Duramax Diesel Questions

[EBOD]

I was looking at GM pickups. I'm trying to buy an '02 because of the great incentives, but there are very few '02s left (if the dealer takes advantage of their scarcity, I'll just wait).

I was just at a dealer who had a 2500 crew cab in the color/trim package I like. However, it had the Duramax Diesel and the 5-speed automatic (which is the only auto available with the diesel), which ads about $5k to the price. I'd love to hear any thoughts on the following questions:

-- How is the diesel as a daily driver (the most "work" the truck will do is carrying a few bikes and some gear)? It has a lot of horsepower and a ton of torque, but they are at very low RPMs--does that adversely affect drivability?

-- Because I don't haul a heavy trailer and I don't drive that many miles a year, am I totally stupid to get the diesel? I know the fuel economy to price difference comparison doesn't justify the the added cost, but what about in terms of drivability, finding fuel, etc.

-- Similarly, am I stupid to get the crew cab. I do have a wife and three kids, but an extended cab would hold them pretty well. Is the longer crew cab that much harder to drive around town?

Thanks for any thoughts.

By the way, I drove a Sierra Denali with that "quadrasteer" four wheel steering. That is a slick feature (but the Denali trim is ugly). I may wait for it to be available on non-Denali trucks. Does anyone know if you can use big tires (e.g., 285/75s) with that system?

--EBOD

 

[Neil Wig]

We rent 3/4 ton, crew cab trucks regularily. I prefer the chev duramax 4x4 version. They are FUN to drive, good power, maybe a little tight in some parking spots. I have a short box extended cab 1/2 ton chev, and don't find much difference with the crew cab, duramax.
Definitely on my X-Mass list.

 

[Lemming]

I may not be the best person to respond to this but I'll give you my initial impressions of owning a diesel (F-250 Crew, 4X4 PSD, 2002 purchased 10 days ago and 1K miles so far) my former truck was an F-150 4.6L extended cab.

I got the diesel mostly for hauling my bike trailer on weekends. For that purpose the truck rocks. However, for in town driving I've found it to be more of a pain than my former 150. Why, well it's larger, doesn't fit into some parking garages, and is tough to park in anything but a big parking spot. It also doesn't accelerate as quickly in town and is much louder. Therefore for around town running, I'll probably still use the car.

I'm not planning on putting alot of miles on the truck each year (about 10K). However at that rate the diesel should last forever. Also, my grand plan is to pick up a toy-hauler in a about 2 years (that's how long it will take me to talk the wife into it), so the diesel is again the ticket for me.

 

[Patman]

The DMAX is a much more "car-like" truck engine than the Powerstroke or Cummins diesels. It's is much quieter and makes it's power at the higher RPM range hooked to the 5 speed Allison auto it will be very gasser like. Diesels don't like short run trips, it will "wear" one out faster than letting it run all the time. Oil changes are going to put a new perspective on sticker shock for you. MY Powerstroke takes 4 GALLONS that's 16 quarts! Maintenance is also more, fuel filters need to be changed about every 10K and while pretty easy it NEEDS done. If you go out of warranty the reapirs get spendy REALLY REALLY fast. Fuel CAN be an issue in both availability and quality. All that said for MY use I have the perfect truck. Mine is just now 2 yaers old and I have 51K on it. I have a flat bed trailer that I haul anything from my John Deere to 10,000 pounds of rock on for landscaping at the house. I solved the less than stellar drivability issues with a programmer (like a chip). I added a sub-micronic oil filtration system and send oil samples off ever 10K when I change the oil just to have backup that I'm well within the operating parameters and to keep any warranty dismissal issues at bay plus it tells me if something is going wrong before it becomes a problem. If I were going to only drive 10-12K a year, haul mostly dirt bikes and kids then a Ford F150 SuperCrew with 5.4L, Dodge Ram 1500 quad with the 5.7 Hemi or GM 1500HD crew cab with the 6.0 gas motor would be in my driveway. I laugh at the people that buy a big dually and then never load more than a 2x4 in the back or pull a trailer that would fit in the back. I guess if it makes them feel powerful with 6 tires it's all good :silly:

 

[Optik]

Go with the diesel, you can used marked fuel easier with one.

