89kdx200rdr
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- Apr 19, 2003
- 488
- 0
standard chains rock. o rings have too much drag.
Gearing Down a KDX 220
- Thread starter Instaurare
- Start date
Braahp,
I certainly can't speak for Rich, but for myself I see this forum as a place to trade information. Some have knowledge about certain subjects and are happy to share that knowledge with others. In return they can also gain knowledge about other aspects of our sport from members who can offer it up.
I think I know a little bit about the subject at hand and I am only offering up what I can for the benifit of other members. I have gained lightyears of knowledge for myself from many other members on this board.
The problem I am faced with sometimes is that when a person offers up information that I know to be false, or perhaps a bit "off", I will not hesitate to either corret it or enter into a debate about it. Many will post their opinion on a product or method simply because they own the product or have never seen or used another product or method. They may well not have a clue as to other products or methods, they simply share their anecdotal experience as if it were the only way. And to their mind, it probably is the only way.
If I offer up something and a member wants to shoot holes in it, then I welcome that. Let the holes appear where they may. I will be the first to concede if I'm shown to be wrong.
Others, once a good sized hole has been shot through their thin advise, they get very defensive...to a point of continuing a grudge and sending nasty e-mails, hounding others posting's, blatent lies, etc....
I lose no sleep over loosers or crybabies.
I certainly can't speak for Rich, but for myself I see this forum as a place to trade information. Some have knowledge about certain subjects and are happy to share that knowledge with others. In return they can also gain knowledge about other aspects of our sport from members who can offer it up.
I think I know a little bit about the subject at hand and I am only offering up what I can for the benifit of other members. I have gained lightyears of knowledge for myself from many other members on this board.
The problem I am faced with sometimes is that when a person offers up information that I know to be false, or perhaps a bit "off", I will not hesitate to either corret it or enter into a debate about it. Many will post their opinion on a product or method simply because they own the product or have never seen or used another product or method. They may well not have a clue as to other products or methods, they simply share their anecdotal experience as if it were the only way. And to their mind, it probably is the only way.
If I offer up something and a member wants to shoot holes in it, then I welcome that. Let the holes appear where they may. I will be the first to concede if I'm shown to be wrong.
Others, once a good sized hole has been shot through their thin advise, they get very defensive...to a point of continuing a grudge and sending nasty e-mails, hounding others posting's, blatent lies, etc....
I lose no sleep over loosers or crybabies.
Jaybird,
I'll make this REAL simple for you, and for anyone else out there who has troubles dealing with my posts:
At the bottom of my post here is a clickable link, "Profile" Click on it and my profile will come up. At the bottom of that page is another clickable link labled " Add to ignore list" Click that one and you will never be bothered by my postings again. With that said, Please quit slandering my username by your childish spellings. They only demonstrate to everyone how deeply I have struck your nerve by challengeing your motives here.
A note to everyone sending me PM's thanking me for standing up to this type of one note samba we are constantly baraged with from Jaybird anytime a thread starts on chains and sprockets, you are welcome.
I'll make this REAL simple for you, and for anyone else out there who has troubles dealing with my posts:
At the bottom of my post here is a clickable link, "Profile" Click on it and my profile will come up. At the bottom of that page is another clickable link labled " Add to ignore list" Click that one and you will never be bothered by my postings again. With that said, Please quit slandering my username by your childish spellings. They only demonstrate to everyone how deeply I have struck your nerve by challengeing your motives here.
A note to everyone sending me PM's thanking me for standing up to this type of one note samba we are constantly baraged with from Jaybird anytime a thread starts on chains and sprockets, you are welcome.
My personal experience on both street and dirt is that an oring will out last a non oring. The design of an oring will have the outerplates in noncontact with the inner bushings IE less wear.Dirt or better described as abrasives will chew anywhere where there is metal to metal contact.Having one less area to wear will lengthen the life of a chain.Orings also will run cooler because of the internal grease and less metal to metal contact.Orings do have to be maintained, some use WD40 some use chain lube, some say leave it alone.
I can only give my experience and that of highly trained engineers who have developed the oring.Much of this info can be seen on websites in the development of chains.
I have yet to see anyone in competition in both street and dirt not use an oring.If you have luck with non oring great!
Smaller CS have a higher critical angle and less area to carry the load and wear out faster and wear chains out faster.
One thing we all agree on is changing chains is a hassle, so is paying for one.
I can only give my experience and that of highly trained engineers who have developed the oring.Much of this info can be seen on websites in the development of chains.
I have yet to see anyone in competition in both street and dirt not use an oring.If you have luck with non oring great!
Smaller CS have a higher critical angle and less area to carry the load and wear out faster and wear chains out faster.
One thing we all agree on is changing chains is a hassle, so is paying for one.
Very Good SKIPRO3 this JAYBIRD is very Ruded in deed Does anybody have a B-B Gun to Down this Bird of a feather, And also MY Pride and Joy Has between 8 1/2 to 9 thousen MILES of HAIR-SCRAMBLES a FEW GNCC RACES, BEEN a B-rider for many years, AND MY SO CALLED WORE OUT CHANGE IS VERY MUCH ALIVE. The 11 will wear faster than a 12, But if the teraine is MUD-MUCK-SLIME -GREASEY BULLTALARD CLAY-GRIT-SANDWASH-ROCK-MINES-ROOTS to boot, they will all wear out IF the INEXPEARINCE Justs sits there and spins his wheels off and not get power to the ground. YOU SCIENCE May work in the so-called perfect world you may live in, I think you spend to much time on books and not enough time RIDING or Racing to have FUN, SO if anyone is not shure about there chaine & sprockets Just replace them once a year and foreget it and RIDE-RIDE-RIDE and no more cry-baby's . P.S. and I still have not done a top-end job still pushing a 145 psi, I guess I did that wrong to. May-be its the oil I use. Thats another topic you can debate about. Sorry about any spelling errors I'm out of here to go Do some RIDING. Now were is that Mud Race.
levert,
Just who are these highly trained engineers you speak of that designed the o-riung chain?
I sure hope they aren;t the ones that told you that keeping the side plates from contacting the bushings will lesson wear. It just aint so.
The elongation you experience from wear is from the pin/bushing area, and the bushing/roller area. The contacting of the sideplates with other side plates or bushings is a moot point when it comes to elongation of the chain pitch.
Also, only if you do not lube your chain, will you experience metal to metal contact that would elongate pitch. If the chain has sufficient lubrication, be it a wet film or a solid type lubricant, there is protection the same as what the sealed o-ring provides. Some lubes do a better job at continuing to work than others. If you feel that chainging your chain is a hassle, then I suggest you find a mechainic to do your first top end.
dixie, I may seem rude to you, but I can accept that. I come here and offer good advise and get shot at by you and your bird hunters. That's fine with me, I consider the sources.
Take levert for example, he comes here with information that he claims comes from engineers, when I happen to know for a fact that his information is not valid. (btw...reading the box of a chain and taking it out of context is hardly passing on good engineering info) Now, am I rude for challenging his bad info? To you, maybe yes...but I see it as a nesssesity when dealing with the less than learned.
Just who are these highly trained engineers you speak of that designed the o-riung chain?
I sure hope they aren;t the ones that told you that keeping the side plates from contacting the bushings will lesson wear. It just aint so.
The elongation you experience from wear is from the pin/bushing area, and the bushing/roller area. The contacting of the sideplates with other side plates or bushings is a moot point when it comes to elongation of the chain pitch.
Also, only if you do not lube your chain, will you experience metal to metal contact that would elongate pitch. If the chain has sufficient lubrication, be it a wet film or a solid type lubricant, there is protection the same as what the sealed o-ring provides. Some lubes do a better job at continuing to work than others. If you feel that chainging your chain is a hassle, then I suggest you find a mechainic to do your first top end.
dixie, I may seem rude to you, but I can accept that. I come here and offer good advise and get shot at by you and your bird hunters. That's fine with me, I consider the sources.
Take levert for example, he comes here with information that he claims comes from engineers, when I happen to know for a fact that his information is not valid. (btw...reading the box of a chain and taking it out of context is hardly passing on good engineering info) Now, am I rude for challenging his bad info? To you, maybe yes...but I see it as a nesssesity when dealing with the less than learned.
Jay,
My opinion is my opinion, nothing more.I don't see why you are being so defensive, we share info here and learn, people can read and decide for themselves which advice to take.
One of my major clients is Tsubaki, that is where my info comes from.
Coming on a forum and just being plain rude says something about the individual.In future I will just ignore your posts, I don't think the information gathered on this site will suffer without your input.
Levert
My opinion is my opinion, nothing more.I don't see why you are being so defensive, we share info here and learn, people can read and decide for themselves which advice to take.
One of my major clients is Tsubaki, that is where my info comes from.
Coming on a forum and just being plain rude says something about the individual.In future I will just ignore your posts, I don't think the information gathered on this site will suffer without your input.
Levert
Jaybo, nothing personal, but if you think o-ring and standart chains are the same you never took a nice long ride on a rainy and muddy trail.
In the real world, most people will neglect proper chain maintenance, at one time or another.
In the real world, an o-ring will outlast a standart chain. It's a fact, plain and simple and to deny that is to refuse to face the truth.
Have you ever stop to think why would major manufacturers go through the trouble and extra expense of painstakingly fitting their chains with little rubber things if it wasn't an improvement over the standart one?
Maybe you know more then them and the rest of us, but then again, maybe not!
Cheers,
Bigpa
In the real world, most people will neglect proper chain maintenance, at one time or another.
In the real world, an o-ring will outlast a standart chain. It's a fact, plain and simple and to deny that is to refuse to face the truth.
Have you ever stop to think why would major manufacturers go through the trouble and extra expense of painstakingly fitting their chains with little rubber things if it wasn't an improvement over the standart one?
Maybe you know more then them and the rest of us, but then again, maybe not!
Cheers,
Bigpa
levert, you offered information claiming to be in part from "highly trained engineers that developed the o-ring". Your info is flawed. If it's rude to correct or take exception to that, then so be it. Is it worse for me to go indepth on an issue, or for you to pop in with info that is not correct and then give reference for the info..which is also not correct. You say people can read and decide for themsleves...and I agree, but what's your point in this thread? I assure you Tsubaki didn't give you the information you posted. Perhaps you were just confused. In any event I am very sorry I hurt your feelings.
bigpa,
I advocate the use of ring chains. If you do a search you will find that I often times have mentioned the best case scenario would be to run a standard chain most of the time, but when you encounter a slop ride, you should mount up your ring chain.
I know folks don't maintain their drive systems properly, or at least a very small percentage of riders do. However, I can offer some info that allows those who DO want to follow proper maintenance for all aspects of their machine. Folks can take it or leave it. Some wait till the third blue moon before it dawns on them that they may want to change their oil in the future. Some change it out every ride or two. There are some here that can post information here that discusses the pro's and con's of oil change frequency. If someone posts saying that; "changing oil is stupid...most folks won't do it anyway...it's a waste of time and I'd rather RIDE RIDE RIDE"...do you think it valid for someone to shoot down those sort of comments? Would I be rude or obnoxious to strike up a debate with the individual who posted such nonsense? Most people wouldn't think it at all out of place to argue with the guy...most know the importance of good motor maintenance. Why is it when chain and sprocket maintenance are discussed, it's just tabooed?
Now back on topic....
I know for a fact that the standard chain and the ring chain are the very same animal except that the ring chain has o-rings placed between the outer and inner plates around the pins.
The real fact is that a standard can outlast a ring chain. There are several reasons for this, and I suggest a search if you in the least interested on why.
But I will give the main reason now....a ring chain has a limited life due to the fact that you cannot replentish the protective lubricant after it has been consumed. You can continue to run a standard chain past the life of a ring becasue you can always replentish the protective lubricant.
bigpa,
I advocate the use of ring chains. If you do a search you will find that I often times have mentioned the best case scenario would be to run a standard chain most of the time, but when you encounter a slop ride, you should mount up your ring chain.
I know folks don't maintain their drive systems properly, or at least a very small percentage of riders do. However, I can offer some info that allows those who DO want to follow proper maintenance for all aspects of their machine. Folks can take it or leave it. Some wait till the third blue moon before it dawns on them that they may want to change their oil in the future. Some change it out every ride or two. There are some here that can post information here that discusses the pro's and con's of oil change frequency. If someone posts saying that; "changing oil is stupid...most folks won't do it anyway...it's a waste of time and I'd rather RIDE RIDE RIDE"...do you think it valid for someone to shoot down those sort of comments? Would I be rude or obnoxious to strike up a debate with the individual who posted such nonsense? Most people wouldn't think it at all out of place to argue with the guy...most know the importance of good motor maintenance. Why is it when chain and sprocket maintenance are discussed, it's just tabooed?
Now back on topic....
I know for a fact that the standard chain and the ring chain are the very same animal except that the ring chain has o-rings placed between the outer and inner plates around the pins.
The real fact is that a standard can outlast a ring chain. There are several reasons for this, and I suggest a search if you in the least interested on why.
But I will give the main reason now....a ring chain has a limited life due to the fact that you cannot replentish the protective lubricant after it has been consumed. You can continue to run a standard chain past the life of a ring becasue you can always replentish the protective lubricant.
