Ethanol-blend auto emissions no greener than gasoline

[robwbright]

For what it's worth, it's a canadian study:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/03/30/ethanol-emissions.html

 

[gwcrim]

Ethanol will never make it as an alternative fuel.

You heard it here first.

 

[KX02]

Yeah, it's all politics to make it look like we're doing something to get away from oil. It's alot more expensive to get fuel from corn and it's not as good anyway.

 

[Patman]

I actually hope it does catch on. I've got a FFV F150 and tried a tank of E85 a couple weeks ago. It cost less per gallon and the power increase wasn't huge but noticable. The down side was less MPG's but my results still favored E85 by about $0.05 per gallon. I'm sure the oil companies and OPEC will do everything possible to squash it catching on but if it were more available I'd sure use it more often.

 

[XRpredator]

I actually hope it does catch on. I've got a FFV F150 and tried a tank of E85 a couple weeks ago. It cost less per gallon . . .

I think the only reason it costs less per gallon (now, anyway) are the federal subsidies keeping the cost down.

Same thing with biodiesel . . . for now.

 

[KX02]

I think the only reason it costs less per gallon (now, anyway) are the federal subsidies keeping the cost down.

Same thing with biodiesel . . . for now.

exactly

 

[Okiewan]

Wait a minute.. the common rant is that "big government" is in bed with "big oil". Why would they subsidize alternatives?

 

[dales298]

Let the fun begin!

Dale

 

[Patman]

I think the only reason it costs less per gallon (now, anyway) are the federal subsidies keeping the cost down.

Same thing with biodiesel . . . for now.

Same with MANY aspects of our modern life. Automakers? Airlines? Oil & Gas? Farming? ......

Why not then bio-fuels as well?

 

[XRpredator]

Same with MANY aspects of our modern life. Automakers? Airlines? Oil & Gas? Farming? ......

Why not then bio-fuels as well?

yes, it ties into the farming aspect.

 

[76GMC1500]

Wait a minute.. the common rant is that "big government" is in bed with "big oil". Why would they subsidize alternatives?

Because big government is not in bed with big oil, it's actually in bed with ADM (Archer Daniels Midlam), big corn.

Oil has always been profitable enough that it can operate completely independently from the government. They never really needed to get in bed with anybody. Corn, on the other hand...

 

[KX02]

Yes the fed subsidizes farmers big time.

 

[allmoto616]

won't last?

Ethanol will never make it as an alternative fuel.

You heard it here first.

Oh yes it will... because the big whigs want it to. atleast until someone comes up with enough evidence to convince the ignorant public otherwise... and that takes a lot.

 

[gwcrim]

It won't take long to figure out how expensive running alky is. Very impractical, half the energy of gas, hard on parts.

Electric cars are where it's going to be. It will take a while. But electricity is plentiful and cheap. Just need to figure out better storage.

Check out this bad boy:

Tesla

 

[dirt bike dave]

But electricity is plentiful and cheap.

Unfortunately, it is not cheap here in California.

I can't wait until we get the political will to start building nuclear plants again. It would benefit the environment, reduce dependence on foreign sources and save us all heaps of money.

 

[trial_07]

It won't take long to figure out how expensive running alky is. Very impractical, half the energy of gas, hard on parts.

Electric cars are where it's going to be. It will take a while. But electricity is plentiful and cheap. Just need to figure out better storage.

Check out this bad boy:

Tesla

They forgot to mention: Very affordable starting at 93 000.00 $

 

[76GMC1500]

Batteries make for some very toxic waste, sometimes worse than nuclear.

 

[CRASH39]

well I am not convinced that ethanol is the best choice, they say it is and cheaper than gas. I fail to see that. Origanal gas price out here that I can rember was $1.89 per gal. nice price in something you need in volume. after the war started $2.25 per gal to $2.89 per gal. A constant bounce going up and down. The BBP had installed the ' cleaner, cheaper costing fuel ' pump of Ethanol.
I was like, cool budget fuel, I have a old car that could burn moon shine, no porblem. price per gal, $2.25, against price for regular gas, $2.50 per gal. as far as I am concerned the ethanol is such a cheap fuel by long shot that I filled up with the fossil fuel anyway......

 

[Patman]

So riddle me this...
Is it less expensive to locate, buy the land / rights, drill, build a pipeline & pumping station, transport across the ocean, possibly spill, unload, build a refinerey, process, store and transport crude oil / products

OR

grow a bio mass product, harvest, transport, process & store / transport a product all on out home turf?

A simplistic view maybe but crude comes from far away, bio mass comes from our home turf. I just don't see a bunch of radical Methodists taking control of the corn fields of Iowa and us bringing the military in to it. :)

BTW most of the infrastructure for crude has long been paid for by inflated prices so the energy companies are now making record profits AND cranking the price up.

Poke holes at will.

 

[MrLuckey]

Poke holes at will.

Any idea how much corn and therefore land mass it takes to produce enough fuel to make the slightest dent in the amount of oil this country uses? I don't have numbers but I'd bet my bottom dollar that 1 issue alone is enough to be a show stopper if you are talking about long term high volume answers to alternative fuels!

Remember you only get to harvest your corn once a year too.

 

[knowiam]

grow a bio mass product, harvest, transport, process & store / transport a product all on out home turf?

"Gee, Wally. Won't all this bio stuff make our taco shells cost more?" :nod:
Ken

 

[76GMC1500]

So riddle me this...
Is it less expensive to locate, buy the land / rights, drill, build a pipeline & pumping station, transport across the ocean, possibly spill, unload, build a refinerey, process, store and transport crude oil / products

OR

grow a bio mass product, harvest, transport, process & store / transport a product all on out home turf?

A simplistic view maybe but crude comes from far away, bio mass comes from our home turf. I just don't see a bunch of radical Methodists taking control of the corn fields of Iowa and us bringing the military in to it. :)

BTW most of the infrastructure for crude has long been paid for by inflated prices so the energy companies are now making record profits AND cranking the price up.

Poke holes at will.

From somebody directly involved in shipping, it costs pennies on the gallon to ship the oil.

Just so you know, it takes fossil fuels to make the alcohol. You know, diesel to run the tractors, natrual gas to make the heat to distill, etc... It may even take more BTU's of energy in fossil fuel to make x BTU's of ethanol than it does to make x BTU's of fossil fuels.

 

[Patman]

Good stabs but....
-I never said it had to replace 100% of our dino goo use. Besides not all vehicles can currently use E85 or something similar. Just switching diesel powered devices over to bio would make a huge impact which I'm sure could be supported with existing planted and unplanted fields.

-Yes I could see some food prices going up but how much would your taco shell have to cost to offset the difference? Me thinks quite a bit :laugh:

-Pennies on the gallon? I know there are 100 pennies in a dollar so there is a lot of wiggle room there. Besides if it is so inexpensive then why is it so expensive at the pump?

I don't think this is a 100% solution but sitting around like a bunch of sheep thinking we HAVE to wait until the decomposed dinosaurs dry up seems a sure route to failure. I've run both bio fuels in my vehicles that were certified for them and they work. They were also cheaper even though they were a bit less efficient. But bio diesel can easily be made from waste cooking oil, some lye, an old water heater, a few other things and 24 hours. Again not going to solve everyones need but it sure could start to make a dent in things AND get more people thinking about a solution instead of worried about the price of tacos :)

 

[XRpredator]

. . . radical Methodists taking control of the corn fields of Iowa . . .

Maybe we should detain them at Gitmo, just to be safe.

 

[Reesknight]

From somebody directly involved in shipping, it costs pennies on the gallon to ship the oil.

It also costs pennies on the gallon to drill the oil, pennies on the gallon to refine the oil, pennies on the gallon to tax the oil, etc. All those pennies add up to at least 100 too many at the pump. :bang:
But the point is to 'Reduce America’s Dependence on Foreign Oil’. And take the world’s energy supply out of the hands of radical terrorists. So who cares if its ‘greener’? If it works, its a step in the right direction. :nod: