choice-
he is just refereing to thew inevitable EPCA emissions that will likely force us all onto 4 strokes?
likely and unfornunantly true.

unfortunantly the same effort put into makinmg a 4 stroke weigh less and put out more power could be put into making the 2 stroke EPA compliant.
as for myself ill be on a thumper when they pry my 2 stroke out of my hands by regulating it into obscerity..

Ill still have fun on a thumper but nothing beats the feeling a 500cc 2 stroke
delivers,and i plan to ride mine a long time.

motometal · Sep 8, 2001

AJ, you may just have to buy a bunch of 500 engines, then convert CR450s to two strokes!!!

___

I like an engine that has a hard hitting powerband. To me, there is a fine line between "smooth", "tractable", "electric" and "BORING"!

Four strokes are great for woods and/or racers who want the fastest lap times and don't want a sudden burst of power. For me, half of the fun IS the sudden burst of power (unless it's muddy or hardpack, of course). I don't race (except maybe at spodefest), I'm just out for the thrill of riding when I ride.

But, to each his own.

So you are going to give me a bike that's heavier, harder to start, noisier, more moving parts, more expensive to rebuild, with a less than thrilling powerband?

Nah, I'll pass!

In fact, I'm not even sure I will like the powerband of the new CR250 with the solenoid operated powervalve...haven't ridden one yet so I can't say for sure.

HiG4s · Sep 8, 2001

Re: Re: cr450 all hype

Originally posted by XRpredator

That may be true, but I'd bank on the Honda reliability more than KTM's (no offense to KTM--That'll probably be my next bike!)

Twice you have mentioned Honda reliability vs KTM. I know several people with Honda CRs 80s 125s and 250s and none have been as reliable as my former 250 KTM or my current 125 Huaqvarna. Now if you are talking about XRs that is totally different. They don't have the performance engines the CRs, or other serious dirt bikes have.

There is an old saying, if you produce an engine with 0 hp it will have 0 wear and will therefore last forever.

AJ Waggoner · Sep 8, 2001

Motopuffs-

Since i already do the 250 conversion the 450f would be a breeeze lol
and yes i will have lots of 500 engines - as always :)
hopefully for at least ten more years!

I think the new breed of 4 strokes is awesome..
just not my personal cup of tea...
maybe when if I grow up someday ;)

Rich Rohrich · Sep 8, 2001

Originally posted by AJ Waggoner
maybe when if I grow up someday ;)

I WON'T be holding my breath waiting for THAT:scream:

BSWIFT · Sep 8, 2001

I have not riden a 400cc+ four stroke or a 500cc two stroke but I have to agree with AJ,

ill be on a thumper when they pry my 2 stroke out of my hands by regulating it into obscerity..

I have 3/5's of the cc's that AJ has and it is a rush. Hype.....well, I've read some speculations here, some fact, and some "wishful thinking" and I'm not convinced. The CR450F may provide the offroad community and new wonder toy but it is yet to be seen whether it will be the beginning of the end for the two strokes. :think

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