Jackpiner57
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 11, 2002
- 356
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:laugh: But my KDX pulls my 46 yr old 200 lb. arse around quite speedily. I have no need for these "four strokes".
Death of the 125 - what will be the last 125 year?
- Thread starter nikki
- Start date
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110 octain
Member
- May 10, 2004
- 15
- 0
i think it will be soon sadly....y would any 1 say a 250f is better than a 125 2-stroke
if they were beter a 250f would of won a supper-cross championship at least 1 time
its like a 100lb person saying to mike tison (i can beat u up) iv never don it befor but il beat u up...........it has never happend and it never will so y do u think a 4-stroke is better than a 2 its stopid
if they were beter a 250f would of won a supper-cross championship at least 1 time
its like a 100lb person saying to mike tison (i can beat u up) iv never don it befor but il beat u up...........it has never happend and it never will so y do u think a 4-stroke is better than a 2 its stopid
nikki
Moto Junkie
- Apr 21, 2000
- 5,802
- 1
- Thread starter
- #233
More food for thought.....
Out of the 40 bike High Point 125 Pro MX gate, there were 4 125's and 36 250F's. 1 KX 125 (Bubba-1st), 2 KTM 125's (Hughes-10th & Metcalfe-21st), and 1 RM 125 (Costella-33rd).
And over half of the 250 class was on 4-strokes as well. 17 CRF 450's, 8 YZ 450F's, 1 KTM 450, 14 250's (7 RM, 4 YZ, 2 KX, 1 CR).
Out of the 40 bike High Point 125 Pro MX gate, there were 4 125's and 36 250F's. 1 KX 125 (Bubba-1st), 2 KTM 125's (Hughes-10th & Metcalfe-21st), and 1 RM 125 (Costella-33rd).
And over half of the 250 class was on 4-strokes as well. 17 CRF 450's, 8 YZ 450F's, 1 KTM 450, 14 250's (7 RM, 4 YZ, 2 KX, 1 CR).
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
This thread is definitely a 2 vs 4 thing, so....
No doubt the 4 is a great motorcycle. But anyone (and that seems to be most here) who thinks the 2 is going away are ....well, wrong . ;)
05 RM125 is new from the ground up. New chassis--everything new. New motor from the cases up. Everything on the 125 is new. It doesn't even look like last year's bike. Obviously, Suzuki has no plans to snuff it, and still has some respect for the 2. This may be because they're just sticking around to fill a small niche, but I doubt it.
KX250 is pretty much all new, as well. The motor wasn't reworked-- I think it's actually new, but I don't know for sure.
Yamaha is continually making forward changes on the YZ125.
Honda probably won't bother with the CR125. Great bike, but they're probably realizing they can't get any more out of it (a la Al frame?). I hope they develop the CR250.
KTM will always have both. They pretty much always have, right? (with the exception of 125 class)
Mumblings have it that many more pros will be switching back to the 2 next year (no, I don't have specific sources, but heard 'generalities' like that when Coombs was on DMXS, and during the internet broadcast of a recent race (possibly Southwick), etc.). True? Maybe...maybe not. Wouldn't be any reason to even talk about it if there wasn't at least some truth to it.
Like I've said before--they'll coexist. Furthermore, I think we'll be seeing more teams taking both for each rider to every race to test on (following laptimes). Why haven't they done this yet? You don't HAVE to ride the same bike for every race. Seems silly that they haven't tried that. ....or, could it be possible that Bubba is faster on a 125 than a 250f on every track thus far?
Some of that is fact, most of it 'drivel' as RR would say. It's just the way I see it. Remember that this is all about having fun, so I don't need to be reminded that most of that was speculation. We're just playin'.
No doubt the 4 is a great motorcycle. But anyone (and that seems to be most here) who thinks the 2 is going away are ....well, wrong . ;)
05 RM125 is new from the ground up. New chassis--everything new. New motor from the cases up. Everything on the 125 is new. It doesn't even look like last year's bike. Obviously, Suzuki has no plans to snuff it, and still has some respect for the 2. This may be because they're just sticking around to fill a small niche, but I doubt it.
