Death of the 125 - what will be the last 125 year?

When do you think the big 4 (CR, YZ, KX, RM) will produce their last 125cc 2-strokes?

  • 2004

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • 2005

    Votes: 22 3.3%

  • 2006

    Votes: 125 18.5%

  • 2007

    Votes: 87 12.9%

  • 2008 or later

    Votes: 164 24.3%

  • The 125cc 2-stroke will stick around for at least 10 more years

    Votes: 274 40.6%
  • Total voters
    675
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Y

yzguy15

Sprayin tha game
N. Texas SP
Oct 27, 2000
1,271
0

What a well thought out and articulate response. :|
 
D

dante

Member
Mar 24, 2004
555
0
The AMA does makes strange decisions at times that don't make any sence at all... For example in the Middle weight classes for road racing they allow inline four cylendar bikes to have no more than 400cc yet if you have a v twin you can go up to 650cc

The Suzuki SV650 stock with a pipe and jet kit puts out more power than you can squise out of an ama legal inline 400cc engine no matter what you do to it... Thay basically made an all SV650 class when it used to be allot more variety allot more bikes...

Also folks with years and years spent on race bikes over night are not competitive... Plus they are'nt worth much anymore cause who wants to buy a used race bike that is'nt competive all because of some AMA big wig making changes...

same deal either buy a four stroke to race or be happy to be the first 2 stroke racing for next to last place...
 
C

crazy_man

N. Texas SP
Member
Mar 2, 2005
118
0
i thank yamaha for putting some serios r&d into thier 05 yz125 cause that is the last dirt bike i will get for about 10 years yamaha is trying to keep the twostroke alive
 

nikki

Moto Junkie
Apr 21, 2000
5,802
1
O

OTHG_DAVE_858

Member
Feb 18, 2005
193
0
None of this will mean anything if we can't ride because of noise limits. I think all manufacturers should jump on the quieter bike bandwagon asap. No place to ride means no sales, 2 stroke or 4.
Ok, I think by 08 its bye bye 125. Get yours now and mount it, on the track or on the wall.
 

nikki

Moto Junkie
Apr 21, 2000
5,802
1
Want to bring this back from the dead.... another interesting fact. After the first two rounds of 2006 SX (Anaheim 1 and Phoenix), there were about 160 bikes who tried to qualify in the Lites class. ALL 250F's. Not a single reed valve to be found.

Yeah, I know the 144 thing is a band-aid, and the schoolboy class is just about the only other thing giving the 125 sales any hope.... but, man... it's pretty obvious, if you want to be competitive against 250F's, you need to be on one.

I also heard a rumor that Pastrana might race a SX this year, or a RM125. That would be interesting. :think:
 
B

benloos404

Member
Jan 19, 2006
17
0
I still think it is most if not all rider.... look at stewart he would still work anybody in the lites class with an out dated 125 2 stroke. :yikes:
 
Z

Zenith

Member
Jan 11, 2001
483
0
Well if the new AMA Amateur rules get passed by the board in November the 125s will no longer have to race against 250fs, which should change things a bit! 250fs will now have to compete with 250 2 strokes, which will probably improve the sales of 250s for a while as some perceive them to have an advantage over the 250f...

At Pro level though who knows. These new rules won't apply there, but maybe the manufacturers will try to get some of their riders back on the two strokes to improve Amateur sales in the new classes.
 
C

cr125freak

Member
Jul 11, 2005
216
0
it will leave soon (im a 2 stroke lover) until someone races a old 250 2stroke against a 250 fourstroke,, Then it will be the "2 stroke revolution" of course a 4poke can be fast if its 450ccs..... if the displacement issue was equal (250vs250) the 2 stroke would obviously win. Hopefully someone will make a 450 2stroke and try to race in the 250class(really 450 class)
 

kawicam250

I bleed green!
Member
Aug 7, 2006
1,162
0


or, maybe someone like service honda will revise the old 500 2t's and make them competitive with 450's. read the above post and the thread "Good news for smokers, bad news for thumpers". starting Jan. 1 '07, the 125 and 250 2t sales will be born again. the 2t's will continue to be with us for a considerable amount of time. soon it will be the opposite, people will start asking when will the thumpers die out? the displacement will be equal for amatuer racing beginning next year.
 

Rich Rohrich

Moderator / BioHazard
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 27, 1999
22,839
16,904
Chicago
kawicam250 said:
o soon it will be the opposite, people will start asking when will the thumpers die out
Click to expand...

LOL, time to put down the glue and get some fresh air. :coocoo:
 
O

Octane250F

Uhhh...
Oct 21, 2006
174
0
I think that '08 will be the last year for the 125 (and maybe for the 250 as well). Even if the rules change for the amateur classes, the OEMs will still put their r&d money into 4-strokes because thats what the pros ride.
I personally think that even in amateur racing that 2-strokes will soon die out. IMO, a 250F can run with a 250 smoker. Riders on 250Fs are turning almost the same laptimes as riders on 450s.
I still think you will see 2-stroke bikes in FMX because of their lighter weight, but in MX/SX Id say that the 2-stroke's days are numbered.
 

kdxtodd

Member
Nov 14, 2001
269
0

give me a BREAK! The manufactures still sell large numbers of 2-strokes. Your 2008 guess of the demise of 2-strokes is premature. :coocoo:

4-strokes are for lawnmowers. :nener:
 

hellbertos

Member
Feb 17, 2004
128
0
Unfortunately, I think the end will come, though I'll fight it every step of the way... not that I dislike 4-strokes, but I enjoy riding 2Ts and appreciate the affordability of owning, maintaining, hop up parts, etc.

The truely unfortunate thing, in my opinion, is that the geniuses at the AMA made the decision for everyone. I forget who said it earlier in this thread, but yeah, if you want to be competitive against a 250F, you need to be on one... well, or be on a 250 2T and have an advantage; not unlike 250F's have over 125s. It seems obvious by now that the AMA threw a dart at some numbers and picked 250cc (and 450cc) engine displacement which, given modern 4T technology, was too much to make it an equal fight.

The point I am trying to make is, becasue they legalized more powerful bikes in their pro racing classes (and by default amature classes) they set the ground work that the manufacturers will follow w/ their racing programs. Thus the manufacturers have less incentive to develop a bike which won't be at the top of the podium. That doesn't mean 125's are slow, it means they are at a disadvantage (unless an exceptional talent like Bubba is on one). Once again, the AMA blew it, but this time for the masses that ride.

Fortunately, not everybody races and even some that race will still ride 2Ts for fun, training or even as a race bike. Personally, I think the AMA had an opprotunity to do something interesting/ground breaking for pro motocross by integrating 4Ts into main-stream motocross while keeping 2T technology going... but given the enormous displacement advantage and w/o some creativity of additional/separate classes they have really put a dark shadow over all the 2T world... even those who'd like both 2 and 4T.

Here's to hoping KTM, Yamaha and Suzuki keep their 2Ts alive!!!! ...and local tracks adopt 2-stroke classes allow for equal competition...
 
Last edited:
O

Octane250F

Uhhh...
Oct 21, 2006
174
0
kdxtodd said:
give me a BREAK! The manufactures still sell large numbers of 2-strokes. Your 2008 guess of the demise of 2-strokes is premature. :coocoo:

4-strokes are for lawnmowers. :nener:
Click to expand...
Maybe so. I fail to see how they still sell a lot of 2-strokes considering that 8 out of every 10 bikes at the tracks here in Wisconsin are 4-strokes.
Either way, it will be interesting to see what happens. :cool:
 
J

Jim Havins

Member
Oct 30, 2001
50
0
My crystal ball says that all the 125's will disappear. They will be replaced by 144's. Supercross and Arenacross will have a 144 (125) class and a 250 class (2 and 4 stroke). Motocross will stay the same as it is..144's will be allowed in the "lites" class. Unfortunately, the 250 two stroke won't be used much in pro outdoors but will dominate outdoors.......unless they allow overbore and stroker kits for the 250's.
 
N

Nevada Sixx

Member
Jan 14, 2000
1,033
0
that would be awsome to have a factory built 144, wouldnt that mean it would be more than just a larger piston and jug, maybe a new crank case.... wouldnt a longer rod lenght have alot to do with how a bike runs?
 
D

dunemasta

Member
Oct 26, 2006
1
0
this thread talking about the death of two strokes makes me sad cuz all ive ever ridden have been 2 strokes. if theres one thing ill miss its gonna be the annoying whine of the 125's
 
Z

Zenith

Member
Jan 11, 2001
483
0
Actually I'd be interested to hear what Rich/Eric etc. have to say on the longer stroke possibilities of a 144 from the factory? Would there be any benefits? What would the effects be on the power of the bike?
 
R

rockcrawlerdude

Member
Sep 30, 2005
15
0
ive been hearing rumors about direct injection is the wave of the future for 2 strokes(kicking the crud out of epa/CARB testing) anyone else hear of this??
 
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