 

[NVR FNSH]

I'm on my second diesel pick-up - first was a '96 Dodge Cummins, current is a '00 Dodge Cummins. Both are/were 4wd club/quad cab long beds with 5/6 spd sticks. For hauling dirtbikes you can't beat a long bed diesel pick-up IMO. I've never had an issue with fuel availability. With >400 mile range you've got to be an idiot to run out of fuel. I lived in Palos Verdes, Manhattan Bch & Long Beach - never had a problem finding diesel. I bought my truck(s) knowing that I would keep them for 10+ years and would be towing a trailer eventually. My dad 'stole' the '96 from me so I had to buy the '00. I now have a 36ft 5th wheel that I tow. Around town any full size truck is a PITA and as Patman said the short trips are the worst for a diesel. My commute is 5 miles so I drive an '85 Toyota 4wd for a daily driver. Until March I was driving the Dodge and it didn't even warm up on the trip.....

A friend of mine has the truck you're looking at & I thought it was a great truck. The crew cab is awfully nice - your kids may fit in a extra cab now but they will get bigger. My next truck will be a crew cab even if I don't have kids.

If I remember right it takes ~100k miles to break even on the diesel engine option. Personally, I don't think the maintenance associated with a diesel is a big deal.

Brian

 

[Lemming]

Extended cab vs Crew cab.

I really wanted the extended cab on my F250, but there were none in town so I went with the Crew. If you plan on hauling kids the crew will be great. I don't have kids and I liked being able to use the extended cab to haul stuff that I didn't want in the bed of the truck. With the F250 Crew the seat does not flip up and out of the way so placing big items in the back means that it's going on the seat. I may actually pull the backseat out of my crew cab.

 

[Neil Wig]

I use an '84 F250 exteded cab, long box, 4x4 diesel for a camping truck. I didn't put the back seat back in when I replaced the carpet. Without the back seat, a ford extended cab has a LOT of room back there.

 

[Highbeam]

To answer your questions,

- The diesel is great as a daily driver provided your drive is long enough to warm it up. For your comfort this means you will have a heater in the winter and for the engine this means the water can be boiled out of the oil. The duramax will run and drive just as good a couple minutes after start up as it does after a long day working. A diesel takes longer to warm up than a gas truck and leaving it idle in the driveway doesn't do the trick. I see more and more people driving these things to Safeway and work everyday.

The torque and power being in the low rpm range is actually the best part of the diesel. My gas 350 hardly ever sees revs above 3000 and usually cruises below 2000 rpms. Low end power is more useful for real world driving.

- There is more than one way to make back that 5000$ investment. Resale value, higher mpg, length of service without overhaul, etc. The diesel will come out ahead in the long run even if you don't build mileage real quick.

There is plenty diesel fuel available if you drive anywhere near a freeway. The extended range will allow more time between fill ups.

You may not tow a trailer now but look at the towing capability as a bonus to the superior mileage. When those kids start riding even a 3/4 ton gas truck is not stout enough for some of the toybox trailers.

"It is better to have and not need than to need and not have"

- I have an extended cab and wish I had a crew cab. The kids fit now but I doubt any full size people (your kids in a few years) will want to sit back there for any length of time. The crew cab only adds a small amount of length to the truck and I believe the fuel capacity is way higher with the crew cab.

Again, "It is better to have and not need than to need and not have"

The 03s are ugly, get an 02 if you can.

 

[bsmith]

I got the same story as NVR, and my next truck will be a crew cab vs the quadcab or extra cab, My 8 year daughter allready prods me in the back when we are driving around!
Don't kick my seat, did you hear me, Stop poking my back, did you hear meeeee :(

I use mine as a daily driver(25 mile) and my wife uses it to run across the state about 12 times a year for Horse shows. I probably put on 25k per year.

So in my opinion it sounds like if you have a Denali you can afford the diesel(nice stereotyping huh), and two, your not stupid to get the crew cab :thumb:

Plus get what you want, their is nothing worse then settling for something, then knowing you want something else.

 

[EBOD]

Originally posted by Highbeam

The 03s are ugly, get an 02 if you can.

I have not met one person (dealers who are out of '02s included) who likes the new Chevy front ends. I think the person at GM who made that design decision is really a spy for Ford. Of all the Avalanche's features, styling is the one least worthy of emulation.

Thanks for all of the input. I didn't know that diesels weren't really good for short trips. My one-way commute to work is about 5 miles, so it seems that I'm not the best candidate for the diesel (although logic and reason won't necessarily rule my purchase decision).

Does anyone know if the "quadra steer" option will be available on crew cabs? I get mixed answers (which are obviously guesses) when I talk to dealers. If so, maybe I'll wait and buy a GMC (sorry Chevy, but the front end is less ugly) 2500HD Crew Cab with "quadra steer" and the 6.0 (8.1???) liter gas engine.

Once again, DRN has proved to be my most valuable source of information!

 

[Patman]

I remember reading that they would offer the Q-steer on the lighter trucks but there were some problems they needed to address before using it on a heavy truck (I can imagine some scary load shift problems with a quick steer and tall & heavy load :eek: ). I do seem to remember it being available on the 1500HD CC which is a gas engine truck.

6.0 or 8.1? Company president had a 3/4 ton Avalanche with the 8.1 and it was a GREAT running truck (496ci it sure SHOULD) and was a towing machine. The rear visability was a real PITA so he traded it in on a 2500HD with the 6.0. Also a good runner and would serve your purposes pretty well as a commuter and hauler with the possibility of pulling a trailer once in a while. He has a 36' twin engine boat and while the 6.0 works to pull it he doesn't go running around the country with it so it works fine for him. Gas mileage is way better on his 6.0 than the 8.1 as well.

If your going to short run a diesel change the oil very often and get the first few analyzed by a lab to see if fuel or water contamination is an issue, it will save you money down the road.

 

[jeb]

I've got an 01 CC SB 4x4 Chevy 2500HD max/allison with 17k on it. It's a super fun and quick truck. I moved from a 99 2500 GMC 4x4 454 suburban to the max so the size is not all the much different for me as far as driving and parking. The max is a few inches longer and a bit taller but it still fits in 7' parking garages.

This is my first diesel and I really like it. Quiet, no smoke and awesome power from down low on up. It took it until about 14k to really get the bottom power fully developed but it's sure there now. Redline is only 3250rpm so it rips through the 5 gears pretty fast with an aggressive launch.

The max (like the PSD, I think) has a 100k mile engine and turbo warranty, BTW. Oil changes take 10 qts and are no big deal. I live in MN and did not plug it in one time last winter in our attached garage. Cold startups were a breeze but it does put out a lot of strong odors. I learned to pull it out of the garage immediately in the winter, shut the garage door and leave it idle for a minute or two before taking off.

I agree with highbeam about trade in and CC space. If you don't plan on driving a lot of miles on this truck before trading it, the premium may not be worth it, though. I'm getting 22mpg unloaded at 80mph, 17 all around town and 12-13 pulling my 19.5'x8.5' tall double axle enclosed trailer at 80mph. All those numbers are about double what I got from my 99 454. Mileage is the primary reason I got the truck and it's been a real win-win for me. The go pedal is just intoxicating on this thing! :)

 

[kev_rm]

duramax is first generation. no thanks. I'll take the powerstroke (high hp, quiet), then the cummins (hard core heavy duty, very loud). Both Proven.

 

[yo its matt!]

lots of great answers, i bought a 2002 hd2500 with an ext cab 4x4 with a 6.0l(would be nice to have 2 more doors to let the kids out) i couldnt justify the cost of the diesel vs the gas when i drive 12 k a year, the milage on the diesel is probably 4-6mpg better than a gas mine gets 14mpg with a 4.10 axle, mines a short bed so parking is ok wife can drive pull horse trailer etc ok, crew cab or long bed crew , i wouldnt even think about letter her try to park, the duramax is built by isuzu a world leader in diesels, we havent had any engine problems yet at our dealership, but then theres always monday!

 

[Birken Vogt]

See my other post regarding diesel somewhere in these forums.

Regarding diesel in general, I hava an '86 F-250 with a diesel and I can't sing the praises enough. It is super reliable, gets good economy for something that big and old, enough power, and it's just a good truck. Problems with that particular truck are the automatic's shifts which are downright violent, vibration at idle due to my custom super low idle speed, loud noise at freeway speed due to the 3 speed transmission, and the fact that the darn truck just won't wear out and give me an excuse to buy a newer one. 288,000 miles and counting. Heads rebuilt once, lower rebuilt never.

That Chevy should have all the good points and none of the bad, except in my opinion Chevy bodies aren't very well built....

 

[Moto Squid]

Earlier this year my dad got a 2001 3500 extended cab with the 6.0 liter....The two rear doors are such an improvement over the old extended cabs with out them, but the crew cab would be very nice. What would also be nice is the max/allison. We have to scream the 6 liter near redline to get moving and it's constantly down shifting to pull our 28 foot enclosed trailer. For the diesel pulling the trailer would be a walk in the park.

 

[Dan from HB]

Bottom line:
If you expect to tow heavy loads during the life of the truck, get the diesel. Otherwise, you are wasting $5K-7K.
Crew cab is the ticket if your kids will be over 10 yrs old during the life of the truck.
Q Steer was only available in 1500 series trucks, not 2500. That may change, but I haven't heard.
I tow 9500 lbs loaded (toybox trailer + bikes) and my sons are 17 and 19 yrs old. They won't fit in an extended cab for more than an hour or so. I will be selling my '94 Suburban w/7.4liter and getting a 2500HD with Duramax.
Dan

 

[Highbeam]

Sorry dude, I have to disagree. That's not my bottom line. It's allright if it's yours though.

If you plan to tow or drive very many miles than a diesel is a great investment of 5-7 thousand $. You must remember that you have a return on your investment, your truck will be worth more at resale even if you don't tow and it sits in the garage all it's life.

The money works out even better for car diesels. They don't tow loads but it makes great sense to buy a diesel due to the more useable power and fuel economy increase.

Plus they're cool.

 

[Neil Wig]

Well, comparing GM to Ford....
I have a '84 F250 diesel, and can safely say I'll never own another ford truck (maybe '79 sb fleet side Lariet 4x4). As mentioned above, Ford probably has a tougher body than GM, but it's also bio-degradeable. The 6.9 is a good engine, but the DuraMax will eat it alive. Even the Ford PSD can't compare to the poop of the DuraMax. And then you look at creature comforts and interior design....Ford's in the dark ages, and Dodge...well the '70s are over. The dodge suit case located on the right side of the driver (center consol) is outright UGLY.
But, opinions are like butt holes, every one has one, and they all stink...except mine :moon:

 

[01ktmmer]

I just got a 03 chevy hd2500 ext cab with the duramax and absolutley love it. Tons of power and quiet also. As far as being ugly, maybe you havent seen the right color. Besides its new so it might take a while to adjust to the new look. I would say get the diesel, you cant beat the fuel mileage and the longevity the motor offers. Just my two cents.

 

[Camstyn]

I like that dodge suit case.. It's huge! Tons of elbow and storage room..

 

[Boodac]

I just bought a 2500HD about 6 months ago and was seriously considering the Duramax until my buddy, a service manager at a Chevy dealeship, told me to avoid them for now. He stated that they have a few problems with the new diesel that the factory is working through. Not to mention that he claims rebuilding the Allison tranny comes with a hefty price tag. Couple that with the fact that both the Duramax and that particular Allsison Tranny is relatively new I decided against buying the combo. Im sure they have most if not all the problems resolved but I surely didnt want to become a guinea pig at that cost. Dont get me wrong, Im a Chevy man but you have to admit that the Cummins has been around a long time and other than being noisey most people I know sure like theirs. Its just too bad its in a Dodge.

 

[jeb]

There are forums like this for the GM trucks and some specific boards for the 'max. I read the posts for about a year and there are very, very few problems with this new motor. Some have some unsteady idle problems but it was rare to hear of a mechanical problem. Some of the folks posting over there work for GM, duramax/Izuzu and Allison so some great real information is available.

My 01 'max has been great for the first 17k miles. Not one trip back to the dealer for any problems other than having them flash the computer with some updates.

Allison has been making tranny's a long time. We just bought a new Class A Winne Adventurer last night and one of the big selling points to me was the fact that it has the same tranny my 'max has. Great unit. Spin on external filters, drain plug in the pan, engine braking and the Allison rep.

 

[01ktmmer]

Hey jeb, where could i find those discussion boards on the max? I too have a max/allison and couldnt be more happy with it, and have heard nothing but good things about it.Only have 1600 miles on it but man this thing is a work horse. Pulls my 16ft enclosed like a dream.