KX250 is pretty much all new, as well. The motor wasn't reworked-- I think it's actually new, but I don't know for sure.
Yamaha is continually making forward changes on the YZ125.
Honda probably won't bother with the CR125. Great bike, but they're probably realizing they can't get any more out of it (a la Al frame?). I hope they develop the CR250.
KTM will always have both. They pretty much always have, right? (with the exception of 125 class)
Mumblings have it that many more pros will be switching back to the 2 next year (no, I don't have specific sources, but heard 'generalities' like that when Coombs was on DMXS, and during the internet broadcast of a recent race (possibly Southwick), etc.). True? Maybe...maybe not. Wouldn't be any reason to even talk about it if there wasn't at least some truth to it.
Like I've said before--they'll coexist. Furthermore, I think we'll be seeing more teams taking both for each rider to every race to test on (following laptimes). Why haven't they done this yet? You don't HAVE to ride the same bike for every race. Seems silly that they haven't tried that. ....or, could it be possible that Bubba is faster on a 125 than a 250f on every track thus far?
Some of that is fact, most of it 'drivel' as RR would say. It's just the way I see it. Remember that this is all about having fun, so I don't need to be reminded that most of that was speculation. We're just playin'.
Mxracer695
Member
- Jan 5, 2002
- 53
- 0
Yea yamaha just put all that r&d into there 125 and 250 especially the 125 that thing got remade i didnt see any frame changes to there 4 strokes.
I too belive honda will be the first to drop the cr125 but when has honda ever had a good cr 125
I too belive honda will be the first to drop the cr125 but when has honda ever had a good cr 125
cr2504life
Member
- May 17, 2004
- 141
- 0
I was talking to on of the guys at the local honda shop where they dont' have any two strokes instock. He told me that next year was going to be the last for all CR's. Personally i think he doesnt' know what he is talking about.
ride yz 250
Member
- Aug 16, 2004
- 10
- 0
never stop 2 strokes
No one wints 125's its not that the 4 strokes it is the 250's 125's are not worth the money but they are better that 4 strokes they will make 2 strokes forever
No one wints 125's its not that the 4 strokes it is the 250's 125's are not worth the money but they are better that 4 strokes they will make 2 strokes forever
I see alot of people on here talking about how two-strokes are being outlawed. Based on everything I've seen regarding the new EPA regulations this is simply not true. I have seen no wording in the law that specifically "bans" any type of engine, they just have tighter emissions standards that no two-stroke motorcycle is currently able to meet. Of course, most, if not all, of the new MX racing four-strokes are not able to meet these standards either, at least not yet. Also, several manufacturers who make engines for snowmobiles and outboard motors are already producing clean-burning two-stroke engines that DO meet the new EPA emission standards and are allegedly cleaner than the current four-strokes.
The AMA and the manufacturers may be the ones that ultimately kill the two-stroke(if it does happen), not the EPA. With the new unleaded fuel rule(courtesy of the FIM, not the EPA) and the seemingly excessive engine displacement advantage of the four-strokes, I think we can thank the AMA for the current state of the two-stroke. Steve Whitelock, head cop for AMA Pro Racing, has even said that the power advantage that the four-strokes currently have(especially the 250F's) needs to be looked into and some changes may need to be made in the future.
There also seems to be an increasingly strong movement of riders going from four-strokes back to two-strokes, as evidenced by this thread- http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=100221 . Many people are concerned about the added complexity and increased maintenance cost of the racing four-strokes. And, as "worst-case-scenario" engine problems become more common, the trend is likely to continue.
Whether you love them or hate them, the death of the two-stroke would be a loss for all riders and yet another in a long line of wins for the greenies.:|
Long live dirtbikes, regardless of stroke! :cool:
P.S.- As far as I can tell, the new emissions standards would not apply to use on private land(since it doesn't effect "competition bikes" and competitors have to practice, right). Any lawyers out there who could help us out on this one?
The AMA and the manufacturers may be the ones that ultimately kill the two-stroke(if it does happen), not the EPA. With the new unleaded fuel rule(courtesy of the FIM, not the EPA) and the seemingly excessive engine displacement advantage of the four-strokes, I think we can thank the AMA for the current state of the two-stroke. Steve Whitelock, head cop for AMA Pro Racing, has even said that the power advantage that the four-strokes currently have(especially the 250F's) needs to be looked into and some changes may need to be made in the future.
There also seems to be an increasingly strong movement of riders going from four-strokes back to two-strokes, as evidenced by this thread- http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=100221 . Many people are concerned about the added complexity and increased maintenance cost of the racing four-strokes. And, as "worst-case-scenario" engine problems become more common, the trend is likely to continue.
Whether you love them or hate them, the death of the two-stroke would be a loss for all riders and yet another in a long line of wins for the greenies.:|
Long live dirtbikes, regardless of stroke! :cool:
P.S.- As far as I can tell, the new emissions standards would not apply to use on private land(since it doesn't effect "competition bikes" and competitors have to practice, right). Any lawyers out there who could help us out on this one?
Thought i may as well chip in and give a bit of perspective from the Uk. I know that doesn't have much relevance to you guys in the US but just thought you might be interested.
The british champs are right now 4 stroke dominated with a couple of guys on 2 strokes in both the MX1 and MX2 class.
What i have seen is that in the 125 class (MX2) the 125's mix it up really well with the 250f's. what is making the big difference in championship standings is 4 strokes blowing up, breaking down, seizing up and generally just faaling to a heap.
no probs for the factory riders but there are a fair few amatuers in the series who have waved goodbye to their 250f's and goodbye to the series for another year cause they simply cannot afford to carry on (£1500 is a lot of money to spend on a top end rebuild)
politically, things aren't as tough here in the UK, the goverment aren't really as concerned about the emmisions, our fight is with the country side alliance who are demanding that green lanes (trails) are closed to off roaders and that has a big effect on our race tracks and practice tracks.
if anything is gonna affect Mx in this country it will be down to the Ramblers and hikers who want anything green and hilly all to themselves.
This fight has been going on for years but the past 2 years it has stepped up a gear because now the Country side alliance have something new to add into the mix...Noise pollution. sadly they have realised that the sudden surge of four strokes everyone is buying are much much louder and that means the goverment have to start listening to what they have to say all over again which in turn means more problems for us.
tracks are being closed all the time because of noise pollution, people are just point blank refusing to put up with it which gives land owners no choice but to abandon MX.
For me, in this country the 2 stroke has to carry on living because it if it doesn't MX could come to a steady halt in the Uk.
I also think that most riders who have jumped on the bandwagon and bought a four stroke will soon come back to 2 strokes because they can see politically what is happening and also are finnally realising that their earnings also have to buy food and water aswell as four stroke maintenance.
I'm always gonna be on a 2 stroke and i think most people are foolish for thinking that four strokes are the future.
The british champs are right now 4 stroke dominated with a couple of guys on 2 strokes in both the MX1 and MX2 class.
What i have seen is that in the 125 class (MX2) the 125's mix it up really well with the 250f's. what is making the big difference in championship standings is 4 strokes blowing up, breaking down, seizing up and generally just faaling to a heap.
no probs for the factory riders but there are a fair few amatuers in the series who have waved goodbye to their 250f's and goodbye to the series for another year cause they simply cannot afford to carry on (£1500 is a lot of money to spend on a top end rebuild)
politically, things aren't as tough here in the UK, the goverment aren't really as concerned about the emmisions, our fight is with the country side alliance who are demanding that green lanes (trails) are closed to off roaders and that has a big effect on our race tracks and practice tracks.
if anything is gonna affect Mx in this country it will be down to the Ramblers and hikers who want anything green and hilly all to themselves.
This fight has been going on for years but the past 2 years it has stepped up a gear because now the Country side alliance have something new to add into the mix...Noise pollution. sadly they have realised that the sudden surge of four strokes everyone is buying are much much louder and that means the goverment have to start listening to what they have to say all over again which in turn means more problems for us.
tracks are being closed all the time because of noise pollution, people are just point blank refusing to put up with it which gives land owners no choice but to abandon MX.
For me, in this country the 2 stroke has to carry on living because it if it doesn't MX could come to a steady halt in the Uk.
