CRF450R Y09 - RECALL? - 1st Ride Report

[Spokes574]

Rode my bike yesterday for the first time after spending 2wks doing mods to the bike(fork springs/ProCircuit linkage/GPR4 dampener/Fasst Handle bars/Yosi Pipe/Hydraulic clutch/Chain/Graphics/hour meeter) to find that the other 4 CRF450R owners at the track did not have their bikes. They all said their bikes were at the honda dealer getting repaired. Something about a cam pin working it's way loose and preventing them from being able to kick the bikes on. I will be calling my dealer to find out more about this recall. So all be ware.

Ride Report
=========
Will post more in a week or two, the suspension has to break in still so difficult to give a ride report.

Turning: I will say this, the bike can take inside or rutted lines with ease. I am able to dive into a line and stay in it, which I could not do with the Y05 that I had.

Power: is very linear and smooth, possibly too smooth, so smooth that the bike does feel slower than my Y05. The engine no longer has the old 4 stroke chug a lug feel. Engine feels more modern like the yamaha engines. Top end? well the track that I rode did not have very long straight aways
and the over rev seemed very acceptable with my Yosi pipe. I will say that if it was any less than what I have now, I would not be happy with it. So I will guess that with the stock pipe that has much less over rev I would not be to happy with it. I like to rev my gears out. Even with this new pipe, the bike feels slower than the Y05. Feel vs. actual are two different things, but it does feel slower - possibly because it feels all torquey instead of pure burst of power.

Gearing: With the pipe I have on I did not have any issues with gaps. But since the bike seems a bit slow I might add a tooth. Only a few more rides will tell for sure, but I am leaning in that direction currently or possibly a CAM. The CAM profiles for the last few hondas have not shown any significant power increases so might not be worth doing for the effort, install and money. Possibly the sprocket is easiest route.

Balance - just sitting in the garage floor you can tell the back end is sitting way high. I added new linkage and the bike flattened out.

Suspension- Still needs to break in, feels firm now and never bottoms out. Best bottoming resistance of any honda I ever had.

Electronics- seems scary. Lots of wires and sensors every where and I read that one of the lines is pressurized. I was nervous when I was adding all the new mods to the bike.

Starting- I am not sure what the magazines are talking about, this bike starts easily for me. I give it 7 kicks in the morning to charge the electronics, than smooth but strong! kick from the top and it turns on fine.

Stalling - Yes, you need to have the idle way up on this bike! it will stall in corners if you do not carry speed. I turned the idle way up and the problem went a way.

Lightness: I can flick this bike around super easy. It does not seem thinner to me than my Y05, but does seem to be able to flick around much easier.

Spokes574

 

[Rich Rohrich]

You put a pipe on a brand new EFI bike that you've never ridden before?

I have to ask, what would possibly make you think that would be necessary?

Have you considered the possibility that the "new" pipe might be slowing the bike down because it's characteristics don't match the EFI map that Honda built for the stock pipe? EFI engines only have so much "leeway" in the built in map, so changes to the exhaust or intake flow (like a cam would produce) will usually require a change to the ECU's map to keep the change from slowing the bike down. There is a reason they sell so many Power Commanders every year.

Just something to consider. ;)

 

[IndyMX]

I looked at the Consumer Product Safety Commission website, no recalls listed for this bike yet.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prerel.html

 

[Spokes574]

Rich,
Good question about the pipe install. Basicly I read so many bad reviews about the bike, in addition to the fixes to the problem areas. I did not want to be disapointed in riding the bike the first time so I did all the suggested fixed, except the gearing and mapping. The reviews were all roughly the same.

You are totally correct that the stock ignition is optimized for the stock pipe and changes/tollerances allowed are very small. I read that in the first EFI test 2yrs ago.
The pipe I selected is very close in size and almost the same technology as the Honda stock pipe so hopefully I am getting the best performance w/o remapping. I was smart enough to get the dyno curve before purchasing and got the steel head pipe / Al carbon canister which was about 1/2 the price of the exotic material version.

I will call the manufacturer and see if they have or suggest a different map than the stock. I will let everyone know on Monday.

What I did notice about most of the pipe manufacturers; is that for this bike the pipes are longer than stock which makes sense to make more over-rev.

Spokes574

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I'm not talking about the ignition mapping, I'm talking about the fuel curve mapping. The fuel curve is very sensitive to changes in the exhaust. The best information I have at this point is the stock fuel map is very crisp with the stock pipe. Changing the pipe will likely build lean areas into the curve and really flatten the power.

It might be worth trying the bike with the stock pipe just to have a base reference point for modifications.

It's a system (and a highly optimized one at that), and you have to approach modifications with that in mind. It's not like the old days. I'm not sure if that's good or bad though. :)

Yoshimura has developed EFI piggyback systems for other applications so they might have a solution in hand for the 09 CRF already. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

 

[Spokes574]

.. .......

 

[J-man]

You have heard bad about the 09 CRF450R? I have only heard great things the one thing i heard that is an issue is it takes a few more kicks than a carburated bike......

 

[Spokes574]

Rich,
I got the answers about the pipe from the manufacturer today:
Pre/Post dyno curve is based on using stock fuel mapping!
No need to alter fuel map to get good performance results.
PIM piggy back onto original ECU box is targeted Feb. release will give approx. 1-2hp gains. Default map setup will be California conditions 1K ft elevations. User will have to alter if do not live in California, and also at extreme temp differences. If do not alter only get ¼-1/2 hp improvement. This is intended for racers trying to squeeze out every little bit out of the engine by optimizing.

To the other comment that only heard great reviews, I have all the magazines and when you stack it up the following comes out:
-Rear end super tall which throws off balance feel, must run a lot of sag to balance out and if run a lot of sag that erases the goal of the frame changes honda intended.
Fix: linkage $225 or a spacer put into the shock(most suspension guys are doing the spacer thing- though I do not like that approach $125)
-turning/Overstearing is hampered by high rear end that puts a lot of weight bias on front forks (diving) so suggest stiffer springs in front ~$123
-Engine top end is flat - no over rev. All slip on pipes added overev to the bike. ~$450

All of the above are and were simple fixes - just cost some money ~$700+.
That is the reason why not all magazines gave it #1 rating. When you have to put coin in to fix problems that is an issue.

Recall? Well after investigating some more this is what I found out:
Honda service has not recieved any bullitens yet.
Those guys getting their bikes fixed are getting it done with the stock parts at present.
Those guys all purchased their bikes from the same dealer who also has one of the largest engine hop-up shops in motocross. I do not want to mention their name because I do not want to bad mouth them, they generally do great work, just very expensive.

I am assuming that the dealership is fixing the bikes free since their hop-up shop modified their engines. I will assume that possibly when the engines were modified, that the pin was not put in correctly. The engines are new and everyone is still learning how to service them. This hop up shop does have/sponsor a race team for the past couple of years.

Spokes574
Pleasanton, California

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Rich,
I got the answers about the pipe from the manufacturer today:
Pre/Post dyno curve is based on using stock fuel mapping!
No need to alter fuel map to get good performance results.

Are you running just the Yosh head pipe, just the Yosh canister, or a full system?

 

[dirt bike dave]

How important is over-rev on an MX 450?

For the $450 that a canister costs, I think I could learn to live with a little less over-rev. Maybe over the course of a season, that lack of over-rev would cost me one position on the track. Doubtful, but I guess it's possible.

Personally, I'd ride the bike a few times and play with the clickers and sag to see if I could get used to the 'high rear end that throws off the balance', and the 'too soft fork springs'.

Maybe after a few rides, stock, you will find the bike Honda made suits you better than it does some magazine test rider. And you can save your $700.

 

[Spokes574]

Rich,
I am running the full system because it improves performance over just the slip on.
Slip On gave mid to top improvement - 2hp on top and way more over-rev
Full system gave some torque on bottom - in addtion to improving mid and top, more than the slip on. ~4hp on top (not the full range on top but peak.)

I think all the after market pipes help with the over-rev, they are all longer than stock and long exhaust helps with over-rev.

Spokes574

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I think all the after market pipes help with the over-rev, they are all longer than stock and long exhaust helps with over-rev.

Spokes574

You have that backwards.

When you increase the tuned length of the pipe you shift the area under the torque peak to a lower rpm range and tend limit the peak rpm horsepower.

Knowing how little was available in the exhaust system on every 450 over the last 7 years I find it really difficult to believe that Yoshimura found 4 horsepower in the exhaust on an engine this highly developed even with an ECU remap.

With out any changes to the ECU... :whoa: well let's just say I have more faith in verifiable science than some marketing department's wet dream so you can mark me down as highly skeptical. ;)

I hope it works out for you and you get the results you are shooting for.

If you ever get the chance to compare the OEM exhaust with the Yosh system back to back I hope you'll post your results.

Thanks for sharing the info on this. :cool:

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Yoshimura was usually pretty good about having accurate dyno tests to back up their products. Or, something got lost in translation, maybe even a fine print thing. Their on line technical support is better than sales adds. I need to confirm that a guy I knows buddy had his motor worked on from some west coast shop. It had something come loose on top and fell down, not good! The he said she said, and as I remember it, was with the compression release.

 

[Chili]

Recall? Well after investigating some more this is what I found out:
Honda service has not recieved any bullitens yet.
Those guys getting their bikes fixed are getting it done with the stock parts at present.
Those guys all purchased their bikes from the same dealer who also has one of the largest engine hop-up shops in motocross. I do not want to mention their name because I do not want to bad mouth them, they generally do great work, just very expensive.

I've seen numerous reports of failed decompressor plungers from all over the world on stock engines, don't think this is related to aftermarket engine modifications at one particular shop.

Some feel it may be idle related although I can't say I spent enough time figuring out why they feel that way. Most are advocating making sure the idle is at 1800 rpm.

All have reported that Honda took care of the repair with no expense to the owner.

 

[2strokerfun]

Not all the magazines are rating the Honda #1, largely because of stated "flaws." I guarantee the bike in stock condition would be better in every area than I am capable of exploiting. Just how much over rev do "most" people need?

 

[jason33]

maybe non performance , but for sound,and size/weight thing