Green Sticker 200EXC vs. NEW 250F/450F??

[xTYBALTx]

I've been riding my KDX220 and YZ125 for a few years now, will no longer be hitting the MX track so likely the YZ125 will go - but that's a seperate issue. Anywho, I want something with better suspension and just better than the 220KDX, will likely keep that sucker around for friends and family to ride.

Of course, I'm in California, so things get more complex. I'm trying to decide between a green sticker 200EXC - '02 or '01 - and a brand new four stroke - presumably a 250F or 450F. I am more than willing to put brand new top end, low end, and clutch in an old bike, to have the suspension jiffied up, and try to get it back to being reliable and nice and enjoyable. But new bikes are pretty cool too ;)

My riding style is actually fairly conservative, but I want to be able to be able to lift the front wheel at will, riding the 220 has gotten me used to a certain level of on demand torque. My heart loves twisting nasty trails but the selection in SoCal is more open. Basically any bike I get must be capable of hitting the twisty trails foremost whilst still being capable in the desert.

I am not very maintainence friendly, like to do as little as humanly possible. I don't like maintainence. I'm 5'11", 150lbs, and as I mentioned above am not really an "aggressive" rider but need to be able to climb any obstacle and lift the front wheel in a jiffy.

I've been mentally going back and forth between the 200EXC and thumpers for months, still haven't pulled the trigger, so someone please give me a nudge!

 

[mtk]

A friend of mine absolutely loves the KTM 200's and he's a big-time woods GNCC-type rider. Almost all the power of a 250 in a bike that barely weighs more than a 125. If you were happy with your KDX220 I'm pretty confident you'll be OK with the power of the KTM200.

Maintenance wise it is a no-brainer: just say no to camshafts.

 

[xTYBALTx]

Very tempting... but do you think I could keep an '02 or '01 running alright? If I replaced top and bottom end and the clutch would it be good to go for a while? Is there anything I can do to the suspension to bring it back to niceness?

 

[mtk]

Every part of an '01-02 model can be rebuilt to be factory new. Engine, transmission, suspension, all of it.

 

[COMBEN]

..you may find this a little useful if want alternative food for thought

Hi, I posted this when I bought my gasser coming from a 220R, it will give you something to read if nothing else ;)

Hi all,
I thought that they may be others than myself who wondered what life wood be like after their iconic KDX, and have thoughts about next bikes ownership and would welcome gasgas comments from a ex-KDX owner and still big time fan, this site was great to help to me so I thought I would at least chime back in, with this if it helps anyone.

From 1300 mile '03 KDX-220R to 10 hour '06 EC-200:-

1st impressions: Ok, looking over the bike some will mention that the gasser has an excentric mix of fasteners until you realise the threads are the same, but they use smaller heads when they can, I suppose the reckoning (must cost more for a less common fitting?) is to save weight and this is one area you notice straightway, the EC-200 is a lot lighter, and the weight is carried low which helps even more. Climb on the bike and the seat height is lower and the rear doesn't sink as much, so not so much difference between unload v loaded height. Controls fall easy to hand and foot and the cockpit area is compact but not cramped to my 5'10" frame, she is very slim as well.
Build quality...there are some very nice touches like the fuel tank which is see thru with litres left marked on the side, nothing 'sticks out' from the bike but the coil pack is oddly mounted on the side of the tank and can get wet in a crossing...but any bikes coil would get wet but with this one at least you can access to dry it out!

They come fat on the jetting and you need to fit a new pilot jet from 52 to 45, drop the needle one clip, 175 main or you won't get a decent idle, which is never as good as my 220R was, but more highly strung, can't have it both ways!
The side stand is a self-retracting job with a spring action like a poachers trap and is not as secure when down as the 220R which had a bigger 'footprint'.

Gasser are the kings of the parasites, look at what others do and go the same same way if it works well, frame is kawasaki'ish, engine very Honda'ish (even the conrod is the same), rear end is Kawasaki'ish but better sealing for bearings with Ohlins shocker, front end is Marzocchi Shiver, chain kit is KTM'ish etc.

2/ Riding, on the road suspension can seem a little hard, but very nimble with good low end for pootling around, not as comfy as the KDX , which would now feel more like you are sitting in the bike, the EC has more of a 'race ready' feel, noticeably far noiser, at idle and very noisy when on the powervalve, a little less grunty after the 220R, wider gearbox gearing so less buzy at speed. Ohh, the headlight is a Halogen unit and very very good at night, with brake lights on front and back brakes, decent horn and very tidy indicators (blinkers) and a digital speedo head/rev counter with trip computor stuff

3/ Off-road...my idea of off-road is hare and hounds and 1st time out yesterday, a mix of real tight woods, just wide enough for one bike that 'cut up' real bad deep ruts with exposed roots everywhere, and flat out 5/6th gear flowing, but undulating sections.......... here things get very different!
I thought the gasser would beat me up with the harder suspension but the after 3 hours I still real fresh, why, well the gasser is a revelation in the ride quality/handling department and you don't notice the bumps so much, she can jump easier, and flat out whoops that would scared me senseless on the KDX just aren't an issue..you keep gassing her more.
The turning at slow speed woodsy bits is super quick and very predictable but not nervous like a KTM, it seems they have it spot on, fast or slow, no headshake on flat out parts...I can't explain how much confidence this ride quality gives, I could steer with the front, or if the front wasn't on terra firma then the rear could be steered using the throttle, she made a hero out of a average/poor rider. A very very forgiving bike to ride and hard to get out of shape.

Fuel consumption, I went onto reserve on the last lap, so in the same region as the KDX has a large tank. Seat comfort was surprising, feels real firm (like a BMW car seat) but was very comfy, my butt feels no worse than normal (I know I have been riding!) but should be worse the way I hitting the corners sitting down?

Weight: Now after 2.5 hours racing, I don't care how fit you are you are getting a 'lil tired, I was going up a real hard climb and had everyones nightmare on a real hard 'once only chance' hill.... to stop half-way up for WR-250 mounted guy who couldn't get any traction (is it me or am I always seeing WR-250's struggling on hills with poor grip?). Anyway, swore at the guy at 4 strokes in general (too loud to hear had to stop, pull the bike back around by hand and straightaway noticed the difference between this now burden and my KDX, got her on the hill facing the right way, dropped the clutch and she hooked up so well the front was up and away, left, right, straight on but climbing all the same, this was always a point I liked on my KDX, the ability to 'hook-up' where others struggled like 'Bambi on ice', could be the long'ish swing arms that are common to both bikes?

Brakes are Honda fit Nissins so as excellent as the KDX

Clutch: Hydraulic so easy and no adjustments needed, even after extreme fanning

Engine, once jetted on 50:1, pulls clean everywhere, maybe missing some low end grunt ( NB now she is jetted right this is no longer the case, she can crawl up rocky climbs in 3rd gear no sweat and has more torque than my 220R ever did...I raced the same HnH course at the weekend on my EC-200 as I did with my 220R and the climbs were far easier even in horrible slippery conditions: Richard) , but has more of a sudden hit that sounds far worse because when she comes 'on pipe' the sound changes so much (NB again, change this as I have the dual map ignition so I get full power hit or rain mode soft hit mapping:Richard) , but really she is quite docile when needed and faster on the top end than my 220R was...I thought the gasser was SLOWER at first, but this because the newer suspension spec' makes it feel so much slower.

Superlative HnH bike, for trail riding, I don't know yet honestly, I'm off to Wales in few weeks so will know for sure? (NB, she was great, even thru deep water crossings and lots of roadwork between sections: Richard)

Bad points: Self-retracting side stand, Husky, KTM the same I think? No fender bum bag, and I kept getting my right boot caught somewhere...need to see what I'm doing here. No, front tyre locking grip thing, the fact that you need some odd size metric spanners spanners (11mm), not the quietest bike but the KDX was whipser quiet, the front fork tube covers are Honda CR and rub against the Shiver's stauntions, this will get worse so I need to look into this before I damage something, wiring could be a little tidier in places (around the headlight area) sort of like a 90's jap bike in this respect........ that's about it really...no grumbles, race/road ready, take your pick, just a few niggles.

For the KDX guys, gasser may make a good choice after the KDX (more a KDX-200 replacement than a 220 to be honest) or if you just want 2 stroke and can't get on with a KTM.

The gasgas support is good with great forums, and the company website allows downloading of manuals for use, setting up, parts assemblies and 'how to' and the UK dealers seem very 'up to speed' and some even ride gassers at the weekends, try Steve at Ripping Motors and Dave at BikeTech. I have spoken with a lot of gasser owners and blown engines/gearboxes seem very rare and only with 'someone elses' bike if you know what I mean, so hopefully KDX durability?

Any questions let me know, do my best to answer, and I hope this helps someone in the future.

Ohh, and now a few of my mates had their bikes stolen last night, you may apphreciate they have a steering lock :nod:

Ohhhhh, and for what it's worth 2, if you like torque, the EC-200 has more torque and more bhp than a 250 Husky....I saw a as tested UK dyno power and torque curve for both...but then a Husky 250F isn't on your list.... but is one of the better 250F's so I'm told........
cheers

 

[xTYBALTx]

Very much appreciate the info Comben, looks like you were just as happy with the new bike as I hope to be with mine. Unfortunately Gassers aren't an option for me, with CA's crazy regulations and all.

Thank you very much for the info everyone.

 

[wheelie man]

Four strokes are harder to work on and cost more in parts (engine wise). :nener: