Family Enduro Series - Class Structure?
- Thread starter Smit-Dog
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- Oct 28, 2001
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- #27
Like it...fatherandson said:
For kicks, here are the top 45 overall for the 12-15 class (only those that earned points).
Even if we do break out into 12-13 and 14-15, we'll likely end up with two, 50+ rider classes... and I suspect that this will grow next year.
On the subject of trophies, we may want to consider not handing out trophies to every participant.
Lots of great comments and suggestions here! Most of my thoughts have already been expressed.
But heres my 2 cents :blah: . I like prop#1, it helps split up the 12-15 age group and splits 2st and 4st. My only concern would be having low participation in some classes. Looking at the numbers from 2006, things seemed fairly equal (in the 20s), with a couple of exceptions.
I like the 12 & 18mph casts. With the exception of Leetsville, 18mph was always very challenging for us.
The time keeping can be kind of intimidating for first timers (was for me---still is for me) but once you're behind (18mph) it doesn't matter. Restart format maybe?
I don't know how you manage to skirt AMA and Dist. 14 membership, but I believe it makes this the easiest and least expensive form of motorsports for minors. It is very family oriented and friendly :cool: .
KDX633: we missed you at the Mini Moose. It was a very nice event!
Smit dog, Fatherandson, I appericiate the effort you and others put into this series. I think it's great, if there is ever anything I can do to help out please let me know(gave most of my MC trophies to the Boy Scouts years ago, havent gotten any since).
Thanks again RUSS
But heres my 2 cents :blah: . I like prop#1, it helps split up the 12-15 age group and splits 2st and 4st. My only concern would be having low participation in some classes. Looking at the numbers from 2006, things seemed fairly equal (in the 20s), with a couple of exceptions.
I like the 12 & 18mph casts. With the exception of Leetsville, 18mph was always very challenging for us.
The time keeping can be kind of intimidating for first timers (was for me---still is for me) but once you're behind (18mph) it doesn't matter. Restart format maybe?
I don't know how you manage to skirt AMA and Dist. 14 membership, but I believe it makes this the easiest and least expensive form of motorsports for minors. It is very family oriented and friendly :cool: .
KDX633: we missed you at the Mini Moose. It was a very nice event!
Smit dog, Fatherandson, I appericiate the effort you and others put into this series. I think it's great, if there is ever anything I can do to help out please let me know(gave most of my MC trophies to the Boy Scouts years ago, havent gotten any since).
Thanks again RUSS
Smit-Dog,
Finally found time to solicit Mike on your proposals. He likes proposal # 1 the best. He thinks 2 stroke and 4 stroke should be split. As he puts it his "TTR-125 weighs the same as a 144SX yet has 30 less HP... not to mention suspension."
He suggested the following very slight changes to the age structure:
age 4 - 6
age 7 - 8
age 9-10 2T
age 9-10 4T
(grade school)
-------------
age 11-13 2T
age 11-13 4T
(middle school 6th-8th)
-------------
age 14-17 2T
age 14-17 4T
(high school 9th-12th)
He also said "maybe there should be a class for grandpa - 60+ or 65+ or 70+..."
thanks for the very well thought out proposals Smit-Dog.
p.s. any merit to having a vintage class?
Finally found time to solicit Mike on your proposals. He likes proposal # 1 the best. He thinks 2 stroke and 4 stroke should be split. As he puts it his "TTR-125 weighs the same as a 144SX yet has 30 less HP... not to mention suspension."
He suggested the following very slight changes to the age structure:
age 4 - 6
age 7 - 8
age 9-10 2T
age 9-10 4T
(grade school)
-------------
age 11-13 2T
age 11-13 4T
(middle school 6th-8th)
-------------
age 14-17 2T
age 14-17 4T
(high school 9th-12th)
He also said "maybe there should be a class for grandpa - 60+ or 65+ or 70+..."
thanks for the very well thought out proposals Smit-Dog.
p.s. any merit to having a vintage class?
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The 2t-4t break out is a good idea given the performance characteristics.The pw 80, jr/ds 80 are popular in the fes and although they are 2t's they do'nt quite compare with a kx,rm.
maybe they could also be included in the 4t category with the ttr's,xr's and such using the oil injection angle.that way a kid on a pw 80 could ride in a class that was suitable to the bike that a kid on a kx/rm 80 could not.
maybe they could also be included in the 4t category with the ttr's,xr's and such using the oil injection angle.that way a kid on a pw 80 could ride in a class that was suitable to the bike that a kid on a kx/rm 80 could not.
- Feb 3, 2001
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I am open to making some changes in the classes for the FES, but we have to be careful of too many classes or too confusing for the sign up people to place people in the correct class.
I agree that it is a disadvantage for a 12 year old to compete with a 15 yo. I understand the comments about 2S vs 4S, but we are not going to be able to accomodate every situation.
I agree that it is a disadvantage for a 12 year old to compete with a 15 yo. I understand the comments about 2S vs 4S, but we are not going to be able to accomodate every situation.
- Feb 3, 2001
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70's and 80's...he was one funny guy and very fast in the woods.
D.LEATHERS
Member
- Jun 28, 2002
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Father And Son,
Mike I Know There Have Been A Bunch Of Comments & Suggestions About The F.e.s. And As Always I Look At Both Sides, As A Promoter And A Rider. My Typing Skills Leave A Lot To Be Desired, Therefore I Tend To Like To Talk Rather Than Type. Ilook Forward To Hopefully Discussing This Subject With You And Other Drn Members Around A Big Jackpine Campfire At Trail Fest. See-ya Soon At Lmc.
Dave L.
Mike I Know There Have Been A Bunch Of Comments & Suggestions About The F.e.s. And As Always I Look At Both Sides, As A Promoter And A Rider. My Typing Skills Leave A Lot To Be Desired, Therefore I Tend To Like To Talk Rather Than Type. Ilook Forward To Hopefully Discussing This Subject With You And Other Drn Members Around A Big Jackpine Campfire At Trail Fest. See-ya Soon At Lmc.
Dave L.
My wife, son (9yrs old), and I competed in four events this year and had a great time. I like the idea of breaking the classes down more by age, but for the 9-11 yr olds I wouldn't separate 2st and 4st. I don't think there would be enough entries in each class. This year in the 9-11 yr, 81-125cc class there were 6-10 entries each race. Most of the bikes were 85 2 strokes or 100-125 4 strokes. Success in the woods, at that age, has more to do with rider ability than which bike the kids are riding. My son rode a 1998 xr100 in all the events and had 2-1st and 2-2nd place finishes. If the class had been separated 2st and 4st we would of only competed against 2 or 3 bikes all year instead of 6-10. If you look, the Woodward girls also both won their respective classes this year on 4st trail bikes, (ttr 125 and crf 230). I agree with the argument that there is a big difference in suspension and motor on some 2st and 4st. But in the tight stuff the usable difference can become negligable. Just would hate to see class sizes suffer too much.
This is a great series you guys have put together and we have had a riot as a family. We are already looking forward to next year, thanks for all your hard work.
This is a great series you guys have put together and we have had a riot as a family. We are already looking forward to next year, thanks for all your hard work.
- Feb 3, 2001
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I am guessing gade600 is Austin's dad...
Congratulations to Austin - first place. He will be invited to the banquet in November. Your wife and Mrs. S. were in a very competitive class. ET won the class, but it was a battle. The top three in each class will be receiving awards and recognition in November.
I hope your family can make it to the banquet.
P.S. I do agree with your comments on the FES classes. There is a saying....80% rider...20% bike and I think it applies to our Saturday and Sunday events.
Congratulations to Austin - first place. He will be invited to the banquet in November. Your wife and Mrs. S. were in a very competitive class. ET won the class, but it was a battle. The top three in each class will be receiving awards and recognition in November.
I hope your family can make it to the banquet.
P.S. I do agree with your comments on the FES classes. There is a saying....80% rider...20% bike and I think it applies to our Saturday and Sunday events.
Your right Mike, it is me, Rick Handrich. Austin is my son and we look forward to the banquet in November.
Like I said, we had a lot of fun participating this year and learned a ton about enduros, including timekeeping, strategy, riding techniques, etc., met some really good people and enjoyed some great trails in the process. Couldn't ask for a better way to get involved in the enduro racing.
Like I said, we had a lot of fun participating this year and learned a ton about enduros, including timekeeping, strategy, riding techniques, etc., met some really good people and enjoyed some great trails in the process. Couldn't ask for a better way to get involved in the enduro racing.
- Oct 28, 2001
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- Thread starter
- #42
What would be your guess as to the number of girls in the 9-11 year old class (both displacement classes)? Trying to determine if there'd be enough riders to justify a 9-11 girls class.gade600 said:
EDIT: I just answered my own question - zero. And out of the very small 11-15 girls class, the number of 11 year olds (if any) wouldn't justify the class.
As far as trophies, what do you guys (and gals!) think about limiting it to top x% of riders for each class (similar to D-14 rules)? In looking at the number of class entrants at some events, this percentage factor would need a cap. For example, award trophies to top 50% of riders, with a max of 5th place (rounding up on odd-sized classes).
For reference, take a look at the modified points standings below. I've added the number of entrants per class, per event, along with average entrants per class. So what sized classes are we shooting for per event? 10-20 riders sound about right?
Based on this, I don't think I'd recommend breaking out the 4-8 into two classes of 4-6 and 7-8; I'd go with possibly a single 4-8 class. Same goes for a single 9-11 year old class.
The 12-15 bracket I'd still break out into a 12-13 and 14-15 class.
The 4 "adult" classes I'm now thinking may be too many classes, and depending where the median is for this group, we may end up with smaller class sizes than we thought. Take a look at the event entry counts for the 16+ classes and let me know what you think. The summer Pine Cone counts really skew this class!
Based on these counts and other feedback, I've come up with a proposal #4... Discuss among yourselves! :blah:
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Smit-Dog said:
NO, I think the kids need to be encoraged and those trophys really go a long way. It's fantastic to see them ALL smile. I don't think we need to get too hung up on too many classes either. Just make separation that keeps it reasonably fair but again it's 80 % rider and 20% bike.
Erin just started riding from square 1 in a back yard in October of 2002. She won her class in 2004, 2005 and now 2006. On an XR 100. Nathan Started riding in 2002 and has been near the top since the series started.
We can't be moto Dads here, let the kids ride they have fun and what happens happens.
Wolverine423
~SPONSOR~
- Oct 2, 2005
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We can't be moto Dads here, let the kids ride they have fun and what happens happens.[/QUOTE]
No Shizz! Moto dads are annoying.
DW
No Shizz! Moto dads are annoying.
DW
- Feb 3, 2001
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Bill, I still like proposal # 3 after we remove the 9-11 girls class. As noted, not enough participants. Also, I am not in favor of limiting the trophies in the classes with riders 15 years old and younger. There have been a number of times that I have convinced a dad and his kid to stick around for the trophy presentation. Well, he/she did not finish, why stick around? Wait and see!! The look on the kids faces makes all of the work worthwhile!
I would encourage any rider (especially the A/AA riders) to consider donating their old trophies to a club. LMC and the Sandstormers both use donated trophies for the FES. Jeff Fredette did something unique....anyone who donated 7 trophies (limited to the first 10 people) to his FES event received a complimentary entry fee to the Sand Goblin. Great idea!!
I would encourage any rider (especially the A/AA riders) to consider donating their old trophies to a club. LMC and the Sandstormers both use donated trophies for the FES. Jeff Fredette did something unique....anyone who donated 7 trophies (limited to the first 10 people) to his FES event received a complimentary entry fee to the Sand Goblin. Great idea!!
Wolverine423
~SPONSOR~
- Oct 2, 2005
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I would encourage any rider (especially the A/AA riders) to consider donating their old trophies to a club. LMC and the Sandstormers both use donated trophies for the FES. Jeff Fredette did something unique....anyone who donated 7 trophies (limited to the first 10 people) to his FES event received a complimentary entry fee to the Sand Goblin. Great idea!![/QUOTE]
Trophys = entree fee for Jack Pine?....
DW
Trophys = entree fee for Jack Pine?....
DW
- Feb 3, 2001
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QUOTE]
Trophys = entree fee for Jack Pine?....
DW[/QUOTE]
DW - I doubt it. I will have to show you the back room of the LMC lodge. We have a lot of donated trophies and will never turn away more donations.
Trophys = entree fee for Jack Pine?....
DW[/QUOTE]
DW - I doubt it. I will have to show you the back room of the LMC lodge. We have a lot of donated trophies and will never turn away more donations.
- Oct 28, 2001
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- Thread starter
- #49
I received a couple boxes of trophy donations from MRAN last year, and I'll see if I can get another couple boxes this fall. These are mostly unclaimed trophies, so are in pretty good shape.
So should we just leave it up to the clubs to determine the number of trophies they want to hand out?
So should we just leave it up to the clubs to determine the number of trophies they want to hand out?