I also think that most riders who have jumped on the bandwagon and bought a four stroke will soon come back to 2 strokes because they can see politically what is happening and also are finnally realising that their earnings also have to buy food and water aswell as four stroke maintenance.
I'm always gonna be on a 2 stroke and i think most people are foolish for thinking that four strokes are the future.
trailboy125
Member
- Aug 24, 2004
- 90
- 0
i think in 3 years people are gonna miss the snappyness and characteristics of a 2 stroke and everybody is gonna come back. But just one question, why cant the ama boot the 250 four strokes out of the 125 class and put them somewhere else or like someone else said limit the four strokes to 200 or 225.
zeppelinrider
Member
- Aug 23, 2004
- 9
- 0
I hope they stick around forever. I would continue to buy them for my kids just cause thats what i grew up riding with. but thats just me. hopefully stay for another 10+ years.
Edit: I totally agree with trailboy. Why not make a 250 4 stroke division and a 450 4 stroke. I would like to see that but it probably wont happen.My 2 cents...
Edit: I totally agree with trailboy. Why not make a 250 4 stroke division and a 450 4 stroke. I would like to see that but it probably wont happen.My 2 cents...
kdxtodd
Member
- Nov 14, 2001
- 269
- 0
Hola fellow dirt bikers from a brick hut in lima peru! wow this poll is still up and running. 3 months of no dirt bike news has been hard. but its good to know that the 05 2-strokers are going to be awesome! especially the kx250, mi amor. hasta luego, long live the 2-strokes!!!
smahala1286
Member
- Sep 9, 2004
- 200
- 0
I don’t get why people think these thumpers are so awesome, I will think they are cool when they can make a 125 four stroke that runs in the 125 class and keeps up with the 125 two strokes, I think that it is retarded to put a 250 in a 125 class just because it is a four stroke. It would be sad not to see an engine (4stroke) double the size of its opponent (2stroke) not win, If all you thumper people think that your bikes are all refined and that they have come such a long way since the yz400f they why are your 250 bikes running with the 125 two strokes and still getting a challenge from what is left of the 125's. I think that the whole four-stroke craze is just a fad and people will realize one day that two strokes will always be the ultimate Motocross bike.
I don't remember where I read that 2005 will be the last year for CR125. I wish that I was wrong because I love 2-stroke bikes.
I stopped to go to races last year (I'm 38) and for me is more important to enjoy when I ride than to be faster or slower, and diversion is all what my 2-stroke CR250 gives me and all what I need.
I stopped to go to races last year (I'm 38) and for me is more important to enjoy when I ride than to be faster or slower, and diversion is all what my 2-stroke CR250 gives me and all what I need.
I've recently rediscovered the wonderful world of dirt biking. While trying to decide what bike to purchase, I was quite stunned to find that 4-strokers seem to rule the roost now. I too think it's quite unfair to allow 250cc 4-stroke bikes to compete against 125cc 2-strokes- no matter the logic used to justify it.
I've looked very hard at all of the new(er) 4-strokes and can't get comfortable with the thought of owning any of them. At this point I'm quite certain I'll look for a well cared for, vintage 2-stroke bike enduro-type bike to satisfy my dirt riding cravings. Give me a mid-70's Bultaco, Maico, Husqvarna, or Penton and I'll be one happy camper!
I love the smell of pre-mix in the morning!! :aj: Let's hope the fumes hang around for years to come.
I've looked very hard at all of the new(er) 4-strokes and can't get comfortable with the thought of owning any of them. At this point I'm quite certain I'll look for a well cared for, vintage 2-stroke bike enduro-type bike to satisfy my dirt riding cravings. Give me a mid-70's Bultaco, Maico, Husqvarna, or Penton and I'll be one happy camper!
I love the smell of pre-mix in the morning!! :aj: Let's hope the fumes hang around for years to come.
i was pondering the thought of ordering a new 07cr250.so i went to talk to a local dealer over here,and he told me the cr250 will not be available in here japan after 06. :pissed: it seems honda wants to spend all its money on the 4strokes.which,isnt such a bad thing,i just love the scream of a 250 2stroke. looks like i will be keeping my 01cr250. :|
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